13 replies to this topic

[m]

Hello everyone

The game mode I am suggesting is a game mode that;


a ) Is for implementation within Quick Play

b ) Is similar to the design of a Conquest and Assault Match



How the Invasion Mode would work is like this;

1) We would each choose whatever mech we want as the drop type would not matter.

2) Each of us would click 'Quick Play'

3) One Lance, at a time, would drop to a map every 2 minutes and 30 seconds by default where they would have to secure a landing site (Capture time is 15 seconds. Similar to capturing a resource node or a base)

4) There would be many landing sites (upwards to 10 or 20) in different locations for strategic purposes which, when captured (at a maximum of 5 sites), would decrease the Lance Invasion time by half on every new location captured, from t-2min:30sec, to t-1min:15sec, to t-37.5sec, to t-18.75sec, to t-9.375sec.

5) The sites, once fully captured, will show up on a map as permanently captured. They will not show up while in the process of being captured, like Assault or Conquest.

6) As soon as a landing site is captured the next 4 Lance pilots in Queue after clicking 'Quick Play' will drop to one of the drop sites chosen at random that was permanently captured.

7) If there are no remaining teammates on the battlefield but there are Lance Pilots in Queue, any landing site will be used, and the Lance Pilots will immediately drop

8) To win the match you would have to destroy all 12 enemy mechs


I think this Invasion Mode is the way forward with this game as it is similar, but not entirely the same, to a wave-type reinforcement set-up on typical FPS games.



Thanks for your time everyone. Please vote and discuss below why you voted how you had.

Edited by m, 01 May 2016 - 02:02 PM.

[SirNotlag]

great minds must think alike, someone came out with practically the same idea awhile back. Theirs ended up changing so the final idea was a little different, everyone got 2 mechs and the attackers couldn't spawn their second ones unless they had secured a LZ. Victory conditions for defenders were to simply eliminate all attackers, while attackers had targets spread across the map they had to destroy. Defenders would always win on time outs.

Personally I like that idea better because I just don't like the thought of a game mode that forces people to wait to play. I know you said the next pilots in qeue would be the ones to drop but the match maker doesn't work like that, and would probably take a lot of effort to make it work like that so I don't think your idea is currently possible. or possible in the near future.

Edited by SirNotlag, 01 August 2015 - 04:56 AM.

[OmegaRed53]

Hmm the possibly of using scouting units not mechs but one squad of mech till capture point could fix the issue of leftover players. In other words, there could be a variation of either one squad of primary mechs (randomized) till they capture the first point, then another squad can enter. The rest can choose to wait till other capture point or join in scouting hover tanks/ vehicles. The need to reward players playing as a hovercraft should be a bonus extra hazard pay plus maybe a new list of warfare and customization?

[m]

SirNotlag, on 01 August 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

great minds must think alike, someone came out with practically the same idea awhile back.

Can you provide a link so we can have a look at their format? We could possibly merge ideas for the betterment of the community.

I mentioned something to this effect in the original forums before voting worked back then (everything was temperamental). I pulled it from the forums back then because it was pointless to have something, both before Community Warfare was implemented, which PGI had discussed an "Invasion" scenario, and obviously the forums were being perfected.

SirNotlag, on 01 August 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

Theirs ended up changing so the final idea was a little different, everyone got 2 mechs and the attackers couldn't spawn their second ones unless they had secured a LZ. Victory conditions for defenders were to simply eliminate all attackers, while attackers had targets spread across the map they had to destroy. Defenders would always win on time outs.

Personally I like that idea better because I just don't like the thought of a game mode that forces people to wait to play. I know you said the next pilots in qeue would be the ones to drop but the match maker doesn't work like that, and would probably take a lot of effort to make it work like that so I don't think your idea is currently possible. or possible in the near future.

That sounds like a completely different game altogether.

This Standard Match Mode I proposed has nothing to do with each player having multiple mechs. It's a typical 1 mech per player, 4 mech lance setup. Only difference is that the battlefield is dynamic with no Ready button and we are slung into the match as soon as we connect.

We would see dropships fly in across the battlefield to different locations and we would use the entirety of the map as opposed to select locales like we do now. There are so many positives with this for immersion.

OmegaRed53, on 01 August 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Hmm the possibly of using scouting units not mechs but one squad of mech till capture point could fix the issue of leftover players.

Well there is no issue with leftover players.

If for some reason the first lance of one team decides to not care about securing another landing site to reduce Invasion/Reinforcement time by half and gets wiped out, the next queued 4 players waiting to connect will drop immediately to any landing site. The same would happen if the next Lance Invasion/Reinforcement/Wave ignores securing a landing site again and is wiped. The idea here is to reduce connect wait times, reduce drop times, increase immersion by throwing us into the action and catching us off-guard, and of course encouraging team play with drop ships.

OmegaRed53, on 01 August 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

In other words, there could be a variation of either one squad of primary mechs (randomized) till they capture the first point, then another squad can enter. The rest can choose to wait till other capture point or join in scouting hover tanks/ vehicles. The need to reward players playing as a hovercraft should be a bonus extra hazard pay plus maybe a new list of warfare and customization?

This sounds like you are describing Mechwarrior Living Legends. Nothing is wrong with this type of implementation, but I really wouldn't mind seeing something like this in Community Warfare Beta maybe later on down the line.

Don't forget this type of implementation you mentioned is great for a Beta build suggestion (new designs, moving ai implementation, etc) as it is huge in scope compared to what I proposed.

What I am proposing could probably be thrown together in a couple weeks which is great on lead time. Yours is pretty diverse and probably wouldn't release within the year or even next year. Also, I am not trying to get you down, nothing is wrong with a diverse idea as they are a great read and possible play, it's just that I really wouldn't mind seeing one of our ideas thrown in the game in a couple weeks after we submit and vote on them.

Thanks for the support everyone.

Edited by m, 02 August 2015 - 12:17 AM.

[OmegaRed53]

Makes sense.

[m]

What does everyone think about this Invasion Mode concept being implemented separately alongside the current voting option?

I think it can be done for 1 solo player to even 4 player groups.

If players are randomly chosen for this game mode after clicking the 'Quick Play' button, are thrown into this mode when searching for a match, with absolutely no choice of voting for it, and they just see a pulsing game screen that says:

"You've been selected for Invasion Mode. Prepare for Immediate Drop!"

Kind of like this:





I think it would be pretty epic, especially if the incoming 'mech lances are unpredictable in tonnage.

Edited by m, 09 December 2015 - 11:33 PM.

[NoiseCrypt]

I like the game mode, but i dislike the concept of splitting "the bucket".
It should be part of the game mode voting system.

It would be a huge leap just slapping a new game mode on the side of the game next to the quick matches.
If it was integrated into the voting system, it could be play tested and evaluated over a longer period of time, without risking a lot of development time if it didn't turn out to play well.

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 14 March 2016 - 03:34 AM.

[m]

NoiseCrypt, on 14 March 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

I like the game mode, but i dislike the concept of splitting "the bucket".
It should be part of the game mode voting system.

I don't know where you got "the bucket" term from, but there wouldn't be no 'splitting of the bucket'.

It's a selection of 8 players randomly chosen after they press 'Quick Play', 4 vs 4 per side, that gets loaded in or dropped off one lance at a time with no tonnage limit.

I actually believe this could trim out the problem we have now of teams being overly loaded with Assaults, Heavies, or Lights, or similar mechs, which is what I have been seeing a lot lately.

Also, this mode COULD be implemented as a type of Error Correction on the Drops we see now so players can have the balance they want, which is what people want if you check out the threads in the forums, in Quick Play by creating an unbalanced mode by picking and choosing select players ( For Error Correction it would no longer be random) depending on their drop. PGI has been working on balance for ages in all sorts of ways..this mode as it is a wave-type of system could alleviate some of the problem.

NoiseCrypt, on 14 March 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

It would be a huge leap just slapping a new game mode on the side of the game next to the quick matches.

It would be a leap. But depending how we vote it will be either something we would want or not want, which would make the whole leap argument superfluous in the end.

NoiseCrypt, on 14 March 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

If it was integrated into the voting system, it could be play tested and evaluated over a longer period of time, without risking a lot of development time if it didn't turn out to play well.

Personally, the voting system is broken as sync droppers can sway a vote in the single player PUG Quick Play system in a blink. There are even several threads in the forums on how to manipulate it. On top of that, the Invasion Mode system, as laid out in the first thread, discusses 8 players being chosen at a time at random (4 vs 4) once they press the Quick Play button.

Also, putting this mode in the actual game without formal testing is a bit irresponsible (don't think they'd do something like that today..maybe back in open beta). That's why there is the Test Server which we all use to help test out certain features. If you don't have the Test Server installed I suggest doing so when they have another round of testing enacted. It happens rarely, but is very interesting and incredibly helpful to everyone when we give feedback.

Edited by m, 15 March 2016 - 02:32 AM.

[NoiseCrypt]

m, on 15 March 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

I don't know where you got "the bucket" term from, but there wouldn't be no 'splitting of the bucket'.
It's a selection of 8 players randomly chosen after they press 'Quick Play', 4 vs 4 per side, that gets loaded in or dropped off one lance at a time with no tonnage limit.

http://programmers.s...oes-bucket-mean
(I even heard it used in the Town Hall meetings...)
And how is what you are describing not a new parallel matchmaker ?
When a player presses "Quick Match" you would be directing him to either the Voting MM or the Invasion MM.

• How long should a player be waiting for the Invasion MM to find 3 (or is it 7) more players ?
  
• can he leave the Invasion MM, and try the "Quick Match" button again ?
  
• or would Invasion selection only happen that one random time where 4 (or is it 8) players presses the "Quick Match" button at the same time ?

And let me rephrase my wording . You will be draining the bucket. Thus providing a weaker foundation for Quick Matches and undermining the entire concept of the "Quick Match" button.

m, on 15 March 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

I actually believe this could trim out the problem we have now of teams being overly loaded with Assaults, Heavies, or Lights, or similar mechs, which is what I have been seeing a lot lately.

That would require algorithms for targeting specific mech classes based on specific criteria... how is that random...
If selection is "true" random, you wont see any mech class distribution changes in the Quick Matches... you will only see fewer players in the bucket.

m, on 15 March 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

It would be a leap. But depending how we vote it will be either something we would want or not want, which would make the whole leap argument superfluous in the end.

People are voting on something that they think that they like... or dislike. They are voting based on theory, speculation and experience. No one knows if the implementation of that specific game mode is going to be any good before it has been implemented and probably gone through several adjustments.

m, on 15 March 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

Also, putting this mode in the actual game without formal testing is a bit irresponsible (don't think they'd do something like that today..maybe back in open beta). That's why there is the Test Server which we all use to help test out certain features. If you don't have the Test Server installed I suggest doing so when they have another round of testing enacted. It happens rarely, but is very interesting and incredibly helpful to everyone when we give feedback.

Let me rephrase.
If it was integrated into the voting system, after formal play testing, it could be "worn in" and receive minor adjustments over a longer period of time, without risking a lot of development time if it didn't turn out to play well.
My point with this is that if the game mode turns out to suck or not be viable in the long run, it would be easier to salvage the working parts, if it was already implemented as part of the voting system.

m, on 15 March 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

Personally, the voting system is broken as sync droppers can sway a vote in the single player PUG Quick Play system in a blink. There are even several threads in the forums on how to manipulate it. On top of that, the Invasion Mode system, as laid out in the first thread, discusses 8 players being chosen at a time at random (4 vs 4) once they press the Quick Play button.

Personally I think that they will be fixing the voting system today... but what does sync dropping and manipulating the voting system have to do with "wearing in" a new game mode anyway?

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 15 March 2016 - 04:29 AM.

[m]

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

http://programmers.s...oes-bucket-mean
(I even heard it used in the Town Hall meetings...)

Okay, so you're referring to programming nomenclature and some of what they discussed in the meetings. The way you had written it was in a sense that it was mentioned " " within this thread. Clearly what you were describing comes down to me needing more clarification on what you initially meant. Glad we have an understanding now.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

And how is what you are describing not a new parallel matchmaker ?

Let's look at both elements for this Invasion mode;

We have one that describes implementation by way of categorizing everyone the moment they press the 'Quick Play' button by randomly picking people regardless of their weight class. This would be equivalent to the 'splitting of the bucket' analogy but having no matchmaking element whatsoever (just randomly picking people) for Invasion Mode.

We have another element that I mentioned a comment or two ago that Error Corrects by selectively picking players to balance out a match. This would be your 'draining of the bucket' analogy mentioned later on...filtering of the bucket for the benefit of traditional 'Quick Play' would be a bit more accurate.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

When a player presses "Quick Match" you would be directing him to either the Voting MM or the Invasion MM.

• How long should a player be waiting for the Invasion MM to find 3 (or is it 7) more players ?

The amount of players as it stands right now, if no one objects, is 4 players per side. Keep in mind, we have yet to get Lance vs Star in the game, so the numbers don't really mean much at the moment as it is just on paper (on screen? lol). The amount of time is subject to scrutiny. Nothing is obviously set in stone as a request to PGI.

As of now the formal matchmaker waits for 24 players. The number could be bumped to 32, and 8 CAN be selectively removed OR 8 be randomly picked and placed. Another alternative set up could be that the 24 player system stays in place, and once 8 click 'Quick Play' they are put into a match. There could be numerous other designs that can be used..it's just a matter of coming up with them.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

• can he leave the Invasion MM, and try the "Quick Match" button again ?

Well once you press the 'Quick Play' button today you can only cancel out if you haven't reached the voting screen. Once you are chosen for the Invasion Queue, in the design I threw together, the screen above would be what someone would see and you can't cancel out. If you are chosen for Invasion Mode, you're chosen. It's meant to remove the element of choice and throw someone into a match un-preparedly to challenge the player.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

• or would Invasion selection only happen that one random time where 4 (or is it 8) players presses the "Quick Match" button at the same time ?

This is the initial intent. 4 vs. 4, random, and once they press the 'Quick Play' button. Feel free to add to the concept or adjust to your liking as I have. The idea here is to have everyone, as a community, build on the concept.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

And let me rephrase my wording . You will be draining the bucket. Thus providing a weaker foundation for Quick Matches and undermining the entire concept of the "Quick Match" button.

Filtering seems more apt depending on how the system is implemented.

It could even be on a timer basis whereas every hour there is one Invasion Mode match. It could even be used whenever it is needed. It all depends on the needs for PGI behind the scenes and the metrics they observe, so the 'Quick Play' matches are never hindered and players never wait.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

That would require algorithms for targeting specific mech classes based on specific criteria... how is that random...
If selection is "true" random, you wont see any mech class distribution changes in the Quick Matches... you will only see fewer players in the bucket.

I did mention in all caps that that implementation "COULD" be for Error Correction. It was just another type of design and clearly that would negate a random choice as mentioned in the first post. The only reason I mentioned it is because matches as of late in the 'Quick Play' section has been overloaded with all different types of mechs as opposed to what once was (3 types of each class).

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

People are voting on something that they think that they like... or dislike. They are voting based on theory, speculation and experience. No one knows if the implementation of that specific game mode is going to be any good before it has been implemented and probably gone through several adjustments.

Usually before anything is formally introduced it is implemented into the Test Server, that's why I mentioned the Test Server as a test bed.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

Let me rephrase.
If it was integrated into the voting system, after formal play testing, it could be "worn in" and receive minor adjustments over a longer period of time, without risking a lot of development time if it didn't turn out to play well.
My point with this is that if the game mode turns out to suck or not be viable in the long run, it would be easier to salvage the working parts, if it was already implemented as part of the voting system.

I see your point. Keep in mind, this thread was made before the voting system was introduced as we see it now. It all depends if people want to vote on something, or be thrusted into a match as initially described.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

Personally I think that they will be fixing the voting system today

Let's cross our fingers.

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

... but what does sync dropping and manipulating the voting system have to do with "wearing in" a new game mode anyway?

This game mode is incompatible with the voting system, as the voting system at the moment is meant for 24 players. This Invasion Mode, as it stands, requests the involvement of 8 players (4 vs 4) at a time, and being thrown into a match. What are the other players (16, 8 per team) supposed to do? Watch and chat? It doesn't seem right and goes against the original design concept of unexpectedness and giving the player a challenge. We're supposed to arrive and try to figure out what is going on immediately.

[NoiseCrypt]

Thanks for taking the time to clarify the concept so far.
Personally I don't see the value of the random selection element. But i think that the game mode could be a cool alternative to the matchmaker joining tiers when there aren't enough players in the same tier looking for a match.
So instead of collecting players from neighboring tiers to reach 24 players, it could choose to send the already collected players into invasion matches.

[m]

NoiseCrypt, on 15 March 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

Thanks for taking the time to clarify the concept so far.
Personally I don't see the value of the random selection element. But i think that the game mode could be a cool alternative to the matchmaker joining tiers when there aren't enough players in the same tier looking for a match.
So instead of collecting players from neighboring tiers to reach 24 players, it could choose to send the already collected players into invasion matches.

That's a good alternative as well. Only problem is that Invasion Mode may be too exclusive in that sense, in that only a select few would be allowed to play at a time in that mode, or be permanently put into that game mode. For that to work it may need to be focused on weight class filtering at the same time, whereas a select percentage would be selected for filtering of weight class separately of also filtering of Tiers (possibly even a combination of both), and then merge the categories in Invasion Mode.

So maybe the selection of Tier based players, awkward Weight classed players, and the combination of the two could be the result for an Invasion Mode match.

Edited by m, 15 March 2016 - 06:31 PM.

[Elendil]

I think it's a good idea, but needs a lot of tweaking to be practical...

I think what would be a better idea to have people earn their drop-deck respawns by capturing strategic objectives, or disabling AA defenses, or securing landing zones. Maybe have it so that when you secure a landing zone it stays secured for 5 minutes, during which time people can use their drop-deck respawns there. After that you have to secure a different landing zone, etc. That way people would want to conserve them and only use them when needed, but risk getting wiped and losing everything.
Plus it would give lights a reason to exist. You could have lances of lights dueling over landing zones...
Or have strategic objectives which give buffs or bonuses when captured or destroyed (for example, make Long Toms or artillery/air strikes or UAVs only work after certain objectives have been captured behind enemy lines, or whatever).

Basically anything to make invasion matches less boring and predictable.
As for random matches, I like the idea of an ongoing battle that more randoms get brought into as time goes on, but it would suck if your side is getting rolled and you start in the middle of a battle that's already been lost.
Just don't think there's any way to make it work for that.

[m]

Bit of an old thread, but if any of you have seen or played the new and very popular game Squad, this type of gamemode promotes Squad-based gameplay.