212 replies to this topic

[ApolloKaras]

One Medic Army, on 04 August 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

Well, seeing as he replied to where I was talking about my executioner blowing out a side torso (from the front) in 2 hits, it's a bit of a disingenuous comparison.

My crap tier assault can kill pretty much everything lighter than 70-75 tons in 2 hits, through the front CT, and the larger mechs I can blow out the side torso instead. Without needing to back-shoot. Back-shooting I could probably 1-shot just about every mech in the game...

Im not sure how. I wouldnt compare the DW to anything less than 100 tons.

[One Medic Army]

Saxie, on 04 August 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Im not sure how. I wouldnt compare the DW to anything less than 100 tons.

I'm not in a direwolf.

I'm in an executioner. Killing dire wolves. In the face.

[ApolloKaras]

One Medic Army, on 04 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

I'm not in a direwolf.

I'm in an executioner. Killing dire wolves. In the face.

Then I mis read I apologize

[Revis Volek]

One Medic Army, on 04 August 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Tell me how.

Without using the words "back armor" or "cockpit" or "headshot".

I have preached since day one that if a DWF sees you coming you are doing it wrong...You choose the front door which is heavily armored and guarded over the back door that's your fault.

I dont know many light mechs pilots that are dumb enough to take anything other then a Medium head on and expect to walk away with more then a smoking pile of parts. (on one leg mind you) You are being silly to take on that alpha head first...it isnt a fair fight against a DWF because of his guns and sheer firepower so make it not a fair fight on your end too.

Also comparing the way a EXE kills stuff to the way lights do it is a big no no....like i said. Lights dont bust through the front door man they sneak in the back and blow you up.

Saxie, on 04 August 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm Darth and I just tested this theory, I was piloting an Atlas S, he was in a DW, he didn't two shot me. If you charge a Dire Wolf that is your problem - its a receiver. Which means it's the anchor to your firing line when mechs are coming in. Plus the DW is slow, the only thing going for it is the pilot being a good shot.



You have to use the words back armor. Its slow. Again expand your horizons on how to take on a DW.

Yea we did, and his Atlas made lunch meat of my DWF (3x U-A/C 5's 1x U-A/C 20 and 3 Er Med lasers) I managed to take his 20 out but that was as far as I got. He out maneuvered me and dropped me like a sack of potatoes. Which is what i expected unless I saw him first and we were outside 300 meters he should win that everytime.

I'd like to know what ELO you are in that you one shots heavies and 2 shots assaults in one of the more undergunned Clan Assaults in the game....PGI let me play there, please?!

[One Medic Army]

DarthRevis, on 04 August 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

I have preached since day one that if a DWF sees you coming you are doing it wrong...You choose the front door which is heavily armored and guarded over the back door that's your fault.

I dont know many light mechs pilots that are dumb enough to take anything other then a Medium head on and expect to walk away with more then a smoking pile of parts. (on one leg mind you) You are being silly to take on that alpha head first...it isnt a fair fight against a DWF because of his guns and sheer firepower so make it not a fair fight on your end too.

Also comparing the way a EXE kills stuff to the way lights do it is a big no no....like i said. Lights dont bust through the front door man they sneak in the back and blow you up.



Yea we did, and his Atlas made lunch meat of my DWF (3x U-A/C 5's 1x U-A/C 20 and 3 Er Med lasers) I managed to take his 20 out but that was as far as I got. He out maneuvered me and dropped me like a sack of potatoes. Which is what i expected unless I saw him first and we were outside 300 meters he should win that everytime.

I'd like to know what ELO you are in that you one shots heavies and 2 shots assaults in one of the more undergunned Clan Assaults in the game....PGI let me play there, please?!

You did the comparison, not me. I said I can kill or cripple things in 2 hits with my executioner, a mech people say is crap due to low payload. You responded saying it's ok because your light does it to a direwolf (throug the back). Apples and oranges.

Under gunned in this case was 2 LPLs and 6 ERMLs. Which is enough to strip the ct armor off a 100 toner in 2 volleys. Currently I'm running UAC/20 and 5 ERMLs, which is only 75 damage including the double shot, per volley. Not that hard to hold the damage on a slow enemy like an assault, and even most heavies and mediums take a half-second to start twisting if you surprise them. Or wait until they're firing and aren't twisting.

[Kjudoon]

Under-gunned? My Victors would like to have a word. A formerly fantastic assault reduced to junk and nobody's looking back thanks to (now) horrid hardpoints and fragile (It's from Italy!) status.

Powercreep and convergence for the obsolescence!

[Tyler Valentine]

Wintersdark, on 03 August 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Imagine trying to take on an Atlas in a Jenner after armor is doubled again.

I agree with your post, but this part.... A Jenner should not be able to take down an Atlas by itself. That is an anomaly of MWO.

[AEgg]

Go play 1v1 in a private match with any mech against any other mech and then come tell me TTK is too low.

We need smaller team sizes or a reason to split up, not more armor.

[Shade 03]

Wintersdark, on 03 August 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

You're clearly new here, and have no damned idea what you're talking about.

1) I am an Assault pilot primarily. Assault for when I need to perform, Mediums for when I'm having fun. This is pretty common knowledge. I am a spectacularly bad light pilot, and dislike them immensely.
2) Your list? It's directly contrary to the game design principles, which state that it should not be a power progression from light>medium>heavy>assault. And it shouldn't be. Why? Because:
3) Have you looked at the queue sizes, particularly pre-cheetah release (they'll go back after the new mech smell wears off)? Lights are typically at less than 10%. Mediums around 15-20%. Heavies pushing 40%. This is a problem. Lights are the hardest class to play, and the least rewarding.

Look. In tabletop, weapons do the same list damage. Mechs have HALF the armor they do here. That means your locust loses like 10 armor to it's CT, and the Atlas loses some 60. THAT IS HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. Even assaults should be very wary of a single ERPPC, and tremble in fear of an AC20. Now, things are different here because of convergence and whatnot, and that's where problems come from, but the fact remains that there is already WAY more survivability difference between a light and an assault than there should be. Doubling armor again makes it even worse.

Yes I must be new here (bemused)
I suppose if you take into account your 7000+ posts, I must seem like a newbie
Shrugs guess I spend too much time playing and not enough time getting upset when someone doesn't like my posts.
Guess I'll stop trying to be interactive / funny and take my battledroids boxed set, and founders tags and keep to myself

[Wintersdark]

Tyler Valentine, on 04 August 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

I agree with your post, but this part.... A Jenner should not be able to take down an Atlas by itself. That is an anomaly of MWO.

That is the design of MWO. You can argue it shouldn't be that way, but that argument has no place here at all. One of MWO's core principles was there was no progression through the weight classes, that a bigger mech isn't just better.

As I said in a later post, if we had meaningful role warfare, things would be different, but we don't. We're discussing a feature add to the MWO we have, not the one we may want.

[Wintersdark]

Shade 03, on 04 August 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Yes I must be new here (bemused)
I suppose if you take into account your 7000+ posts, I must seem like a newbie
Shrugs guess I spend too much time playing and not enough time getting upset when someone doesn't like my posts.
Guess I'll stop trying to be interactive / funny and take my battledroids boxed set, and founders tags and keep to myself

I apologize for the tone of my first post. By "You're clearly new here" - I meant here, on the forums. It was out of line, though in my own defense the post I responded to wasn't a shining example of kind discourse. I get my jimmies rustled when I'm accused of posting a bunch of stuff just to be self-serving.

Regardless, the points still stand.

[Pjwned]

Shade 03, on 03 August 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Oh ho
Maybe the lights SHOULD think twice about charging an atlas.
Maybe the atlas SHOULDNT go down from three or four light mech alphas
MAybe the light pilots should FEAR the larger mechs instead of jumping in and attacking because they can with little consequence relying on their crappy hit boxes and hitreg fail to keep them alive.

You must be a cheetah pilot

If you expect an Atlas to survive against multiple lights without help and without at least decent piloting skill then you should probably just git gud. The Atlas that gets caught on its own and gets ambushed is not the one who should win in such an engagement unless they know what they're doing or the lights are bad.

No mech caught alone against unfavorable odds should have an easy time winning.

[Kjudoon]

No light should be able to win let alone survive solo combat with an assault that is not already damaged except in rare circumstances.

But since the role of light mech is like having anhunting guide trying to find an enemy team on a football field.... They need something.

[One Medic Army]

Kjudoon, on 04 August 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

No light should be able to win let alone survive solo combat with an assault that is not already damaged except in rare circumstances.

But since the role of light mech is like having anhunting guide trying to find an enemy team on a football field.... They need something.

Ever wonder why in TT so many assaults had rear-facing guns?

Because even in TT lights were quite dangerous to slow assaults.

in a game where the goal is combat, and every mech has a single pilot, then the game ought to be balanced such that every player is equally useful to the team. Right now lights aren't.

[Himmelganger]

I think the best way to fix T2K is to throw out the current damage model and implement a new one which is based around armour penetration and damage to internals. The current model is just a sandpaper approch, and was used due to limitations of a TT game. In essense today's damage model, you scour off the armour and then you start scouring the internals. Instead give every weapon an armour penetration value X used agasint Y armour factor. If the weapon defeats the armour it does internal damage, if it fails, no damage at all.

This approch fixes most issues with boating of weapons we have now, as now instead of having the most effective sandpaper approuch, need to consider actual effectivness of differet weapon system in defeating armour at various thicknesses. Also high alphas will be rendered moot as again it is no automatic damage, there are always a chance the weapon does no damage so it doesn't matter you can do a 72 point alpha as each weapon will be a seperate armour penetration check. Some will say this is too much RNG due to the armour penetration checks. Maybe, but when you consider that he current damage model is lifted from an old TT game which was modeled not for realism, but implemented this way as to balance ease of use and game flow. It has no use what so ever in modern mecha game just becasue it is nostalgic.

Edited by Himmelganger, 04 August 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[Kjudoon]

You are right. Lights are op for the simple fact the maps are drastically too small by a factor of 10 or 20. They need to be due to map size limiting. Functionality Plus the risk reward for being a scout spotter or other proper support role is non existant.

[General Solo]

Kjudoon, on 04 August 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

If you're getting 2-4 kills and not breaking 500 damage (like I've seen more than a couple Gauss Whales do) It's a problem. That's not focus firing, that's crappy COD sniper garbage in a game that shouldn't have that ability.

What else does a Direwolf have going for it, maneuverability, damage spreadability, er ...speed?

That sort of damage to kill ratio, implies accuracy or great kill stealing skills

Direwolf's are only dangerous when in front. Why you stare at Direwolf eyes.

Look into my eyes " You are getting sleepy, you are now asleep, good night"

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 04 August 2015 - 11:56 PM.

[Kjudoon]

And yet I see it happen regularly where a mech has low damage high kills. Its either the overquirked overpowered or broken mechs doing it. It may not be 42 points a kill but it in that arena.

[Kjudoon]

And yet I see it happen regularly where a mech has low damage high kills. Its either the overquirked overpowered or broken mechs doing it. It may not be 42 points a kill but is in that arena. You also can tell it is high alpha not kill snaking when nobody on that team is compensating with very high damage output and low or no kills and few assists.

And yet I see it happen regularly where a mech has low damage high kills. Its either the overquirked overpowered or broken mechs doing it. It may not be 42 points a kill but is in that arena. You also can tell it is high alpha not kill snaking when nobody on that team is compensating with very high damage output and low or no kills and few assists.

[Lykaon]

Wintersdark, on 03 August 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

No.

Armor doubling isn't fair. It appears fair: "Oh, but you're increasing everyone's armor by a percentage amount, that's the very definition of fair!.

It's not.

See, Double the armor on a Locust, it still gets one-shot. Lights are still quite fragile, because gaining 1/4 of a standard alpha's armor to your CT isn't enough to really make a substantial difference.


On the other hand, the atlas gains, what, 120 armor for it's CT?

See the problem? You make Heavies and Assaults vastly more survivable, but barely touch Lights and Mediums. If you're a heavy or assault pilot, that may seem fine, but it's terrible in a game that's already heavily skewed to big mechs. Imagine trying to take on an Atlas in a Jenner after armor is doubled again.

Koniving had a solution to this, some time back in the day.

This would be true but evasion is always superior to absorption.The Locust rounds a bend and sees something it can't handle so imediatley the pilot runs for it.Essentially allowing a ready and observant enemy mech a brief moment to try and shoot the locust. A good portion of the time a Locust will actually survive this sort of encounter because it has evasion as an option and it still retains a very small amount of absorption because like all mechs it can use armor.

An Atlas rounds a bend and see something it can't handle the pilot imediatley tries to disengage but,due to the speed of the Atlas and ease of hitting an atlas the Atlas is chewed up by enemy fire possibly destroyed but pretty much best case is a mauled Atlas that stumbled back into cover and may still be pursued by attackers it can not escape. The Atlas has very very poor evasion but superior absorption yet absorption is inferior to evasion.