212 replies to this topic

[Baba Yogi]

Kjudoon, on 12 August 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

It's part of the point I make about grouped/simultaneous weapon firing. One weapon is going to hit dead on, the rest scatter. Chain firing as long as say it's not like buttonmash spamming of the chain faster than it's normal rate, then yes, they should all hit where they are targetted.

Not a complicated mechanic either, also would change alpha into a last resort maneuver like it was in the books:) May not be the perfect way to solve the problem but it'd fix alot of the current problems without taking away players ability to shoot where they want. Also would remove the certain unnecessery mechanics in the game. It may not be the best solution to be found but imo it is better than what we have at the moment. Besides game's been going stale maybe a change in mechanics like this would give MWO the fresh blood they desperately need.

[Lily from animove]

Khobai, on 08 August 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Deathballing is teamwork in its most brainless and unintelligent form. Its mob mentality. It's equivalent to assembling a bunch of angry townspeople together with torches and pitchforks and chasing down the monster.

All deathballing accomplishes is dumbing down the game by making all other strategies/tactics irrelevant and rendering individual skill meaningless. Its teamwork at its worst.

IMO the one-life gamemodes should all be 8v8. Only CW should be 12v12. That would largely fix deathballing.

the issue is the too small maps and the too many bottlenecs existing. people cna pile up every where too easily without being a target on the plate.

there is no point, or hardly any one allowing you to tactically surround an opponent team to flank them from multiple sides. because tiher ther eis not the location for this ANYWHERE on the map, or the maps too small and the opponent can deathball form one sideline throgh the entire other end, like soacking up a spaghetti.

This is indeed a bit sad, still tkk is too low. yesterday I approached a fresh DWF in my nova together with a TBR. I JJed over the TBR so we exited the corner at the same time, and the DWF died in like 4 seconds due to concentrated CT focus fire. Thats truly not how MW should work. Especially when you ad multiple mechs into an encounter all the mechs fall apart so fast its not even close to any some "true battle".

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 August 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Lykaon]

bad arcade kitty, on 03 August 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

i'm pretty sure that more than a lance of mechs firing at a single one could kill it in one turn in tt... mechs in mwo in that situation live usually longer than 10 seconds

I beg to differ a mech under fire from 4 MWo mechs is evaporated in under 5 seconds if any of the 4 attacks have any degree of skill.

Lets run some numbers.


Target is a 100 ton mech with 100 ct armor and 60 ct internal

Shooters are

1 Hunchback 4g:AC20 2x medium lasers (let's say the sml laser is out of range) 30 dmg
1 Catapult K2: 2x PPC 2x Med Lasers (let's say MGs are out of range) 30 dmg
1 Kingcrab 000: 2x AC20 lrg laser (let's say LRMs are in min range) 48 dmg
1 Jenner JR7 f: 4x medium lasers 20 dmg

Total damage output 128 per alpha and a capacity to deal 2 alphas in the alloted time of 5 seconds 256 damage fired at the target.Assuming average hits at 50% on CT the 100 ton mech has taken 128 damage to it's CT.It's technically not destroyed I guess because it has 32 internal structure left but...

Who uses stock 3025 mechs like I used in my example?
The target was a 100 ton mech with front CT armor optimized!
The lance in the example was composed of one mech from each weight class!
None of the mechs in the attacking lance used clan tech!

Essentially my example was skewed to your advantage and still left an effectivley cored out 100 ton mech after half the alloted ten second interval.

Had the example been more realistic the lance in question would not be one of each weight class would include optimized PP FLD builds and clantech weapons and the target would not neccissarily be the hardest of nuts to crack with 160 combined CT armor and structure it would be more like 120 combined CT armor/structure (65 ton mech)

The numbers more frequently look like this

220 per combined alpha x2 for 5 second interval (440 dmg) vs 120 combined armor/internal with 60% hit rate on CT = significantly more damage applied to target than needed to kill it in 5 seconds!

Edited by Lykaon, 12 August 2015 - 07:05 AM.

[Almond Brown]

MWO's TTK has two(2) states of being.

1) When you Die and Lose TTK is way to (bleeping) Low.
2) When you Survive and Win TTK is just about perfect.

Solution: Pick the state you prefer your TTK to be under and then fight appropriately. (caveat - one state is very hard to maintain 100% so be prepared to see the "other" state no matter how good you think you are.)

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

#3rd option.

Decrease the firing rate of weapons.

[KraftySOT]

Yeah theres clearly multiple options to increase TTK:

1. Make aiming harder

2. Get rid of pinpoint damage

3. Increase armor

4. Decrease damage

5. Decrease rate of fire

6 to the power of 5. All or any of the options in various combinations


Did I miss any?

Almond Brown, on 12 August 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

MWO's TTK has two(2) states of being.

1) When you Die and Lose TTK is way to (bleeping) Low.
2) When you Survive and Win TTK is just about perfect.

Solution: Pick the state you prefer your TTK to be under and then fight appropriately. (caveat - one state is very hard to maintain 100% so be prepared to see the "other" state no matter how good you think you are.)

Except when I win, TTK is still too low. Because I cored 3 mechs in one shot and I honestly feel bad for the ragequitting masses that im sure ive driven away from this game by instapopping them.

I actually had a legendary founder message me, call me a cheater, say he was reporting me, and then when it was found I wasnt, he quit the game.

Ive never paid a dime to PGI.

That guy was going to spend more money.

The best thing PGI did was get us tryhards out of the queues for a while and into CW, and then distract us with "esports" and competitions for money. Otherwise alot of us would just be driving away more customers.


The two actual states of being.....

1. Coming in contact with try hards and realizing TTK is way to low
2. Not coming in contact with try hards and not realizing TTK is way to low

I spectate alot when I die...watching peoples builds....no wonder people think TTK is alright.

When you have 60-70-80 damage alphas every 3-3.5 seconds, is a whole different ballgame. And its not exactly hard to do, heat really doesnt limit you, youve got an endless stream of modules and airstrikes...

Nothing is better than hitting a Dire with arty then one shotting it to the chest, and the guy exiting the match before your warhorn is finished blaring.

Oh wait no thats horribly destructive for the game...

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 August 2015 - 10:21 AM.

[Almond Brown]

KraftySOT, on 12 August 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yeah theres clearly multiple options to increase TTK:

1. Make aiming harder

2. Get rid of pinpoint damage

3. Increase armor

4. Decrease damage

5. Decrease rate of fire

6 to the power of 5. All or any of the options in various combinations


Did I miss any?




Except when I win, TTK is still too low. Because I cored 3 mechs in one shot and I honestly feel bad for the ragequitting masses that im sure ive driven away from this game by instapopping them.

I actually had a legendary founder message me, call me a cheater, say he was reporting me, and then when it was found I wasnt, he quit the game.

Ive never paid a dime to PGI.

That guy was going to spend more money.

The best thing PGI did was get us tryhards out of the queues for a while and into CW, and then distract us with "esports" and competitions for money. Otherwise alot of us would just be driving away more customers.


The two actual states of being.....

1. Coming in contact with try hards and realizing TTK is way to low
2. Not coming in contact with try hards and not realizing TTK is way to low

I spectate alot when I die...watching peoples builds....no wonder people think TTK is alright.

When you have 60-70-80 damage alphas every 3-3.5 seconds, is a whole different ballgame. And its not exactly hard to do, heat really doesnt limit you, youve got an endless stream of modules and airstrikes...

Nothing is better than hitting a Dire with arty then one shotting it to the chest, and the guy exiting the match before your warhorn is finished blaring.

Oh wait no thats horribly destructive for the game...

You missed

6) Just have one Global/Mech HP Pool and all Hits decrease said pool to "zero" and then you die. Best have floating numbers overhead too, so the shooter can try and keep track of the HP taken off the targets Pool, otherwise they can't legit complain about Hit Reg.

That way a DW has a single max HP pool of 614. It will take some serious shooting to kill that Big Bugger.

Say, versus the 138 point Pool of that poor Locust. LOL!

[Khobai]

Clearly we need shields that regenerate while youre not taking damage

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 12 August 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Clearly we need shields that regenerate while youre not taking damage

It's funny because Harjell II and Harjel III actually do that in the distant future timeline.

http://battletech.rp...me=Harjel%20III

[Khobai]

Quote

t's funny because Harjell II and Harjel III actually do that in the distant future timeline.

hairgel wut?

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 12 August 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

hairgel wut?

Magical hairgel that automatically oozes magical goo to serve as replacement armor for damaged body parts.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

If TTK is really too low, the easiest solution is just to heap on more armor perks for mechs that have lower damage outputs or need XL engines for whatever reason. Personally I'm expecting all the mechs with armor perks that have been added through the cash store to get those perks extended to the rest of the variants eventually.

Trying to complicate the issue of convergence just reinforces deathball meta since actual individual skill matters less than how many mechs you have shooting at the same target.

[Tombstoner]

vnlk65n, on 12 August 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

If TTK is really too low, the easiest solution is just to heap on more armor perks for mechs that have lower damage outputs or need XL engines for whatever reason. Personally I'm expecting all the mechs with armor perks that have been added through the cash store to get those perks extended to the rest of the variants eventually.

Trying to complicate the issue of convergence just reinforces deathball meta since actual individual skill matters less than how many mechs you have shooting at the same target.

No PGI needs to sack up and correctly build the game. The game needs a co factor per location to convert a 2d6 RNG hit location system to a skill based FPS.

Problem corrected awaiting assessment. What we get is silence, ghost heat then perks. Fix the basic game mechanics. ($&%(&($&($er's

[Lykaon]

Tombstoner, on 12 August 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

No PGI needs to sack up and correctly build the game. The game needs a co factor per location to convert a 2d6 RNG hit location system to a skill based FPS.

Problem corrected awaiting assessment. What we get is silence, ghost heat then perks. Fix the basic game mechanics. ($&%(&($&($er's

This is far from an ideal solution even if it is an effective one.

Why is it effective people may ask? Well it will work because it is the identical support mechanic used for the armor mechanics in use by MWo that are derived from table top Battletech armor mechanics.

Why is it a bad idea others may ask? Well any mechanic that alters the actual hit location from the precieved aimed at location is unpopular.Word of Tanks uses a cone of fire mechanic and that is frequently sited as a negative point of WoT.


This community in particular would dispise a RNG mechanic determining where they hit a target.

[Escef]

Raggedyman, on 04 August 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

My TT Purist hate is that Scouts don't have a bigger role scouting,...

So, tell me, in how many games of TT have you moved light mechs to an area and then left? Wow, pure excitement there.

Scouts don't even fulfill a scouting role in TT unless you are working on a much, MUCH larger scale than the average TT scenario. Most of the the time actual scout units engage in combat it is because something went disastrously wrong or a commander decided to risk his recon assets on a flanking or diversionary mission.

As for TTK in general, it is right around where it should be.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

A round in TT =10 seconds. which light in tt is lived after 12 rounds in focus fire? thats only two minutes

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Tombstoner, on 12 August 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

No PGI needs to sack up and correctly build the game. The game needs a co factor per location to convert a 2d6 RNG hit location system to a skill based FPS.

Problem corrected awaiting assessment. What we get is silence, ghost heat then perks. Fix the basic game mechanics. ($&%(&($&($er's

Cool dude can't wait to get cockpit sniped because my arm was sticking out.

[Lily from animove]

I Zeratul I, on 12 August 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

#3rd option.

Decrease the firing rate of weapons.

does not help with the amount of alpha possible. we need less heta treshold to prevent all those wepaons be fired at ONCE. this will increase the need to chanfire which in counter has a higher chance to spread damage by twisting and movement.

@Krafty the Pinpoint is only an issue with the ability to pack a big alpha. Pinpoint itself is not an issue, its as usual the combinations soem emchs allow to make it an issue. No Pinpoint should exceed 40, thats just overkill.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

TT: when two pilots fire a Gauss to a walking or standing Lightmech in the 120m = most dead
MWO:TT: when two pilots fire a Gauss to a walking or standing Lightmech in the 120m = most dead

who in TT or mWO no movement and coverage used to survive is dead, here in mWO, we even lasers which make the full damage is not in every shot, and to any range on a zone as in the TT, and we play with Double Blind Rules









Tabletop difference to PC Game: the tabletop can aim at the pilot neither the Mech, even a zone, even he wennd opponent stands in front of him ... they are fighting blind

Cheese Rules bad for a PC Hack&Slay Game or a Live Action Role Play

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 13 August 2015 - 03:00 AM.

[LordBraxton]

My EXE builds pump out 60-80 damage alphas with 2-3 second recharge and can fire 3-5 times before overheating. Nothing survives the facetank. I one-shot most IS mediums due to their poortech XLs. My 95 ton monster is only saved by MASC acceleration. I can easily lose a side torso in 1 poke if even 2 heavy+ mechs see me. This game is a hull-down poke fest because we all die in 2-5 salvos.