29 replies to this topic

[Dorion]

Hello All,

Was just reading another post about mechs being the proper size. The original poster seemed to have been concerned that they may be represented in the game larger than they were supposed to be. And I was thinking to myself "Wow, I don't care if they are to big. The bigger the better. I'm here to fight in giant robots and to me, that’s cool. Big giant mechs! Give me one as big as the Empire State Building and I will be happiest mechwarrior fan in the world!" Nothing against that original poster intended at all. However, that got me thinking about MWO and the mechwarrior universe in general.

First, let me say I started playing mechwarrior around 2004 with MW4. That’s about 8 years ago which may seem like a long time but as most people know, that’s rather late in the mechwarrior universe timeline. I don’t consider myself a noob, but I’m certainly not well versed in the mechwarrior/battletech universe/lore. (As you could probably tell already by my post).

Back to my post. Basically, you get the gist, I’m here to blow things up with my guass rifle and lasers. I loved my Daishi in MW4, but I don’t care if they flatten his nose and call him “Billy” (no offense to all the Billys out there). As long as I get to hop into a giant mech and have fun with my team, I’m happy. However, after hanging around the community a bit, I get the sense there are a lot of people here that are excited about bringing the mechwarrior universe to life through this game. A lot of people have been involved in the books and board game and are really interested in a “strict” translation of that universe into MWO. I want to say that I totally respect that and understand the reasoning and excitement behind that movement. Its really great and satisfying to see long running franchise resurface in modern gaming. It’s a great formula and part of what makes the game fun.

That being said, I’m wondering exactly where the creativity should stop and the story facts should kick in. “What is this guy talking about?” you may be saying to yourself.

We’ll, for example, I’m sure the developers are doing their best to translate the weapons from the books/board game and previous games into MWO in a way that is faithful to the franchise’s history but also in a way that will make gameplay balanced and fun. What I’m asking though, is how much latitude should they have? What if the developers wanted to introduce a new weapon never seen in the battletech universe before? Lets say a nuclear grenade launcher (All legal rights aside). Would this community or you as an individual accept that? What if the developers thought that it would be cool to introduce a new mech or supermech, maybe one twice the size of an Atlas? After all, the original game was conceived as a creation of imagination. Wouldn’t it just be natural to keep the imagination going and continue to expand that universe?

I guess it boils down to a simple question:

If the developers had the legal right (which I have no clue if they do or don’t) to introduce or alter major storylines and technologies in the mechwarrior/battletech universe in MWO would you support or encourage it; or would you rather they maintained the purity of the mechwarrior/battletech universe as much as possible and only strictly modify what is needed to make a playable game?

As an individual who enjoyed MW4, but has not been involved in the mechwarrior/battletech universe beyond that I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

[Reoh]

I like the game to stick to canon in many areas, but understand there are times when gameplay trumps lore. When there's a problem, I look for a canonical solution to the problem because often its an issue that has already presented on a number of occasions throughout the IP's history and already been solved satisfactorily, or at least give the devs a springboard to start from.

That said, i'm not looking into adding elements that don't make sense for the IP, its supposed to be a game about Mechwarriors and the Battletech Universe which means it shouldn't violate the tradition of the game without a valid reason.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I agree with Reoh. TBH there are enough weapons to choose from in the BTU and more to come further down the timeline. There is much more to introducing a new weapon than thinking up a name, producing artwork and dreaming up some stats.

[Silent]

As long as it's fun and loosely sticks to the source and atmosphere that the various tabletop/computer games have I am cool with it.

[Fire for Effect]

Dorion, on 05 July 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

I guess it boils down to a simple question:

If the developers had the legal right (which I have no clue if they do or don’t) to introduce or alter major storylines and technologies in the mechwarrior/battletech universe in MWO would you support or encourage it; or would you rather they maintained the purity of the mechwarrior/battletech universe as much as possible and only strictly modify what is needed to make a playable game?

quite unlikely since Jordan K weisman the guy who pulled the strings with battletech is involved he might get quite mad if his basic ideas are changed...

[PewPew]

I generally agree with you, but in the case of mech scaling, it's incredibly important for the feel of the game. Too small and you wonder where the pilot sits. Too large and it's ridiculous.

[Hans Von Lohman]

I want it to stick to the lore pretty well.

BattleTech originally was a lot about salvage and fighting with busted up mechs. However, my recollection of the game was it was about regiments of mechs invading planets in a long running war that started before you were born, and would continue after you have retired and your child had your mech to continue on. And lots of mercenaries making up about half the mechs out there.

The manufacturing was just enough to replace losses, and barely kept up.

Lore, and back story are part of any game. They do actually make a difference to me.

[SinnerX]

I will support the creative liberties the devs take, because I think it's pretty clear that they care about this franchise. When you see the videos with Russ, he doesn't look like some of those other dev executives you see nowadays, spouting some rhetoric and buzzwords about a game that they only see as another paycheck. You can tell by the detail he goes into, and the look in his eyes(despite his laid back, Canadian manner lol) that he's passionate about this. So yes, I'll support any changes he wants to make, because I trust him not to deviate too far from a series that he enjoys just as much as we do.

[Bombast]

Fun fact: Not a single Mechwarrior video game is canon.

Not. Even. One.

That being said, they all follow canon. The broad strokes of MW3, for example, happened, but the specifics in game (4 mechwarriors going nuts against 5 galaxies and winning) are not canon.

So, will Mechwarrior Online diviate from canon? Probably. Will it deviate greatly? No. Will anything in game be considered canon? Absolutely not, unless its exactly what happened in the books, rulebooks or TROs (Which are the only sources of canon).

[Wiley Coyote]

I thought maybe the OP was referring to this Mechwario:



This is impure and definitely not canon!

[ermine]

I'm a purist as it turns out. If they introduced 200 ton super atlases with nuke launchers, I'd want my money back and would regret the demise of the franchise. If the devs have to make minor deviations from canon for the sake of having a fun, balanced game...I can live with it. But the universe has a tremendous amount of variety already. If one wants even more, then one should probably find a different game....UT had nukes.....Hawken has robots.

Edited by ermine, 06 July 2012 - 04:54 AM.

[Elizander]

I'm fine with the existing weapons so I'd certainly make an odd face if they suddenly come up with something original. I'm sure a lot of others would as well. It's not necessarily a bad thing but I feel it would be out of place if it was done before all relevant content was already used up.

[hornet331]

PG already said -> gameplay >canon and thats a good thing, thats why lasers deal DoT and not to insta damage.

[SparkSovereign]

To me, existing canon is a means to an end. That end is the amazing feel of being a Mechwarrior, running around in a giant war machine with lasers and stuff, in a world filled almost exclusively with horrible people you want to kill. A new mech does not detract from that, and is far more likely to just make the universe more Awesome (pun intended). Hell, even allowing use of an existing mech that wasn't canonically developed yet would be fine; apply Bellisario's Maxim and shoot it, the game would still be fun even and no less "pure" than any other change.

You are here to kill people with mechs. Anyone who says otherwise is either gravely misinformed as to the premise of MWO, or lying. Strictly speaking, anything that makes mech combat more interesting is a good thing. If PGI discovers that mechs with mine launchers are the coolest thing ever, they should not shy from implementing it just because it doesn't necessarily exist in canon (or might even have a canonical argument against their existence). The important thing is that it feels like Mechwarrior, and is awesome. Simulator logic makes for poor gameplay.

In my mind, purity is irrelevant at best and a terrible obstacle at worst. What you really want is faithfulness to the idea. A good Mechwarrior game is a good Mechwarrior game, regardless of whether it dots its 'i's and crosses its 't's the same way "canon" says it should.

[Circles End]

hornet331, on 06 July 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

thats why lasers deal DoT and not to insta damage.

And yay to that.
Always go with rule of cool on this. If the original rules prevent fun, throw the rules out the window. I actually think FASA themselves stated that in the SR3 rulebook if memory serves.


*edit* other post happened while I wrote.

Edited by Circles End, 06 July 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[Schtirlitz]

Devs said they will change some role and mechanics for the game.
But they will not change the storyline.
Mechanics change is ok with me.

[Refizul]

SparkSovereign, on 06 July 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

Simulator logic makes for poor gameplay.

That's very much a matter of taste. Every one that likes simulators will argue that point.

SparkSovereign, on 06 July 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

In my mind, purity is irrelevant at best and a terrible obstacle at worst. What you really want is faithfulness to the idea. A good Mechwarrior game is a good Mechwarrior game, regardless of whether it dots its 'i's and crosses its 't's the same way "canon" says it should.

That gameplay comes before strictly following canon is ok. But when you start adding/changing things just because you think it's cool, then you don't need the Battletech license.

[TIRANO QUATTRO]

This is a really interesting topic. Nice one Dorion.

Imho... I think the first thing we should have in mind is that BattleTech is a Science Fiction franchise. This is Science Fiction, so everything we see and talk about comes from the creativity of someone else. I believe that the game should stick to the canon as much as it can unless devs need to fix something to balance the game for a better gameplay.

Besides that, the game is not even launched yet, we all haven't stardet to play it for real (beta is not the game) and the game locates in some point of the early history of the franchise, so after the game is lauched we have a lot of material to expecience with, the whole history of battleteck. Once we all have covered the whole material we have at hand, then we should start looking for some more creativity to feed this universe.

I think we should not cut the corners, and focus on enjoying what its already created, after that MAYBE we could rethink things up looking for creating new things out of the lore.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Gameplay is negotiable, so long as PGI tries to simulate the universe by how it "feels" rather than copy board game rules as they sit. You can't do the boardgame rules. If you test it and find out the small laser is nearly the same range as a large laser, then go to the forums to cry fowl about it, I won't be on your side. You can't do the rules from the boardgame the same as a video game because turn based strategy and FPS are WAY different.

[Buck Rogers]

Dorion, on 05 July 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

The bigger the better. I'm here to fight in giant robots and to me, that’s cool. Big giant mechs! Give me one as big as the Empire State Building and I will be happiest mechwarrior fan in the world!

Yeah. No.