151 replies to this topic

[Icharus29]

The Cheetah doesn't need a nerf. All pilots need to learn how to engage the mech. It's not that difficult, really. Even without streaks. Learn to aim. Besides, as I said in my own thread:

Dear PGI,

Don't you DARE nerf this mech due to IS whining! Nuff said.

Icharus29

[Sarlic]

I'm sorry but in my opinion anyone who's says this that the AC is fine with a steel face is a pancake it's a outright lie to protect your freshly bought chassis. (No offense)

Obviously you are missing the fact it has the same profile as the FS yet it's Clan tech. I pumped more then enough firepower (and i have seen from others) into this thing. Some succesfull, and a hell of a lot not. Most of the time aiming, other times i see decent aiming and it still does not register.

It's blatantly P2W. Period. Whatever you say so, this mech is just like the Timberwolf (when it got nerfed after the buy-in) i expect predict this to be nerfed after it comes out and it deserve to get nerfed.

The legs is the only solution i see so far. And its the most aimed at because everyone sees that: above the legs; dont bother hitting it.

They're both still broken.

Edited by Sarlic, 08 August 2015 - 08:53 AM.

[Kodyn]

My theory on the Cheetah is that it's simply the standard, tough-as-nails clan hitboxes, but it also happens to be as fast as an IS light.

That combination, which we're all unused to, is just plain freaking deadly. I wouldn't be real surprised if they find a way to tone it down a bit, because there may well be more going on with it than just that, but either way, I think that goes a long way towards an explanation.

Now whoever brought up FS9, Spiders, and Ravens....

Yes Firestarters used to be godmode...they aren't anymore. Nor are the Spiders. They can still get away with a lot, but with recent HSR/Hitreg changes, they go down a lot, lot quicker.

And Ravens?? What're you smoking? You look at a Raven funny, it dies, they aren't tough to kill at all, that's just lack of aim. They're huge, have a prominent nose that is all CT/Cockpit, easy to leg, and slower than most IS lights. If you have trouble with Ravens, you're going to have trouble with most mediums too.

[Sarlic]

Well as far i can tell the AC always loses arms first due incoming firepower (damage spread) Despite their ST still attached they can still tank a insane buttload of damage before going down.

I see ACs running with 30% all the time before they go down with either on damage on the legs or ST. But never CT and or with arms attached.

All i know something is not right when i just put the amount of firepower in a AC and it just flashes as it tanks like a freaking Assault.

People should watch often the matches how many ACs you see running with 30% or lower.

I dont call for a nerf, but a slight hitbox adjustment.

Edited by Sarlic, 08 August 2015 - 02:55 AM.

[Kodyn]

Sarlic, on 08 August 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:

Well as far i can tell the AC always loses arms first due incoming firepower (damage spread) Despite their ST still attached they can still tank a insane buttload of damage before going down.

I see ACs running with 30% all the time before they go down with either on damage on the legs or ST. But never CT and or with arms attached.

All i know something is not right when i just put the amount of firepower in a AC and it just flashes as it tanks like a freaking Assault.

People should watch often the matches how many ACs you see running with 30% or lower.

I've seen all this, and I spent a day or two bemoaning how OP the Cheetahs were, but then I realized what game I was playing...

If they are in fact OP to a broken level, it's on purpose, "working as intended", and they will simply nerf them slightly in a little while once everyone's done spending money. They've done this pattern with several mechs now, it just seems to be part of PGIs process, so I expect if we're all patient, we'll see it happen once again.

That said, I still don't think it will be a huge nerf, since I think a lot of the issues come from clan tech moving that fast, but they may at least change the hitbox situation around some, so they actually take damage while standing still, as well...which they don't seem to do much, now.

[Seelenlos]

DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF S?

The meaning of this game is not to AIM for the LEGS?

IF that's the case then we should call it LEGsWARRIOR ONLINE !

it is a game breaker if ANY Mech is issued to a specific hit position!

This must be so that ANY MECH has the CHANCE to get HIT with full Damage at near Range at any MECH-PART.

The only way we have NOW is to call for NERFs till the developer implement that right code in the game to get it more playable.

[Nightshade24]

Seelenlos, on 05 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

I saw how 2 arctic cheetah took out 6 other clanser...

THAT is too much for a light mech.

change hit reg on torso a bit higher.

Then all is on then.

Regards

I once took out 8 mechs in a Locust 1V with 4 machine guns and 1 medium laser.
It's all to do with situation, skill , and circumstances...

Do not forget that Firestarters do a similar thing as well (which is sometimes seen in CW, where the spammed firestarter charge can kill 2 entire teams of mechs before lossing half there fire starters)

I also got a few 1000+ games in my raven 2X and 4X's...

Doesn't matter really. It doesn't make a mech OP or not. sure if these things get 1K match literally when ever they get into one where a bad game is a 700 damage or less game like back when the thunderbolt had the insane 50% quirks for er ppc's... that is Op.



personally the main problem with people and the arctic cheetah is not aiming for the legs- as a player for this mech everything is all fine and good when people aim at centre of mass up until 1 smart guy legs me with ease and then I am a sitting duck...

It's only a 30 tonner and the legs are a bit thick for a light.

[IraqiWalker]

Seelenlos, on 08 August 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF S?

The meaning of this game is not to AIM for the LEGS?

IF that's the case then we should call it LEGsWARRIOR ONLINE !

it is a game breaker if ANY Mech is issued to a specific hit position!

This must be so that ANY MECH has the CHANCE to get HIT with full Damage at near Range at any MECH-PART.

The only way we have NOW is to call for NERFs till the developer implement that right code in the game to get it more playable.

^This, is absolutely stupid.

We're not saying leg all mechs. Light mechs excel at moving very quickly from point A to point B, which makes aiming at them to land killing blows on their STs, and CTs, very difficult. So to make the job easier, we take a leg out, and we slow them down to a crawl. It's called thinking, and using different tactics, to deal with different threats. Much like how we take out the Right torso on most Atlai, and the left torso on all ECM mechs (except KFX, always go for the Right Arm on that one)

It's basic common sense. Next you're gonna want all mechs to walk at the same speed, and fire the same gun?

---

Back on topic:

Look. The simple matter of fact is that the internal health quirks the Cheetah got are a bit too much. It has more armor and health than a 35 tonner does. While still being a light mech, with light hitboxes, and light mech speeds.

Before any of you start moaning: I am a dedicated light mech pilot. They are the class I play the most, and in fact, my Commando 2D probably has more matches on it than all my other mechs combined (save for maybe the DWF prime). I also own the Arctic Cheetah pack (and firestarters, and Locusts). So not only do I know what I'm talking about, but I also stand to lose the most if the mech is nerfed. Oh, and I don't own the 4th variant. So I don't have access to the really OP ARCs.

It's quirks need tweaking, but no hard nerfs need be applied to it, not for a while.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 August 2015 - 05:58 AM.

[Seelenlos]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

^This, is absolutely stupid.

We're not saying leg all mechs. Light mechs excel at moving very quickly from point A to point B, which makes aiming at them to land killing blows on their STs, and CTs, very difficult. So to make the job easier, we take a leg out, and we slow them down to a crawl. It's called thinking, and using different tactics, to deal with different threats. Much like how we take out the Right torso on most Atlai, and the left torso on all ECM mechs (except KFX, always go for the Right Arm on that one)

I think you don't get the point:

What is the difference in hitting a mech legs vs hitting it's torso, when the whole hitbox is a problem in that you can leg a mech faster than getting his torsos?

I do not want get the advantage of cheeta in doing it over distances of 150 meters. But the nearer they are they easier they must be killed, without any excuse of hitboxes. You get near an AC20 you die 100% for sure without any Hitbox here and netcode there help you out.

[IraqiWalker]

Seelenlos, on 08 August 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

I think you don't get the point:

What is the difference in hitting a mech legs vs hitting it's torso, when the whole hitbox is a problem in that you can leg a mech faster than getting his torsos?

I do not want get the advantage of cheeta in doing it over distances of 150 meters. But the nearer they are they easier they must be killed, without any excuse of hitboxes. You get near an AC20 you die 100% for sure without any Hitbox here and netcode there help you out.

Let me explain this to you using simple math:

Side Torso has (before quirks) 34 HP +. Leg has 40+ (before quirks).

So it seems like hitting the torso is the better option. However, hitting the torso with the mech going at full speed your chances are 5%. You just won't hit the torso.

So instead, use that damage on the legs, which are a bigger hitbox, and much easier to hit, to cripple the mech, so that the rest of your damage can be applied to the torso with a chance of 95%+

I'm not sure what it is you're talking about with them being nearer, but usually, the nearer they are the easier they are to kill already. So I don't get what you're complaining about there.

However, TL;DR: Lights needing to get legged before being killed, is working as it should be. This is already the hardest class to pilot, and the most fragile mechs in the game, bar none. Giving them bigger hitboxes to make them even easier to kill is just wrong.


EDIT: For the record, most lights are already nerfed enough, by not being allowed to go at their real full speeds. (netcode gets wonky after a mech hits 180 Kph. A Com-1B with max engine should be going 215+. A Locust with an XL 190 should be going 240+, and around 320 with MASC)

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 August 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[Seelenlos]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Let me explain this to you using simple math:

Side Torso has (before quirks) 34 HP +. Leg has 40+ (before quirks).

So it seems like hitting the torso is the better option. However, hitting the torso with the mech going at full speed your chances are 5%. You just won't hit the torso.

So instead, use that damage on the legs, which are a bigger hitbox, and much easier to hit, to cripple the mech, so that the rest of your damage can be applied to the torso with a chance of 95%+

I'm not sure what it is you're talking about with them being nearer, but usually, the nearer they are the easier they are to kill already. So I don't get what you're complaining about there.

However, TL;DR: Lights needing to get legged before being killed, is working as it should be. This is already the hardest class to pilot, and the most fragile mechs in the game, bar none. Giving them bigger hitboxes to make them even easier to kill is just wrong.


EDIT: For the record, most lights are already nerfed enough, by not being allowed to go at their real full speeds. (netcode gets wonky after a mech hits 180 Kph. A Com-1B with max engine should be going 215+. A Locust with an XL 190 should be going 240+, and around 320 with MASC)

I wanted to let you comment be, but before this writing, i have played a match with a LEGGED Cheeta, still get not full hit by missiles, because it was walking!!!

LOL, calculate your theories and everything in life, I STAY WITH THE WISDOM, PRACTICALS SHITS ON THEORY!

Cheeta needs Nerf and what Nerf ! about 20% and a torso hit-box like Cicada!!!

Then come along and see if you are good loser noobs.

[Kodyn]

Yes, they can be annoying, but Seelenlos, you're taking it to another level.

It's pretty much a guarantee they will be nerfed, because PGI is very reactive lately, and things that have been complained about a lot less than the Cheetah have been changed. They're also probably going to wreck face slightly too hard to be balanced for CW, so there's that.

The FS and Spider got nerfs, or at least the FS did, Spider got nerfed simply by them fixing hitreg. The point is, it won't be long, and there will be some adjustments made, you can bet on it.

You can also bet it won't be any 20% difference in anything however, probably just some small tweaks to the hitbox and quirks, which is really all it would need. It doesn't take much for a light to go from god-mode to easily killed.

@Iraqi- I can't even imagine piloting lights going at those speeds man, I'm kinda glad they don't. I regularly pilot a RVN-3L and a SDR-5D, and those are fast enough, my basic-only PB is already approaching too fast for me to handle lol.

[Seelenlos]

Kodyn, on 08 August 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Yes, they can be annoying, but Seelenlos, you're taking it to another level.

It's pretty much a guarantee they will be nerfed, because PGI is very reactive lately, and things that have been complained about a lot less than the Cheetah have been changed. They're also probably going to wreck face slightly too hard to be balanced for CW, so there's that.

The FS and Spider got nerfs, or at least the FS did, Spider got nerfed simply by them fixing hitreg. The point is, it won't be long, and there will be some adjustments made, you can bet on it.

You can also bet it won't be any 20% difference in anything however, probably just some small tweaks to the hitbox and quirks, which is really all it would need. It doesn't take much for a light to go from god-mode to easily killed.

@Iraqi- I can't even imagine piloting lights going at those speeds man, I'm kinda glad they don't. I regularly pilot a RVN-3L and a SDR-5D, and those are fast enough, my basic-only PB is already approaching too fast for me to handle lol.

nice comment but what does that helps me now, with my play fun?

THIS THINGS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN, If there is someone with real brains behind the scene!

Now we must write and bring examples till THEY BELIEVE us that we are right, instead of working on real good code for this not to happen...

The only thing is like before 3 or 5 months, that the player base should stop playing and till the director in the background gets nervous and change things... this is not smart, this is driven from outside...

And another example: just a match before this writing, the Cheeta STOOD right before the Hunchback hitting him 2x with AC/20, LOL not hit registration !!!

Why should i lose my k/d-Ratio to another player this way. He knows that he is cheating, and PGI also allows it by implementing cheating this way.

If MWO had a record function, at least you could send the dev a replay and they see what their codes doing.

I am going to find a cheat program to, hopefully a legal one.

[Celtic Warrior]

[Fleeb the Mad]

If it makes you feel better I still hate Firestarters.

They've just been completely supplanted by these mechs, because they are better in every measurable way, mostly owing to the Clan tech base. The presence of Firestarters on the field has dropped dramatically.

[amenophis]

Seelenlos, on 05 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

I saw how 2 arctic cheetah took out 6 other clanser...

THAT is too much for a light mech.

change hit reg on torso a bit higher.

Then all is on then.

Regards

Don't complain because you can't beat on of these.

[IraqiWalker]

Seelenlos, on 08 August 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

I wanted to let you comment be, but before this writing, i have played a match with a LEGGED Cheeta, still get not full hit by missiles, because it was walking!!!

LOL, calculate your theories and everything in life, I STAY WITH THE WISDOM, PRACTICALS SHITS ON THEORY!

Cheeta needs Nerf and what Nerf ! about 20% and a torso hit-box like Cicada!!!

Then come along and see if you are good loser noobs.

1- no need for insults, you already showed you lack the brain capacity to pilot a mech right, if you still miss on a legged cheetah.

2- HSR is a different matter altogether. If HSR made some of your hits not register that's one thing, but if you missed a legged cheetah, then you are just bad. (Also, I did say 95% odds, that 5% accounts for those who are bad at aiming). Honestly, if you missed a cheetah going under 40Kph, the cheetah might as well have been standing, and you'd still miss it. That's YOUR fault, not the mech. You would have missed an ATLAS going 40Kph.

3- Glad you said practical application is important, because it really is, and so far almost every single player is telling you that you are wrong. Because we use experience, and actually go out there, and fight against these things, and kill them.

4- The cheetah might need at MOST some of it's structure quirks removed. You being too blind to hit it in the leg, or the torso while it's still slower than a cicada is YOUR FAULT. Not the mech's.

5- Using "loser noobs" at the end of your comment really showed your colors. It really showed us that you're bad.

6- I pilot commandos mostly. Ask anyone in the forums if there is a weaker mech than a commando, and if there's a mech that needs more help than a commando. Those are my top mechs, along with assaults like the King Crab. I pilot the 2 most difficult weight classes in the game, and you call me a noob, because you don't know how to hit a light with lasers or streaks.

TL;DR: You're bad, yes the cheetah might need some tweaking, but nothing as stupid as what you suggest, and go learn to aim please.


EDIT: If you want, I can actually help you learn how to fight lights, and how to take down a cheetah properly. I have the practical knowledge, and the experience, as someone that both pilots lights (including the cheetah), and someone who hunts lights. Hell, I even trained several light pilots myself.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 August 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[Kodyn]

I'd like to point out to all the clan guys trying to turn this into another IS vs Clam thing that half of us saying things about the Cheetah actually play both sides...

I play IS lights through assaults, though mostly light, heavy, assault, and clan heavies, though I have time logged in Crows and foxes as well.

I'm pretty much ok with IS vs clan balance...it's still a bit off, but that's not at all what this is about. Please learn how to hold an intelligent conversation and stop throwing Clan vs IS bs out at every opportunity, just makes you look like idiots I'm afraid, and erodes any shell of an argument you might have otherwise had.

[Chocowolf Sradac]

The Cheetah doesn't need a nerf if you consider how long the IS has relied on it's still broken Firestarters and other mechs i.e Stalkers, thunderbolts and grid irons etc

It's nice that the Clan has a mech that can now equally combat these mechs and they really are not hard to kill you just need to aim better

Edited by Chocowolf, 08 August 2015 - 07:11 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Chocowolf, on 08 August 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

The Cheetah doesn't need a nerf if you consider how long the IS has relied on it's still broken Firestarters and other mechs i.e Stalkers, thunderbolts and grid irons etc

It's nice that the Clan has a mech that can now equally combat these mechs and they really are not hard to kill you just need to aim better

While I agree. The ACH is still a 30 ton light with more armor and health than any IS 35 tonner.


EDIT: Except maybe the awful panther

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 August 2015 - 07:15 PM.