151 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

Also, the IS pilots chose to only have 4-5 comp-level mechs to compete with clans, right?

Oh wait...no, that was PGI with the Quirkening...so yeah, let's keep blaming IS pilots for using the only few mechs they have that can consistently compete with clan tech, that's a good line. Meanwhile clan has a comp-level mech in every weight class now, that flat-out outclasses it's IS counterparts, by at least a little, to a lot.

Again, I'm not the one complaining about balance, but don't dish it when what you're spewing is utter and complete bs...and it most certainly without a doubt is.

Yes, it's true that many of the people complaining about Cheetahs probably have trouble with FS and other lights too, and probably aren't good enough shots to hit legs.

It's also true that while those pilots' reasoning may be flawed, the end result is the same. Even good players have some trouble with the Cheetahs unless the stars align. I'm pretty sure everyone who claims they have zero trouble at all is a Cheetah pilot defending their ride, just as they claim everyone else is only attacking it.

Look at the Hellbringer after it was out a few days, look at TBR....they release clans with higher performance, see how they do, get the sales, then drop em down to reasonable levels, it's just how PGI does things, it's not like we the players are making this stuff up, it's happened, and is happening, and will continue to.

[IraqiWalker]

Kodyn, on 08 August 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

Also, the IS pilots chose to only have 4-5 comp-level mechs to compete with clans, right?

Oh wait...no, that was PGI with the Quirkening...so yeah, let's keep blaming IS pilots for using the only few mechs they have that can consistently compete with clan tech, that's a good line. Meanwhile clan has a comp-level mech in every weight class now, that flat-out outclasses it's IS counterparts, by at least a little, to a lot.

Again, I'm not the one complaining about balance, but don't dish it when what you're spewing is utter and complete bs...and it most certainly without a doubt is.

Yes, it's true that many of the people complaining about Cheetahs probably have trouble with FS and other lights too, and probably aren't good enough shots to hit legs.

It's also true that while those pilots' reasoning may be flawed, the end result is the same. Even good players have some trouble with the Cheetahs unless the stars align. I'm pretty sure everyone who claims they have zero trouble at all is a Cheetah pilot defending their ride, just as they claim everyone else is only attacking it.

Look at the Hellbringer after it was out a few days, look at TBR....they release clans with higher performance, see how they do, get the sales, then drop em down to reasonable levels, it's just how PGI does things, it's not like we the players are making this stuff up, it's happened, and is happening, and will continue to.

QFT

[Wildstreak]

Cheetah is a 5 ton lighter Firestarter with ECM that is getting the radius reduced sometime, less team cover, more LRMs.

Cheetahs can do well.

Edited by Wildstreak, 08 August 2015 - 08:01 PM.

[Death Prime]

Ok Is pilots have got 2 and I repeat "2" Comp style mechs the Spyder and the Firestarter. You guys just need to man up and accept the lore that clan tech is somewhat superior but also flawed in it's own right.

Train better to hit moving targets if you think there op then try again. Stop complaining and as we say in League of Legends. "It's time to break the meta. DEAL WITH IT". You got more IS mechs vs Clan mechs in terms of variants and numbers.
Suck it up buttercups and play the game. If you don't like it and still piss anting about it. Uninstall and go play some tetris.

[Kodyn]

Death Prime, on 08 August 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Ok Is pilots have got 2 and I repeat "2" Comp style mechs the Spyder and the Firestarter. You guys just need to man up and accept the lore that clan tech is somewhat superior but also flawed in it's own right.

Train better to hit moving targets if you think there op then try again. Stop complaining and as we say in League of Legends. "It's time to break the meta. DEAL WITH IT". You got more IS mechs vs Clan mechs in terms of variants and numbers.
Suck it up buttercups and play the game. If you don't like it and still piss anting about it. Uninstall and go play some tetris.

So, stop using the feedback forum for feedback? Erm....no.

Also, you liked your own post...so...fail..

[IraqiWalker]

Death Prime, on 08 August 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Ok Is pilots have got 2 and I repeat "2" Comp style mechs the Spyder and the Firestarter. You guys just need to man up and accept the lore that clan tech is somewhat superior but also flawed in it's own right.

Train better to hit moving targets if you think there op then try again. Stop complaining and as we say in League of Legends. "It's time to break the meta. DEAL WITH IT". You got more IS mechs vs Clan mechs in terms of variants and numbers.
Suck it up buttercups and play the game. If you don't like it and still piss anting about it. Uninstall and go play some tetris.

You're new here so I'll give you a few tips:

1- NEVER use the "clan tech is superior" argument. It never goes well, and derails the thread at worst into proving you wrong.

2- The mech has problems. Just not as massive as many have made it out to be. The ACH is a 30 ton mech with more armor and health than any IS 35 tonner. While still using Clan XL, and clan weapons. Only an idiot can't see a problem with that

3- L2P is clearly not the issue here (for most of us anyways), since we have people who have been grinding lights since this game came out saying that it's got problems.

4- I want you to go to smurfy, and make me a build with the SDR-5D that can even match, the arctic cheetah. The 5D is only in comp play because of ECM. Period. It doesn't even count as a competitive light, because it's loadout is crap.

5- Never like your own posts. People will always take that to mean something you might not intend.

6- Welcome to the MWO forums, where we discuss things, and your opinion is not the absolute truth.

[Kodyn]

TY Iraqi, was coming back to edit in some of those same things, as I had gotten a drop when I was writing the initial, but you got it covered.

For the record, none of us are trying to be argumentative d|cks, Death and others, we're just observing facts within the game. It's not an IS vs Clan thing, an us vs them thing, or anything of the sort. It's just objective observation and feedback, which is exactly what this forum is here for.

This is not LoL(aptly named...), this is not WoW, this is MWO, where the Devs ask us for our opinions, we give them, and if they're legit, they act on them when changes should be made. It's actually a pretty good system, when it works, which lately, has been often.

This isn't the kind of game that stays static, where we just have to deal and L2P...especially, as Iraqi said, as most of us discussing this do know what we're doing already, and can adapt to the ACH. It's nothing personal.

[Hoflich]

Ok. I've never posted in the forums to complain but the arctic cheaters are just too much.

5 AC20 shots to their center torso and no hits.

Hit box needs to be fixed asap, also their heat, they don't seem to overheat at all even with all those lasers they use.

Firestarters are a PIA but you can at least kill them.

Höff

[Dino Might]

Rad Hanzo, on 06 August 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

Ahhhh, all the tears .
THEY ARE DELICIOUS !

Thanks for all the complainers exposing themselves as zero-skill "I-win"-button mashers, your opinions have been noted and dismissed as being not important .

Why am I such an arse and dismissing all your "extremely valid" (note the sarcasm here please) opinions from the equation ?
Because :
1: Firestarter
2: Spider
3: Jenner
4: Commando

4 different chassis which all are able to battle against one serious challenger from the other side of the fence AND YOU GUYS STILL CANT MAKE YOUR OWN MACHINES WORK GOOD AGAINST THAT ONE SINGLE THREAT ?

Dismissed, case closed, whiners/"I-Win"button-mashers detected and exposed, daily work done .

Did you just lump the Commando in with the Firestarter?

Hold on, I gotta go check my meds...

[Kodyn]

And they keep throwing Spider in there, when it's not really all that great. It's just the "other" ecm light option besides 3L for most situations, but comp players don't really touch Mandos, or Spiders that much, if at all.

FS and Jenner, yes, but the Jenner is by no means OP, and by no means a clan killer...it's just a good, agile light in the hands of a good pilot, that's it.

The only tears I've seen are from all the clan guys inexplicably ignoring logic, facts, and reality, and just spouting nonsense to watch themselves type and get their e-b0ner for the day. I consider myself in between IS and Clan, because I like both, use each when I'm in the mood, so I tend to want to find it amusing, but the arguments are so bad that I just feel sorry for them.

But, you know...interwebz be interwebz....trolls be trollin'.

Edited by Kodyn, 08 August 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[Dino Might]

Death Prime, on 08 August 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Ok Is pilots have got 2 and I repeat "2" Comp style mechs the Spyder and the Firestarter. You guys just need to man up and accept the lore that clan tech is somewhat superior but also flawed in it's own right.

Train better to hit moving targets if you think there op then try again. Stop complaining and as we say in League of Legends. "It's time to break the meta. DEAL WITH IT". You got more IS mechs vs Clan mechs in terms of variants and numbers.
Suck it up buttercups and play the game. If you don't like it and still piss anting about it. Uninstall and go play some tetris.

It's a 12 v 12 game. Having more available options doesn't help if those options are notably worse. The "suck it up" answer is one that many players were given when Firestarters were destroying the queues. That answer was unacceptable, based on how many raged day and night on the forums. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly all is right with the world? Hypocrisy abounds.

Firestarter is still notably better than other lights. Cheetah is notably better than the Firestarter. Lights overall are in an okay place with those two, but I'd argue slightly OP compared to the other chassis types if we focus on those two. Now, looking at all the other lights, the FS9 and ACH are so significantly better that it really makes things boring.

I don't know about you, but I prefer some variety and a more balanced game.

Edited by Dino Might, 08 August 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kodyn, on 08 August 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

TY Iraqi, was coming back to edit in some of those same things, as I had gotten a drop when I was writing the initial, but you got it covered.

For the record, none of us are trying to be argumentative d|cks, Death and others, we're just observing facts within the game. It's not an IS vs Clan thing, an us vs them thing, or anything of the sort. It's just objective observation and feedback, which is exactly what this forum is here for.

This is not LoL(aptly named...), this is not WoW, this is MWO, where the Devs ask us for our opinions, we give them, and if they're legit, they act on them when changes should be made. It's actually a pretty good system, when it works, which lately, has been often.

This isn't the kind of game that stays static, where we just have to deal and L2P...especially, as Iraqi said, as most of us discussing this do know what we're doing already, and can adapt to the ACH. It's nothing personal.

Especially considering most of us IS pilots were here defending the ACH, and saying it doesn't need such a big nerf. It definitely needs some fixing, but the excessive whining about it is a bit much as well.

Hoflich, on 08 August 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Ok. I've never posted in the forums to complain but the arctic cheaters are just too much.

5 AC20 shots to their center torso and no hits.

Hit box needs to be fixed asap, also their heat, they don't seem to overheat at all even with all those lasers they use.

Firestarters are a PIA but you can at least kill them.

Höff

HSR does exacerbate light mech prblems

Dino Might, on 08 August 2015 - 09:17 PM, said:

Did you just lump the Commando in with the Firestarter?

Hold on, I gotta go check my meds...

I had to do a triple take on that one as well.

Dino Might, on 08 August 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

It's a 12 v 12 game. Having more available options doesn't help if those options are notably worse. The "suck it up" answer is one that many players were given when Firestarters were destroying the queues. That answer was unacceptable, based on how many raged day and night on the forums. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly all is right with the world? Hypocrisy abounds.

Firestarter is still notably better than other lights. Cheetah is notably better than the Firestarter. Lights overall are in an okay place with those two, but I'd argue slightly OP compared to the other chassis types if we focus on those two. Now, looking at all the other lights, the FS9 and ACH are so significantly better that it really makes things boring.

I don't know about you, but I prefer some variety and a more balanced game.

Thank you.

[Amardez]

Most of there complaints seem to boil down to I am having problems killing said mech, if you are having that many issues killing lights go grab some streaks .... IS are just used to being spoiled by having overly larger light targets ie kitfox and Adder. Now there are 2 small Clan lights one one of which now holds a flame to the Fire-starter yeah they are a pain do what people have been doing vs fire-starters and runs streaks or send another similar light to hunt it right tool for the job people.

[IraqiWalker]

Amardez, on 08 August 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Most of there complaints seem to boil down to I am having problems killing said mech, if you are having that many issues killing lights go grab some streaks .... IS are just used to being spoiled by having overly larger light targets ie kitfox and Adder. Now there are 2 small Clan lights one one of which now holds a flame to the Fire-starter yeah they are a pain do what people have been doing vs fire-starters and runs streaks or send another similar light to hunt it right tool for the job people.

That argument really doesn't work, because IS pilots have been dealing with "small" IS lights longer than clans have been in the game.

Also, make no mistake, the ACH in my book is better than the FS9. Simply because it:
1- Weighs less, while having more health, and armor
2- Brings as much, if not more firepower
3- All while packing plenty of JJs, and ECM

This is coming from an ACH owner, and lover.

[Skarlock]

PFC Carsten, on 07 August 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Execpt the Cheaters are immune to 1 ST loss (Clan XL) and they are insivible to radar (ECM) - quite an advantage, not counting the higher range of cMPL.

Cheetahs typically don't use cMPLs because they are too heavy. You only get 8 total tons of gear, 7 tons with ECM, unless you strip armor like a madman. You can do 4 cMPLs if you drop ecm or strip insane amounts of armor, but your build will be weak compared to 3 cMPLs which would only have a 24 pt alpha, and still weaker by far than 6 er smalls or 6 cSPLs.

That being said, their range with SPLs at 186 meters or er smalls at 220 meters is only slightly shorter than inner sphere MPLs at 242 meters (with range modules for all respective mechs). You can also take a targeting computer on the cheetah, but keep in mind it doesn't get the same kind of energy heat reduction the firestarter gets, nor does it get the same number of true double heat sinks (9 vs. 10 on most firestarter builds), so you probably really want that extra heat sink instead.

Overall I think the cheetah does need to be toned down some, I just hope PGI doesn't nerf it into oblivion. The main issue I see is that you can't simply give clans the best mechs in every single weight category. I guess it doesn't matter as much since few people are playing CW these days, but still, it's really not fair to IS or anyone who prefers IS mechs to have *every single top tier mech* be clan in every category. At this point I really don't think any other lights compare to the cheetah, period. This whole thing will pop up yet again when the Jenner IIC, the non-ecm, superior guns version of the cheetah comes into play.

[Mazzyplz]

the survivability of this thing is off the charts, i shoot it and it doesn't even register, and when in a blue moon you manage to "cripple" one with a sidetorso coring that would kill a firestarter, it just laughs and keeps shooting you dead

firestarter was barely balanced in the old metagame, this new arctic clanner is insane.

it one ups the best mech we used to have, why are you so bad at this pgi?

you saw ttk was gettin lower so you decide to release overpowered mechs like the iic versions of stuff for clans and the cheetah?

all this after srm and ppc have been all but forgotten and you even buff pulses from 10.5 to 11?? LOL

ebon jag was balanced but just barely, this new batch of stuff just breaks the game

[Seelenlos]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

1- no need for insults, you already showed you lack the brain capacity to pilot a mech right, if you still miss on a legged cheetah.

2- HSR is a different matter altogether. If HSR made some of your hits not register that's one thing, but if you missed a legged cheetah, then you are just bad. (Also, I did say 95% odds, that 5% accounts for those who are bad at aiming). Honestly, if you missed a cheetah going under 40Kph, the cheetah might as well have been standing, and you'd still miss it. That's YOUR fault, not the mech. You would have missed an ATLAS going 40Kph.

3- Glad you said practical application is important, because it really is, and so far almost every single player is telling you that you are wrong. Because we use experience, and actually go out there, and fight against these things, and kill them.

4- The cheetah might need at MOST some of it's structure quirks removed. You being too blind to hit it in the leg, or the torso while it's still slower than a cicada is YOUR FAULT. Not the mech's.

5- Using "loser noobs" at the end of your comment really showed your colors. It really showed us that you're bad.

6- I pilot commandos mostly. Ask anyone in the forums if there is a weaker mech than a commando, and if there's a mech that needs more help than a commando. Those are my top mechs, along with assaults like the King Crab. I pilot the 2 most difficult weight classes in the game, and you call me a noob, because you don't know how to hit a light with lasers or streaks.

TL;DR: You're bad, yes the cheetah might need some tweaking, but nothing as stupid as what you suggest, and go learn to aim please.


EDIT: If you want, I can actually help you learn how to fight lights, and how to take down a cheetah properly. I have the practical knowledge, and the experience, as someone that both pilots lights (including the cheetah), and someone who hunts lights. Hell, I even trained several light pilots myself.

Though I like your explanations the "Insult" (you think) goes to all who think theory is more advanced than the practics.

It was not me with AV/20, it was a Pilot with 6 kills in that match. So telling this guy sucks to get a kill on ACH is like sayin 1-1=1
Then WHO is here insulting?

Second, as told, sadly no chat record option to show that not only other players claim the mech is OP, but also the Cheeta-Players in the matches say it is OP. LOL

You are right:
I am not saying this mech must be nerf over its technical build. It should stay the way it is, it is a clan mech: superior BUT
Its HIT-BOX must raise to 10x when it is near from 150-250 ( this must be good calculated).

I now kill Cheetas after i changed to SRM. Better I **** THEM NOW. Its fun to see when they come near me and seconds later they run with their digital ARSES ****** by me.

But it is still no go that you only can hit certain mechs with certain weapon, WHICH actualy have to have less hit probiblity as in TT.

in TT an AC20 hit is FEAR, here you run in front of a 2x AC20 mech and digitalshit on his face. NO GO.

Here is PGI guilty.

I am done with this thread i started, maybe you all come to a conclusion, mine is srm and **** the game mechanics... sad ...

[D A T A]

CHEETAH IS FINE

all nerfs on clan mechs should be removed

[bad arcade kitty]

Skarlock, on 08 August 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

Cheetahs typically don't use cMPLs because they are too heavy. You only get 8 total tons of gear, 7 tons with ECM, unless you strip armor like a madman. You can do 4 cMPLs if you drop ecm or strip insane amounts of armor, but your build will be weak compared to 3 cMPLs which would only have a 24 pt alpha, and still weaker by far than 6 er smalls or 6 cSPLs.

That being said, their range with SPLs at 186 meters or er smalls at 220 meters is only slightly shorter than inner sphere MPLs at 242 meters (with range modules for all respective mechs). You can also take a targeting computer on the cheetah, but keep in mind it doesn't get the same kind of energy heat reduction the firestarter gets, nor does it get the same number of true double heat sinks (9 vs. 10 on most firestarter builds), so you probably really want that extra heat sink instead.

for a medium range build you can run the classic lynx's one of 4 ml, 5 is probably too hot

[Amardez]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

That argument really doesn't work, because IS pilots have been dealing with "small" IS lights longer than clans have been in the game.

Also, make no mistake, the ACH in my book is better than the FS9. Simply because it:
1- Weighs less, while having more health, and armor
2- Brings as much, if not more firepower
3- All while packing plenty of JJs, and ECM

This is coming from an ACH owner, and lover.

Since the split of Clan and IS the Clans have been dealing with small frame is mechs which were faster and could move a lot easier through the clan heavies and assaults. Before the clan launch there was no real differentiation between sides so the IS as it stands has not been dealing with Lights longer any more than i was a IS player before i played clans i.e that is i was a Merc player then clans launched then I picked a clan.

So what if it has more armor and HP armor costs tonnage and lets face it you want all the Heat-sinks you get get on an ACH. So not an issue i have not seen many of my Unit members maxing their armor most are trimming it to get more heat sinks on or more SRM/S.SRM ammo.

DPS I have not seen a ACH beat a Fire-starter in DPS with pilots of similar skill though yeah i admit that is a hard call to make but i certainly see Fire-starter A's with a crazy array of quirked to the 9s stuffed with a massive engine and a load of small pulse laser. Which makes them as good if not better the the clans small pluse lasers on the ACH.

Yeah they have JJ and ECM the Fire-starter a can have JJ too the only issue I see is ECM and it is about the get nerfed to half range so.

In the end the only real difference is the ACH has lower DPS the fire-starter has more. The Fire-starter has no ecm and the ACH has Ecm.

In the end my statement of right tools for the job stand grab a narc and streaks or tag. Send your Fire-starter pilots to go get.

Oh and for the Record yeah i own them as I own all the clan Mechs(though i have not even skilled them all to the basic level).
Personally I like the Mad Dogs and War Hawks.