56 replies to this topic

[Strikeshadow]

Is it really that hard to simply import MW4's mechbay or at least copy its layout? It's worlds better than the even the new mechbay. Why try and re-invent the wheel? It boggles my mind that the developers spend so much time and energy trying to design a game feature that was already designed well. They have a license for Mechwarrior after all.

[Surn]

I think the answer comes down to Mwo requires mechs to be purchased not just configured.

[Strikeshadow]

MechregSurn, on 06 August 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

I think the answer comes down to Mwo requires mechs to be purchased not just configured.

But it would make purchased mechs so much easier to equip. In MW4 we just strip all the mechs and save configurations we like. Then when we want to use that configuration, we click 1 time and the mech is fully equipped the way we want it. We just keep the mechs we want to use equipped and when we want to switch to a different configuration, we can do so in just 1 click.

The biggest problem with MWO mechbay is the inability to save unequipped configurations.

[o0Marduk0o]

No thanks.

Buy the same mech again, when you want to save the time to rebuild it. Your suggestion is bad from a business standpoint.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 06 August 2015 - 09:28 AM.

[Strikeshadow]

o0Marduk0o, on 06 August 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

No thanks.

Buy the same mech again, when you want to save the time to rebuild it. Your suggestion is bad from a business standpoint.

I disagree; League of Legends (another free to play game) has the same concept and they are making 10,000 times the money that MWO makes.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 06 August 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Strikeshadow, on 06 August 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I disagree; League of Legends (another free to play game) has the same concept and they are making 10,000 times the money that MWO makes.

You fail to get the differences? You don't build a char before you start a match in LoL. You build the char during the match.

[Savage Wolf]

o0Marduk0o, on 06 August 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

You fail to get the differences? You don't build a char before you start a match in LoL. You build the char during the match.

Apparently you don't know about masteries or rune pages. Those are build before the match in LOL.

[MauttyKoray]

Savage Wolf, on 06 August 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

Apparently you don't know about masteries or rune pages. Those are build before the match in LOL.

That would be the equivalent of the skills page, not the loadout. Also, you could NOT save different mech variants in MW4 except for MULTIPLAYER where every mech was always available to you. If you ever played the single player, specifically Mercenaries, you would know that each mech only had a SINGLE loadout that you could save.

MWO uses a system similar to that because we're purchasing each chassis and the weapons and equipment to go with them. We don't just magically have access to every mech, weapon, piece of equipment and unlimited free upgrades, and personally I'm okay with that.

This same system was used in Mechcommander too, when you had limited resources available at any given time.

[Strikeshadow]

MauttyKoray, on 06 August 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

That would be the equivalent of the skills page, not the loadout. Also, you could NOT save different mech variants in MW4 except for MULTIPLAYER where every mech was always available to you. If you ever played the single player, specifically Mercenaries, you would know that each mech only had a SINGLE loadout that you could save.

MWO uses a system similar to that because we're purchasing each chassis and the weapons and equipment to go with them. We don't just magically have access to every mech, weapon, piece of equipment and unlimited free upgrades, and personally I'm okay with that.

This same system was used in Mechcommander too, when you had limited resources available at any given time.

Well if you don't know how to save a build order list in LoL, you haven't played it much. It is like saving a mech configuration before using it. And we had to buy MW4 with money not magic.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 06 August 2015 - 06:24 PM.

[gloowa]

Could we not? I remember being constantly infuriated with MW4 mechlab. Not the least by the fact that the mech select dropdown was so narrow that it contained a mech name and maybe 5 more characters, which made naming them useless. Also, the item list was horribad. 4 items listed on the entire screen, endless scrolling in search of that LPL in the middle of all other energy weapons. Worse experience than trying to find specific weapon skill on pilot skills screen.

[Savage Wolf]

MauttyKoray, on 06 August 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

That would be the equivalent of the skills page, not the loadout. Also, you could NOT save different mech variants in MW4 except for MULTIPLAYER where every mech was always available to you. If you ever played the single player, specifically Mercenaries, you would know that each mech only had a SINGLE loadout that you could save.

MWO uses a system similar to that because we're purchasing each chassis and the weapons and equipment to go with them. We don't just magically have access to every mech, weapon, piece of equipment and unlimited free upgrades, and personally I'm okay with that.

This same system was used in Mechcommander too, when you had limited resources available at any given time.

Skills in MWO are not configurations because in the end, you can have them all. Masteries and Runes are configurations where you are limited in what you can take. Runes even require you to have them in your inventory from the shop similar to loadouts for mechs. The difference however is that the same rune can be used on two rune pages, where in mechwarrior we need to have two modules to put it on two different mechs. So it is comparable, MWO just wants us to grind more.

[Strikeshadow]

Savage Wolf, on 07 August 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

Skills in MWO are not configurations because in the end, you can have them all. Masteries and Runes are configurations where you are limited in what you can take. Runes even require you to have them in your inventory from the shop similar to loadouts for mechs. The difference however is that the same rune can be used on two rune pages, where in mechwarrior we need to have two modules to put it on two different mechs. So it is comparable, MWO just wants us to grind more.

I noticed you completely ignored my point about saving a build order list.....

Edited by Strikeshadow, 07 August 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[Strikeshadow]

gloowa, on 07 August 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Could we not? I remember being constantly infuriated with MW4 mechlab. Not the least by the fact that the mech select dropdown was so narrow that it contained a mech name and maybe 5 more characters, which made naming them useless. Also, the item list was horribad. 4 items listed on the entire screen, endless scrolling in search of that LPL in the middle of all other energy weapons. Worse experience than trying to find specific weapon skill on pilot skills screen.

But once you saved a build it was one click to use it on another mech....

[IraqiWalker]

Strikeshadow, on 07 August 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

I noticed you completely ignored my point about saving a build order list.....

Strikeshadow, on 07 August 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

But once you saved a build it was one click to use it on another mech....

Irrelevant. Since that is unrelated to the horribad layout of MW4.

Also, remember that the MW4 mechlab had NO UPGRADES. You couldn't change structure, or heatsink type. We've wanted a "saved loadout" feature for a while. The main problem has always been the fact that upgrades are the main issue, and the database has a problem with "get" calls for the items needed to make the build. Especially if you had enough MLs yesterday for the builds, but today, you don't because you tweaked a different mech's build.

There are too many problems with inventory, and database construction for them to implement that feature.

You probably would have received more accurate replies if you said you wanted a "saved loadout" or something along those lines. Instead of "MW4 Mechbay". Which was the definition of aggravating.

[Savage Wolf]

Lets separate the discussion from MW4's layout and way to build a mech since that is not what is suggested and focus on saving a loadout which is the desired feature. And while an inventory system with limited resources does complicate things it should be doable as simply a template and if components are now missing, you simply have to buy them again. There might be technical problems with that in the way they build the system, but still, it could be done if they wanted to use time on it.

However, why are we even using an inventory system in an online shooter? Because it's a bad excuse for more grinding. And that is also why they don't want to give you this feature (unless enough scream for it) because they want you to grind.

[Strikeshadow]

Savage Wolf, on 07 August 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Lets separate the discussion from MW4's layout and way to build a mech since that is not what is suggested and focus on saving a loadout which is the desired feature. And while an inventory system with limited resources does complicate things it should be doable as simply a template and if components are now missing, you simply have to buy them again. There might be technical problems with that in the way they build the system, but still, it could be done if they wanted to use time on it.

However, why are we even using an inventory system in an online shooter? Because it's a bad excuse for more grinding. And that is also why they don't want to give you this feature (unless enough scream for it) because they want you to grind.

I'm think this is the answer in a nutshell. My point is that it is a bad business plan because successful online ftp games are much more user friendly and less grindy.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 07 August 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Strikeshadow, on 07 August 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

I'm think this is the answer in a nutshell. My point is that it is a bad business plan because successful online ftp games are much more user friendly and less grindy.

The average grind in LoL to get a 6300 champion is about 85 matches.

The average grind to get a 20,000,000 C-Bill mech (most expensive ones in the game) in MWO is about 140 matches. Barring hero mechs, or premium time.

With Premium time 20,000,000 C-Bills takes 95 matches.

This is of course before factoring in that our mechs, or some of their parts can be sold back, to refund part of the cost.

For example, I have 5 STD 340s that I can sell right now to generate 10 million C-Bills. I'm not using those engines anyways.

So if you adjust for the parts you can sell, and the cyclability of inventory items, the grind is actually not as bad as it seems.

[Savage Wolf]

IraqiWalker, on 07 August 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

The average grind in LoL to get a 6300 champion is about 85 matches.

The average grind to get a 20,000,000 C-Bill mech (most expensive ones in the game) in MWO is about 140 matches. Barring hero mechs, or premium time.

With Premium time 20,000,000 C-Bills takes 95 matches.

This is of course before factoring in that our mechs, or some of their parts can be sold back, to refund part of the cost.

For example, I have 5 STD 340s that I can sell right now to generate 10 million C-Bills. I'm not using those engines anyways.

So if you adjust for the parts you can sell, and the cyclability of inventory items, the grind is actually not as bad as it seems.

I don't usually need that many matches to get 6300 IP but I also usually play a few matches a day and so get the first win of the day bonus more often. Also, once I got that champ, I can use it with any configuration. That expensive mech is just one configuration so if I want three configurations, then triple the grind.

Want that rune in LOL, yeah you need to grind, but then you can use it for all the champs you have at the same time. Want two mechs to have the same module in MWO? Double that grind.

[Strikeshadow]

IraqiWalker, on 07 August 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

The average grind in LoL to get a 6300 champion is about 85 matches.

The average grind to get a 20,000,000 C-Bill mech (most expensive ones in the game) in MWO is about 140 matches. Barring hero mechs, or premium time.

With Premium time 20,000,000 C-Bills takes 95 matches.

This is of course before factoring in that our mechs, or some of their parts can be sold back, to refund part of the cost.

For example, I have 5 STD 340s that I can sell right now to generate 10 million C-Bills. I'm not using those engines anyways.

So if you adjust for the parts you can sell, and the cyclability of inventory items, the grind is actually not as bad as it seems.

85? I earn about 100ip per match and about 250 once daily so that's much less than 85 matches.

[Flying Fox 333]

Sorry for going off on a tangent here. Saved mech loadouts would be a wonderful thing to have and I agree that from a business perspective there isn't an incentive to implement this.

I have always felt that Trial mechs on the other hand should have a loadout & variant selection since you can't change those mechs. It would help newer players by giving them more options.

Edited by Flying Fox 333, 07 August 2015 - 06:53 PM.