18 replies to this topic

[Kira Onime]

Losing 20% armor in the first 30 seconds of a match 'cause you got the spawn in the open and the enemy gets their own spawn behind a hill looking at said spawn is just flat out ********.

Yes I am salty. Too many games have been decided on spawn.

EDIT: Yes 30 seconds is most probably an exaggeration probably closer to a minute but still.

Edited by Kira_Onime, 06 August 2015 - 10:03 AM.

[Deathlike]

Kira_Onime, on 06 August 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Losing 20% armor in the first 30 seconds of a match 'cause you got the spawn in the open and the enemy gets their own spawn behind a hill looking at said spawn is just flat out ********.

Yes I am salty. Too many games have been decided on spawn.

Which spawn are you talking about?

IIRC, all of the spawns you can get into cover pretty quickly... in EVERY mode.

Use smurfy's as a reference if you need a map.

[Kjudoon]

Kira_Onime, on 06 August 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Losing 20% armor in the first 30 seconds of a match 'cause you got the spawn in the open and the enemy gets their own spawn behind a hill looking at said spawn is just flat out ********.

Yes I am salty. Too many games have been decided on spawn.

They moved them with the introduction of the clan packs, because waddling more than 100m was too much to ask of a Dire Whale. So instead of the positioning battle that goes on, we get the 'waddlewaddlePEWPEWPEW" 10 seconds after spawn.

I'd also love to see the OLD Conquest points on Alpine where it was impossible to get to all of them except in a light. That was a blast. Forced those fat boys to pick a point and sit on them, or bring something faster.

But once again, Whine Poisoning.

[Kira Onime]

Deathlike, on 06 August 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Which spawn are you talking about?

IIRC, all of the spawns you can get into cover pretty quickly... in EVERY mode.

Use smurfy's as a reference if you need a map.

H3 spawn. Had 2 Whales and a KC spawn there. Within the first 30seconds to a minute the enemy E3 spawn was already shooting down on US with gauss-PPC and lost around 20-30% armor before we got under cover.

[Khobai]

Some of the spawn points are awful for slow assaults.

Assault mechs should never be placed on the far spawn points. The game should place assault mechs centrally by default.

[Deathlike]

Kira_Onime, on 06 August 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

H3 spawn. Had 2 Whales and a KC spawn there. Within the first 30seconds to a minute the enemy E3 spawn was already shooting down on US with gauss-PPC and lost around 20-30% armor before we got under cover.

Well, your post is misleading since the cover exists.

What tends to happen is that people try to move up to the 8-line often times when a team spawns on the lower spawns (G+H lines) and they forget that if such a group is Assault laden (especially @ H3), it doesn't have the time to get there.. usually getting harassed by Lights or whatnot.

The "correct" regrouping point is then closer to H5-G5, which is not what happens often, thus two groups can cover each other. The group in the G-line will be furthest out, but they are the least likely to be attacked due to map logistics.

So, I believe this is generally a "tactical error" more often than "spawn location".

[Kira Onime]

Deathlike, on 06 August 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, your post is misleading since the cover exists.

What tends to happen is that people try to move up to the 8-line often times when a team spawns on the lower spawns (G+H lines) and they forget that if such a group is Assault laden (especially @ H3), it doesn't have the time to get there.. usually getting harassed by Lights or whatnot.

The "correct" regrouping point is then closer to H5-G5, which is not what happens often, thus two groups can cover each other. The group in the G-line will be furthest out, but they are the least likely to be attacked due to map logistics.

So, I believe this is generally a "tactical error" more often than "spawn location".

The 2 other lances where not going up the 6-7 line, we all regrouped where you mention, G5. Most of the game was spent around E-F / 5-6. Getting to said location tho was brutal even tho the assault lance started moving immediately towards it. Their lights where on the complete opposite side of the map at the C7 spawn thus didn't see them in the initial "engagement".
Our assault lance was being shot down by 2 victors and 2 thunderbolts. before being able to regroup.


Tactical error? Perhaps.
Losing 20% armor within the first 30 seconds to a minute of a game should not happen unless you're a light and B lined the enemy.

[Deathlike]

Kira_Onime, on 06 August 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

The 2 other lances where not going up the 6-7 line, we all regrouped where you mention, G5. Most of the game was spent around E-F / 5-6. Getting to said location tho was brutal even tho the assault lance started moving immediately towards it. Their lights where on the complete opposite side of the map at the C7 spawn thus didn't see them in the initial "engagement".
Our assault lance was being shot down by 2 victors and 2 thunderbolts. before being able to regroup.


Tactical error? Perhaps.
Losing 20% armor within the first 30 seconds to a minute of a game should not happen unless you're a light and B lined the enemy.

I only see this happen generally when people don't regroup. That's why I don't exactly believe the exaggeration here.

The guys @ E3+C5 usually regroup and occasionally push towards F4-E5, hoping you get those regrouping from the H3+H6 spawns. However, this also means the guys that spawn @ C7-C8 tends to lag behind.

Compared to the opfor, the guys spawning @ G8 usually has enough time to get there before those that spawn @ C7-C8.

The only time this becomes a compounding problem is attempting to engage whatever spawned from E3+C5 early. It's practically assured that those spawning @ H3 are going to get wrecked if they even attempt to move north - they have to regroup with those that spawn @ H6 or it's assured destruction for that lance.

[RoboPatton]

But, "fixing" it would interfere with the Nascar Race that must, by natural law, occur on Tourmaline.

[Deathlike]

I would like to point out that H3 is a vulnerable spawn (I don't like it either), despite its proximity to the H6 spawn... it's just not a good starting position, but most of the time people play it wrong and end up getting exploited as such.

[Kira Onime]

Deathlike, on 06 August 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I would like to point out that H3 is a vulnerable spawn (I don't like it either), despite its proximity to the H6 spawn... it's just not a good starting position, but most of the time people play it wrong and end up getting exploited as such.

I would personally move the H3 spawn down to I4-H4 and move the E3 spawn around the back of D3.
Those 2 spawns are too close together for their own good.

[topgun505]

Some modes of Alpine are pretty bad as well. If the Assaults spawn in the furthest Southern point I have seen games where the battle is joined on the hill and the game was effectively over by the time the assaults got up the hill.

Yes. I know. Those instances the entire team should have set up elsewhere instead of trying to take/hold the hill. But I'm not going to try convince the pugs and herd that gaggle of cats. Tried too many times to no avail.

[bar10jim]

Kjudoon, on 06 August 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

They moved them with the introduction of the clan packs, because waddling more than 100m was too much to ask of a Dire Whale. So instead of the positioning battle that goes on, we get the 'waddlewaddlePEWPEWPEW" 10 seconds after spawn.

I'd also love to see the OLD Conquest points on Alpine where it was impossible to get to all of them except in a light. That was a blast. Forced those fat boys to pick a point and sit on them, or bring something faster.

But once again, Whine Poisoning.

Or better yet, have Alpine Alpha (the old cap/spawn points that use the whole map) and Alpine Beta, that uses the current map.

[Kjudoon]

RoboPatton, on 06 August 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

But, "fixing" it would interfere with the Nascar Race that must, by natural law, occur on Tourmaline.

No it wouldn't. Gamers be gamers, yo. People have a natural affinity to go right. I can't remember the phenomena's name for it, but it has much to do with being right side dominant. The rest comes down to having a map design that has a single dominant feature or superior set of protective structures. This is true of every map so far, and that is by design, and now ingrained habit.

Why Sniper Peak in Alpine? Because both teams want to get to combat quickly and that is the second highest point on the map. Yes there is one higher and harder to reach, but that is why people don't go there. About a third of the mechs couldn't make it and you'd have to wait.

Honestly, a huge change would be having multiple variants of spawn points and you never knew which set you would get, including an 'intermixed' drop set where every other point is the enemy. Friend/enemy/friend/enemy...

[KrazedOmega]

One of the assault spawns on Tourmaline is pretty terrible also if you happen to be put there in an assault mech.



The group in E4 has almost zero cover as they move to F5. The enemy group in D5 moves up and has a clear shot of them as they head for cover. I'd move the E4 spawn to G5.


Another spawn in Caustic Valley isn't the greatest either, although not as terrible as Tourmaline.



If the B5 group is an assault lance they're vulnerable to fire as they move to C3. The enemy group in E6 moves forward and has a good firing line on them. I'd move the B5 spawn to B4.

These spawns weren't as much of an issue when we still had mixed weight class lances. I have no idea whose idea it was or why they changed them but it wasn't for the better.

[Jman5]

Only one lance can really rush you which makes it an even lance on lance fight. If it's solo queue you will spawn with like-sized mechs. If it's group queue, why don't you ask your friends to wait up? In fact it's not really even a fair fight because they have to be small and fragile just to catch you in a minute.

Personally I love maps where they set up lances to allow for 4v4s in the early game.

Here's a tip. If you don't want to deal with getting ambushed by an F5 push, take this path. It's a little longer, but much safer. Even if the enemy does push you, they have to commit hard and that's risky for them.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Jman, the problem is only in assault cus the lance spawns in D5 instead of G5 edge of the map. Other team E4 spawn needs to cross huge open area anyways or be isolated while D5 lance gets full cover. If E4 spawn are fast movers no prob but pretty often there are assaults and heavies giving the D5 spawn several hundred free damage within the first minute of the match.

[Moldur]

There are a few maps like Tourmaline where depending on the which lance spawns where, 4 mechs can get decimated right off the bat. The reason so many maps have the 8 and then 4 is because when they made MWO 12v12 from 8v8, they really put the 3rd spawn in ridiculous places on some of the maps.

[Kiiyor]

Kira_Onime, on 06 August 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Losing 20% armor in the first 30 seconds of a match 'cause you got the spawn in the open and the enemy gets their own spawn behind a hill looking at said spawn is just flat out ********.

Yes I am salty. Too many games have been decided on spawn.

EDIT: Yes 30 seconds is most probably an exaggeration probably closer to a minute but still.

Yeah, there's nefarious bit of code in the spawn algorithm there that occasionally puts two lances VERY close together either side of that large crater. That start position sucks more than the old River City assaults-just-got-off-the-boat start point.