As you know, Stalker is the last mech left to receive the (dreaded) dynamic weapon geometry update, which will probably be extremely disappointing and start one (or a dozen) of threads of people (like me) complaining about how bad it looks.
On the bright side, Russ has mentioned that all these Dynamic updates are only the start and the mechs might get another pass (I specifically remember the Catapult being mentioned) and i believe that - well - a LOT of mechs will need it.
In this thread i'll be going over the Trebuchet and my suggestions on how its dynamic weapon geometry could be improved (without going overboard with hundreds of different models for each and every weapon possibility). Depending on the reception of them, i might make more of them for other mechs.
I'd like to point out that these aren't meant to look perfect, they're meant to be at least "acceptable(by my standards, which are as of recently - pretty low)" and "not as ugly as they are now".
There's going to be a lot of images in spoiler tags, divided by the corresponding component the weapons are on, so continue at your own discretion.
Right Torso
Spoiler
1xMissile Hardpoint
LRM20 - didn't change much. Didn't think it needed much change.
LRM15 - Again. Just tried making it look like less like LRM20 with 5 tubes blocked. Less unpaintable bits.
LRM10 - Same as above.
LRM5 - Instead of using an SRM6 model with 1 tube blocked out, followed the other LRM mentality.
SRM6 - tried to differentiate them from LRMs by the placement.
SRM4 - tried making it look less like SRM6 with tubes blocked out.
SRM2 - same as above.
NARC - same as above.
2x Energy Hardpoints
2x Medium Lasers - tried making them look less tacked on. instead of protruding out of the chest, they'd be even.
2x PPCs - made them SLIGHTLY wider (with the idea, that they would be slightly shorter), other than that. Same as above.
Overall, i think the Right torso doesn't need much changing. They did a pretty good job (apart from the blocked out tubes and very large unpaintable areas)
Left Torso
Spoiler
1x Missile Hardpoint
LRM20 - very little change. Probably unnecessary, but i'd prefer if it was at least partly paintable.
LRM15 - again, just reducing the area of unpaintable grey metalness.
LRM10 - same as above
LRM5 - made it look more like the rest of LRMs, less like an SRM6 with 1 tubed blocked out
SRM6 - made it vertical to correlate with the SRM placement on the other side of the torso (it also was made to be parallel to it.
SRM4 - same as above.
SRM2 - same as above.
NARC - same as above.
2x Ballistic Hardpoints (the idea is that unused hardpoints would not be on the model. If there's only a single hardpoints being used, only one will be visible)
2x AC2 - made the barrels thicker (slightly) and the "base" of the weapon narrower.
2x AC5 - same as above.
1x AC10 - in my opinion the barrel width is alright, so only made the base of the gun paintable and only appear IF the hardpoint is used (also the idea that smaller ballistics would use a narrower, smaller base)
1x AC20 - same as above.
There would also be LB10X and UAC5, however i do not think that they're necessary, because you get the picture. I hope.
Right Arm
Spoiler
2x Energy Hardpoints
2x Medium Lasers - Idea is to make them look less tacked on. So instead of having square pegs attached to the nubs of the arm, the arms themselves would be extended and the medium lasers incorporated more gracefully. Also less unpaintable area.
PPCs are absent, because in my opinion - they are perfectly fine. Or at least acceptable by my standards.
2x Missile Hardpoints
1x LRM20 - i do not like the slopped missile launcher.
2x LRM15 - instead of having one of the hardpoints in a 3/4s of a LRM20 and the central LRM15, i tried making it more compact and graceful. Which would also help the Trebuchet gameplay wise - her current arms are very large and easy to hit.
2x LRM10 - the current one is absolutely hideous and i tried to make it less hideous. It's still hideous, but at least hideous in an acceptable way.
2x LRM5 - as you see, i do not like asymmetric hardpoints so i tried to make it more ... symmetrical
SRM6 - as above, i'm trying to get rid of the current 4 way split giant club that we call an arm. It's also smaller, making it objectively better.
SRM4 - same as above.
SRM2 - tried making them better, however i won't disagree if you say they look as hideous as it did before. At least it's smaller and doesn't use the same model as an LRM20.
NARC - same as above.
1x Energy Hardpoint, 1x Missile Hardpoint
LRM20 and Medium Laser - just incorporated both types of arms. Keep in mind that smaller LRM launchers do not look as good with the current arm design.
Right arm was an absolute mess, i've tried to untangle. How successful was I? That's for you to decide, but in my opinion, anything's better than the giant abomination we currently have.
Left Arm
Spoiler
First and foremost, the arm needs to be "unbroken". After the dynamic geometry pass, PGI modelers broke the forearm of the Trebuchet. Part of what i'm asking for is making the arm straight again.
1x Energy Hardpoint, 1x Missile Hardpoint
LRM20 and Medium Laser - fixing the forearm, so the arm isn't as broken as it is now. Making the LRM20 into a single launcher instead of a mess it is now. LRM launcher is also now placed lower, decreasing the arm's profile.
LRM15 and Medium Laser - Made the launcher smaller, as opposed to just having 1/4th of it blocked off like it is now.
LRM10 and Medium Laser - same as above.
LRM5 and Medium Laser - instead of having it as earlier -SRM6 with one missile port block out, it's now half of an LRM10.
SRM6 and Medium Laser - idea is that the SRMs would have a different missile placement than the LRMs. Less of a "LRM launcher with blocked off areas" look to them.
SRM4 and Medium Laser - same as above.
SRM2 and Medium Laser - half of a SRM4. How it should be.
NARC and Medium Laser - the same model as SRM2, but instead of having one of the ports blocked off. The missile sits in the center of the launcher.
2x Energy Hardpoints
2x Medium Lasers - same as with the Right Arm; the secondary medium laser extended to be parallel to the first one.
This arm, was much less of a mess to work with. Mostly because of how it looked before the change was mostly possible to re-do with the idea of Dynamic Geometry.
Well, that'd be it for the Trebuchet's geometry.
However, there's also another, aesthetic nitpick i have with it.
It stems from its JJs. That is, it has Jump Jet ports on its legs, which are not animated (while the torso LACKS JJ ports, but is animated.) (Quickdraw has the same problem with its CT JJ port being non-animated)
And that'd be the end of the post.
I'd like to hear your opinion on it and i might make more of these for the old mechs that were molested by the Dynamic Geometry Pass team.
And as to why i did the Trebuchet?
Well, i feel she deserves it. She was the poster-child of oversized medium mechs, but didn't even make into the Re-scale polls, she's an underused, underappreciated mech that needs a face-lift to maybe make her popular again.
I do realize, other mechs have it worse, when it comes to Dynamic Geometry (The Dragon, Commando, Catapult, but those mechs.. Those mechs got the attention of the forums, while the trebuchet just went in and went away without people blinking an eye.)
Edited by Juodas Varnas, 08 August 2015 - 09:47 PM.
The left forearm definitely needs re-centered like it was before dynamic geometry. I don't like how the left torso weapons overlap what looks like a vent. Other than that I like how it looks currently. (not counting scale)
I wouldn't mind the painted areas around the weapons or right arm being longer but I don't like the proposed square missile boxes for the arms. They look out of place to me since the rest of the mech is very angled.
Edited by HollowBassman, 08 August 2015 - 08:30 AM.
Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 August 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:
How about rewokring the A-1 so it doesnt look like its juggling old VCRs?
Why is it players make these things look less trashy than the makers of the game lol
Well, the Catapult A1 already has a 73 page thread about it. (and Russ has said something about reworking the Catapult's some day) http://mwomercs.com/...-broken-the-a1/
I'm just trying to bring attention to the other poor victims of Dynamic Geometry crew, the victims that were never as popular as the Catapult, the victims that gone unnoticed.
I like your ideas on missle and ballistics very much.
Not a fan of what you did to energy hardpoints, though.
I'd like them more like weapons and less like sensors.
Very interesting work anyway!
Nice work! Dynamic geometry is a cool idea but very poorly implemented for a lot of mechs in my opinion. It is sad and frustrating to see the art assets of the game get worse over time. I wish if they would just stop with it until it actually looks good instead of making the mechs look like they were cobbled together from the scrapheap. What they did to the Catapult and Commando should be a crime.
I like your ideas on missle and ballistics very much.
Not a fan of what you did to energy hardpoints, though.
I'd like them more like weapons and less like sensors.
Very interesting work anyway!
The energy weapons looking like sensors might be more of a problem of me not being able to draw them
Basically, i want so that the lasers wouldn't stick out of the barrels (or the torso) and would look like they're actually integrated into the mech itself, instead of being just sloppily slapped onto it (It's not an omnimech).
Even more basically, i want the lasers to look like they did BEFORE the Dynamic geometry pass.
Edited by Juodas Varnas, 08 August 2015 - 09:35 PM.
Isn't it amazing how the player base dreads these DG passes, with instantaneous outcries of "NOOOOO NOT MY [X]" whenever Piranha announces the next victim...and yet they keep doing it?
Piranha. This is a case where less work gets you more goodwill. Knoggidoff already.
Isn't it amazing how the player base dreads these DG passes, with instantaneous outcries of "NOOOOO NOT MY [X]" whenever Piranha announces the next victim...and yet they keep doing it?
Piranha. This is a case where less work gets you more goodwill. Knoggidoff already.
Well, only a single mech is left to be butchered.
The Stalker.
After that? Who knows, we might get second passes to make them less ugly. (Which is what i'm hoping for with this thread.)
Edited by Juodas Varnas, 08 August 2015 - 10:46 PM.
Juodas Varnas, on 08 August 2015 - 10:46 PM, said:
After that? Who knows, we might get second passes to make them less ugly. (Which is what i'm hoping for with this thread.)
I wish I had as much faith as you. New content is king in MWO, there's no money in fixing old things. If they were going to fix dynamic geo to look good, it would have been done already.
I wish I had as much faith as you. New content is king in MWO, there's no money in fixing old things. If they were going to fix dynamic geo to look good, it would have been done already.
Even though i love its camo, its dynamic geometry on the default loadout is mind-boggling. Especially the right arm. That giant mess right there? Yeah that's a single MPL and an SRM4.
It's a real shame to see good looking mechs being ruined by the utterly moronic choices during the Dynamic Geometry Pass process. I'm sorry, whoever was responsible for it, but you really f*cked it up.
Edited by Juodas Varnas, 09 August 2015 - 09:21 AM.
Part of the problem with PGI's "Legomechin'" is that they aren't treating the space around the arms in various mechs like a possible balance issue... it's treated as "art" that doesn't make sense (weirder than Picasso).
Noone would intentionally design their mechs to be modular AND be vulnerable for doing that. A lot of these issues could be solved with intelligent placement.
It doesn't matter really... it's going to be half arsed and you're going to like it!
Lets be honest, having missiles show in a dynamic manner is hard. There are so many variations to account for. There are 3 types of missiles platforms, and each of those have varying number of missiles per salvo.
Which is why i say they keep the catapult's launchers as they were in beta.
I'm curious to see what kind of creative mojo they can work with the stalker's dynamic geometry. But if that doesn't work out i think they should revert it back as it is.
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