157 replies to this topic

[Excessive Paranoia]

Roadkill, on 10 August 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

Well my personal experience both with and against the ACH is very different than yours.

ACH shuts down and stops? It dies pretty much instantly in my games, whether I'm shooting at it or being shot at. They're no more "tanky" than the Firestarter, Spider, or even the Commando or LoLcust. 99% of the time the problem isn't hit reg, it's pilot aim.

Sure, occasionally a shot will fail to register, but no more often than it happens on every other Mech. Most of the whining going on right now is due to bad aim, not actual hit reg failures.


FTFY.

How do you account for all of the ACH pilots coming forward to admit their mechs are OP, broken, near invincible, etc? They are all lying?

Whatever your personal opinion, there is one clear point that keeps getting repeated, even by ACH pilots: The ACH is broken somehow, whether its hitboxes, quirks, size, available equipment, or some combination of all of them, and needs to be fixed or rebalanced somehow.

I still see arguments against this as little more than thinly disguised attempts to maintain an unfair advantage.

EDIT: I also want to add a point here... I hunt and kill ACH all the time with my FS9. I am able to kill them without too much trouble, but I definitely have to pump a lot more fire into them than other light mechs. If they were balanced, I'd expect an ACH to go down in about the same amount of effort as any other light mech, yet they consistently take 2-3 times as much damage to kill as even other FS9's.

Edited by Excessive Paranoia, 10 August 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Corrado]

ClanKiller, on 08 August 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Anyone else think the Arctic Cheetah takes less damage than it should from weapons? Reminds me of Spiders back in the day.

I saw one that was shutdown take 2 Gauss and some other lasers and barely show any damage.

I don't care about the ECM or small pulse lasers, but I need the hitboxes to work.

legs are quite fragile. if you're not shooting the legs of a light mech, you're doing it wrong.

[Juodas Varnas]

Corrado, on 10 August 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

legs are quite fragile. if you're not shooting the legs of a light mech, you're doing it wrong.

Pretty sure it has the TOUGHEST legs of all Light mechs due to its quirks. Even on paper, ignoring its extremely wide-stride animations, that make it nigh impossible to accurately hit those said legs from the side

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 10 August 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Roadkill]

Excessive Paranoia, on 10 August 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

How do you account for all of the ACH pilots coming forward to admit their mechs are OP, broken, near invincible, etc? They are all lying?

There are people who say that about just about every Mech, so unless they've got some actual data that shows there's actually something wrong I file them along with all the other unsubstantiated opinions that constantly pop up on the forums. C'mon, dude, according to that logic LRMs are OMGWTFBBQ OP. There's practically a continuous stream of complaint threads about them, so that must mean those people are right, eh?

But you should go back and re-read my posts. I have not said that the ACH isn't extremely good. It just isn't any better than the Firestarter or Spider, it doesn't have broken hit boxes, and it isn't impossible to kill. All things that people in this thread have been tossing around as fact.

Quote

I still see arguments against this as little more than thinly disguised attempts to maintain an unfair advantage.

Right. Because you don't like the ACH, so anyone who disagrees with you must have an ulterior motive and all be working together.

Or... maybe your argument has holes in it that you need to reevaluate and perhaps consider dropping from your argument.

Quote

EDIT: I also want to add a point here... I hunt and kill ACH all the time with my FS9. I am able to kill them without too much trouble, but I definitely have to pump a lot more fire into them than other light mechs. If they were balanced, I'd expect an ACH to go down in about the same amount of effort as any other light mech, yet they consistently take 2-3 times as much damage to kill as even other FS9's.

No harder to kill for me, and I pretty much suck at killing all lights. If they were really as invincible as you keep trying to make them out to be, then it should be damn near impossible for me to kill them. Yet I kill them easily, or rather just as easily as Firestarters, Spiders, Commandos, and LoLcusts.

They're harder to kill than Jenners, that's for sure. But that's not saying much.

Juodas Varnas, on 10 August 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Pretty sure it has the TOUGHEST legs of all Light mechs due to its quirks. Even on paper, ignoring its extremely wide-stride animations, that make it nigh impossible to accurately hit those said legs from the side

Don't aim at the legs, aim at the hip or just slightly below the hip.

Easy peasy.

[Juodas Varnas]

Roadkill, on 10 August 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

Don't aim at the legs, aim at the hip or just slightly below the hip.

Easy peasy.

Oh, you mean the part of the leg that is obscured by the arms from the downward angle you look at light mechs from a larger mech?
Good idea.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 10 August 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[Roadkill]

Juodas Varnas, on 10 August 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Oh, you mean the part of the leg that is obscured by the arms from the downward angle you look at light mechs from a larger mech?
Good idea. <_<

Well, sure, you shoot the arm off first.

At the kinds of close range you're talking about, I'm just sprayin' and prayin' anyway. I thought you were talking about at more of a distance.

[FupDup]

Roadkill, on 10 August 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

...It just isn't any better than the Firestarter or Spider...

Sorry to nitpick, but...

The Cheetah does have a clear advantage over the Spider in that it has massively higher firepower capabilities...but of course, almost any light in the game can outgun Spiders lol. The higher torso mounts and nicer structure quirks are cool too.

I wouldn't really use the Spider as a baseline here, because I've considered them to be a sub-par mech for quite a long time (since their release), even if they can be kinda annoying (annoying =/= threatening) sometimes. In the Cheetah's defense, beating the Spider isn't really a difficult task...


My position:
I consider the Cheetah to be either the best light or tied for it, but the caveat here is that I also consider the light class as a whole to be generally beneath the other weight classes in terms of effectiveness...

I think this situation is sort of like the pre-Clans Shadow Hawk. It was THE king of the mediums for a while, but almost nobody wanted it nerfed because most players regarded mediums as being a sub-par weight class. I view the Cheetah in a similar way (I could understand reducing some of its quirks, but nothing drastic).

[Roadkill]

FupDup, on 10 August 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

My position:
I consider the Cheetah to be either the best light or tied for it, but the caveat here is that I also consider the light class as a whole to be generally beneath the other weight classes in terms of effectiveness...

I think this situation is sort of like the pre-Clans Shadow Hawk. It was THE king of the mediums for a while, but almost nobody wanted it nerfed because most players regarded mediums as being a sub-par weight class. I view the Cheetah in a similar way (I could understand reducing some of its quirks, but nothing drastic).

Sure, I'll buy that. It's a good mech (meaning: good overall, not just amongst lights) and one of the top two or three lights.

But as you say, only those top two or three lights are actually worth taking. If PGI really wants all Mechs to be equal (which they phrase as "have a chance"), then the FS9 and ACH are the prototypes.

[Dino Might]

FupDup, on 10 August 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

Sorry to nitpick, but...

The Cheetah does have a clear advantage over the Spider in that it has massively higher firepower capabilities...but of course, almost any light in the game can outgun Spiders lol. The higher torso mounts and nicer structure quirks are cool too.

I wouldn't really use the Spider as a baseline here, because I've considered them to be a sub-par mech for quite a long time (since their release), even if they can be kinda annoying (annoying =/= threatening) sometimes. In the Cheetah's defense, beating the Spider isn't really a difficult task...


My position:
I consider the Cheetah to be either the best light or tied for it, but the caveat here is that I also consider the light class as a whole to be generally beneath the other weight classes in terms of effectiveness...

I think this situation is sort of like the pre-Clans Shadow Hawk. It was THE king of the mediums for a while, but almost nobody wanted it nerfed because most players regarded mediums as being a sub-par weight class. I view the Cheetah in a similar way (I could understand reducing some of its quirks, but nothing drastic).

You are a fair and reasoned sort. I want the Cheetah stabbed with a wooden stake, burned with fire, and buried in a salt and garlic-laden grave. Toss the Firestarter in there, too after you're done. edit: I forgot "dropped in a pool of molten silver"

Okay - reality time. We shouldn't destroy these two mechs. They are decent sorts whose only crime is being so much better than their peers. We should nerf the Cheetah and Firestarter individually, and then (in the same sentence - at the same time) buff lights across the board. Not a lot for either action, but enough to get a bit more parity and usefulness.

Let the pitchfork crowd come forth! Oh wait, they're coming at me! And I'm screwed because they're doing 142 and I'm doing 169, and the difference means they can shoot 7 pitchforks at me at a time for more than 20 seconds and I can't survive being hit by any of those salvos...

Edited by Dino Might, 10 August 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Corrado]

Dino Might, on 10 August 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

You are a fair and reasoned sort. I want the Cheetah stabbed with a wooden stake, burned with fire, and buried in a salt and garlic-laden grave. Toss the Firestarter in there, too after you're done. edit: I forgot "dropped in a pool of molten silver"

Okay - reality time. We shouldn't destroy these two mechs. They are decent sorts whose only crime is being so much better than their peers. We should nerf the Cheetah and Firestarter individually, and then (in the same sentence - at the same time) buff lights across the board. Not a lot for either action, but enough to get a bit more parity and usefulness.

Let the pitchfork crowd come forth! Oh wait, they're coming at me! And I'm screwed because they're doing 142 and I'm doing 169, and the difference means they can shoot 7 pitchforks at me at a time for more than 20 seconds and I can't survive being hit by any of those salvos...

but of course they'll be toned down like the timbers, stormcrows... it's the business model. good at day one, sold many, toned down later.

i personally dont really care about what's under heavy powercreep or not. in any case, the cheetas have their counter. any Cstreak carrying mech. even a CSSRM4x4 adder with tag bap decay and artemis, would chew a cheetah to pieces.

just had an alpine.. 2 cheetas against 2 cheetas, me and a teammate focused on legs of the first. legged in 4 shots (each), then second leg. the other ran off.

BUT yes. actually, once you have a cheetah, you can surely play other funny lights. but when you want an easy win, the firestarter firepower, combined with more range, better JJs and ecm, there is nothing else to take.

i'd go with a +8% laser duration +8% heat

Edited by Corrado, 10 August 2015 - 02:43 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Corrado, on 10 August 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

i'd go with a +8% laser duration +8% heat

Put down the crack pipe.

[nitra]

Another skirmish with a cheetah under duress, bet you never guess the out come this one.

[MechWarrior849305]

nitra, on 10 August 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

Another skirmish with a cheetah under duress, bet you never guess the out come this one

Nice "spray-and-pray" shooting man

Edited by DuoAngel, 10 August 2015 - 09:21 PM.

[nitra]

DuoAngel, on 10 August 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Nice "spray-and-pray" shooting man

when your fighting against the cheetah you dont have the luxury of lining up kill shots.

[Roadkill]

Last night I was running missions in my ACH to work on the current challenge. I'm in a mission on HPG and have already killed 3 Mechs that weren't paying attention by walking up behind them and shooting them in the back repeatedly.

(Seriously. Your HUD is flickering due to my ECM, and you're getting shot in the back. How do you NOT notice that? *sigh* But I digress...)

I round a corner and see a Stalker firing missiles at the rest of my team, so I start my sneak approach. As I do so, I see him overheat and shut down, so I sprint to get close. As I approach he wakes up and I get a lock... his CT is already cored and the internals are kind of a brick red/orange. I fire on my way in and hit his arm, left torso, and probably some CT. He starts to pivot toward me so I jump... he fires blindly spraying what looks like 4 LL all over they place and promptly goes back to sleep.

Woot! I land right in front of him and nail him CT with my 6 SPL. He doesn't die. "Really?" I think, then shake it off. I must have missed and hit a side torso. So still standing there about 50 meters in front of him, I fire directly at the point of his nose. He doesn't die. I glance at the paper doll and it's flashing. "WTF?" I think. I keep the trigger held down and alpha again right into his nose. He doesn't die. The paper doll is still flashing.

I'm now getting hot and he's about to wake up, so I'm nervous. He starts to move so I do the same and frantically fire another alpha at his nose, but at this point it's spray & pray because we're both on the move. He finally dies. 4 alphas, mostly CT, 2 absolutely 100% CT, into an already cored and rust red internals.

But yeah, it's only the ACH that's bugged. OMG NURF THE ACH!!!

Edited by Roadkill, 11 August 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[FupDup]

Roadkill, on 11 August 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Last night I was running missions in my ACH to work on the current challenge. I'm in a mission on HPG and have already killed 3 Mechs that weren't paying attention by walking up behind them and shooting them in the back repeatedly.

(Seriously. Your HUD is flickering due to my ECM, and you're getting shot in the back. How do you NOT notice that? *sigh* But I digress...)

I round a corner and see a Stalker firing missiles at the rest of my team, so I start my sneak approach. As I do so, I see him overheat and shut down, so I sprint to get close. As I approach he wakes up and I get a lock... his CT is already cored and the internals are kind of a brick red/orange. I fire on my way in and hit his arm, left torso, and probably some CT. He starts to pivot toward me so I jump... he fires blindly spraying what looks like 4 LL all over they place and promptly goes back to sleep.

Woot! I land right in front of him and nail him CT with my 6 SPL. He doesn't die. "Really?" I think, then shake it off. I must have missed and hit a side torso. So still standing there about 50 meters in front of him, I fire directly at the point of his nose. He doesn't die. I glance at the paper doll and it's flashing. "WTF?" I think. I keep the trigger held down and alpha again right into his nose. He doesn't die. The paper doll is still flashing.

I'm now getting hot and he's about to wake up, so I'm nervous. He starts to move so I do the same and frantically fire another alpha at his nose, but at this point it's spray & pray because we're both on the move. He finally dies. 4 alphas, mostly CT, 2 absolutely 100% CT, into an already cored and rust red internals.

But yeah, it's only the ACH that's bugged. OMG NURF THE ACH!!!

STALKER HITBOXES BROKEN PLS FIX NAO!!11!one

[Murphy7]

Arctic Cheetah is an excellent mech in its own right, but it is not the end all be all that Firestarters had been early on, or the short glorious era of the indestructible Raven-3L.

Arctic Cheetahs perform best in the pug queue, where teamwork is rare, steering wheels aren't, and the combination of mobility, firepower, and ECM let the individualist players shine on.

In the group queue where you might be at least reasonably certain of some teamwork?

Large caliber ballistics, massed fire, and/or friendly Firestarters / Ravens help you clean up on Arctic Cheetah menaces. Nevermind the cStreak boats that eat many light mechs alive if they're foolish enough to stick around.


I can't help but wonder how many of the complaints leveled against mech, any mechs, are based primarily on experiences in the solo queue?

[Deathlike]

To be honest, most of these problems are related to hitreg.

The bigger problem is that PGI hasn't put any effort into allowing testing "recently released" mechs through the training grounds to "find" potential bugs.

I'd assure you that more often than not, the problem is hitreg, and the occasional magical hitbox.

If it were ALWAYS hitboxes, then why do point blank shots to a Direwolf miss? They do in this magical spaghetti netcode (Oceanic servers don't help either).

I get used to it, as much I can do nothing about it outside of mentioning it in passing.

As long as you blame hitboxes (fair or unfairly), you'll never get past the issues that plague this game.

[Lugh]

Murphy7, on 11 August 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Arctic Cheetah is an excellent mech in its own right,
I can't help but wonder how many of the complaints leveled against mech, any mechs, are based primarily on experiences in the solo queue?

Like all statistics I'd say 80% of them.

[Dino Might]

Murphy7, on 11 August 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Arctic Cheetah is an excellent mech in its own right, but it is not the end all be all that Firestarters had been early on, or the short glorious era of the indestructible Raven-3L.

Arctic Cheetahs perform best in the pug queue, where teamwork is rare, steering wheels aren't, and the combination of mobility, firepower, and ECM let the individualist players shine on.

In the group queue where you might be at least reasonably certain of some teamwork?

Large caliber ballistics, massed fire, and/or friendly Firestarters / Ravens help you clean up on Arctic Cheetah menaces. Nevermind the cStreak boats that eat many light mechs alive if they're foolish enough to stick around.


I can't help but wonder how many of the complaints leveled against mech, any mechs, are based primarily on experiences in the solo queue?

I play solo queue roughly 1 in 100 matches, if I were to guess at the average. I haven't played solo queue since the Cheeto came out.
I can't speak for everyone, but I can say, the problems exist in the group queue. Yes, you can kill them, but then again, you could kill the Timby when it first was released as well. Doesn't mean it was balanced.