157 replies to this topic

[Kain Demos]

Roadkill, on 11 August 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Last night I was running missions in my ACH to work on the current challenge. I'm in a mission on HPG and have already killed 3 Mechs that weren't paying attention by walking up behind them and shooting them in the back repeatedly.

(Seriously. Your HUD is flickering due to my ECM, and you're getting shot in the back. How do you NOT notice that? *sigh* But I digress...)

I round a corner and see a Stalker firing missiles at the rest of my team, so I start my sneak approach. As I do so, I see him overheat and shut down, so I sprint to get close. As I approach he wakes up and I get a lock... his CT is already cored and the internals are kind of a brick red/orange. I fire on my way in and hit his arm, left torso, and probably some CT. He starts to pivot toward me so I jump... he fires blindly spraying what looks like 4 LL all over they place and promptly goes back to sleep.

Woot! I land right in front of him and nail him CT with my 6 SPL. He doesn't die. "Really?" I think, then shake it off. I must have missed and hit a side torso. So still standing there about 50 meters in front of him, I fire directly at the point of his nose. He doesn't die. I glance at the paper doll and it's flashing. "WTF?" I think. I keep the trigger held down and alpha again right into his nose. He doesn't die. The paper doll is still flashing.

I'm now getting hot and he's about to wake up, so I'm nervous. He starts to move so I do the same and frantically fire another alpha at his nose, but at this point it's spray & pray because we're both on the move. He finally dies. 4 alphas, mostly CT, 2 absolutely 100% CT, into an already cored and rust red internals.

But yeah, it's only the ACH that's bugged. OMG NURF THE ACH!!!

The Stalker has a godly CT hitbox shape. Looking at it head-on it is kind of an hourglass---you need to hit the top or bottom, anything else usually results in ST damage. That is why I find them best dealt with from a slight elevation advantage or at least a tall 'mech.

An XL Stalker is suicide, but man can the STD builds live forever once they lose a ST and correctly use the already dead side to shield and take advantage of the damage transfer reduction mechanic.

Of course, I have a feeling you knew this already and posted this experience to make a point to all the "I won't listen to reason/experience/game mechanics crowd, these guys are super OP because my l33t laser spray and pray skills aren't getting it done" crowd but thought I would post anyway for those that don't understand.

You would think at this point the Stalker's CT and damage transfer mechanics in general would be well known but I still find myself explaining it to people all the time who make complaints about the Stalker and how it doesn't take damage like it should (similar to the ACH ones in this thread).

Edited by Kain Demos, 11 August 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[Murphy7]

Quote

I play solo queue roughly 1 in 100 matches, if I were to guess at the average. I haven't played solo queue since the Cheeto came out.
I can't speak for everyone, but I can say, the problems exist in the group queue. Yes, you can kill them, but then again, you could kill the Timby when it first was released as well. Doesn't mean it was balanced.

Balance gets defined too often by paper complaining loudly about scissors while thinking the rock is working as intended.

Most light mechs are crap, and when hitreg is working well, there are no OP light mechs anywhere.


If anyone in this thread is having trouble with Arctic Cheetahs, the answer is simple: aim between the waist and the knees on the little buggers. Your problems will be over shortly.

[Roadkill]

Kain Demos, on 11 August 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Of course, I have a feeling you knew this already and posted this experience to make a point

Yep. After the Stalker finally died I had the chance to check its paper doll again, and it looked like only the very first shot (which spread across left arm, left torso, and possibly a tiny bit of CT) and the final panic-induced sprayed kill shot did any damage. The two dead center CT alphas while we were both standing still simply didn't register anywhere on the Mech.

Hit reg happens. /shrug

[nitra]

Got a good one here folks .. preeety much shows what is exactly happening.

the cheetah may be pgi's pinnacle model yet for clean and tight hit boxes if all our mechs were designed this well ttk may be a lot higher.. than what it is today.

full skirmish in a bit

Edited by nitra, 14 August 2015 - 08:16 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

" They're no more "tanky" than the Firestarter"

I don't see how you can say that when, not only does a cheetah survive losing a side torso (unlike IS XLs), it can now use that side to get damage reduction.

Also, the Firestarter still has issues. Comparing one mech that's out of balance to another mech that's also out of balance doesn't seem right.

[Xetelian]

Fenrisulvyn, on 14 August 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

" They're no more "tanky" than the Firestarter"

I don't see how you can say that when, not only does a cheetah survive losing a side torso (unlike IS XLs), it can now use that side to get damage reduction.

Also, the Firestarter still has issues. Comparing one mech that's out of balance to another mech that's also out of balance doesn't seem right.

Out of balance? Are you living in a parallel world where the light queue is 40% and people play Heavies to get in matches quickly?

You are calling a 30 ton mech OP? Really?

It doesn't even matter if it can take 8tons of weapons, it doesn't matter if the weapons it takes are lighter clan weapons.

The ACH is almost a FS9 with ECM. Not quite an FS9 because the FS9 can change engines

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...789eb312a4de0fe

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...09e0c6ed630be3a

See how incredibly similar they are? FS9 a little faster with CT lasers while the ACH has ECM and cXL.

Neither are OP because saying a Light is OP is just plain wrong.

SCR TBR DWF and maybe the HBR

These mechs make a good argument for what is and isn't OP. 2 of them are Heavies and all can fit every flavor of weapon and all 4 can boat one weapon type DWF can boat 2.

I don't like that the TBR DWF and SCR have nerf quirks but I also understand that they simply outclass available mechs in the same weight.

[H Seldon]

Kyocera, on 10 August 2015 - 01:58 AM, said:

I have named one of my Arctic Cheetahs IDDQD.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what needs tweaking on the ACH hitboxes. If you look at it from the front it has a very slim profile, there really isn't a lot of surface area to be hitting. Couple that with torso twisting, HSR and lag and you have the perfect damage spreader. I finished one match with no armour left and a total of 21% health which is the lowest I've had so far. For the most part it's just damn hard to focus damage onto a single component. And of course don't forget Clan XL engine too.

Anyway, obligatory e-peen pics from Pugland coming up.

What? You only got 5 kills? I was in a match where I saw an ACH do 1099 damage and get 10 kills and 2 assists. He just ran around spraying sm pulse laser all over the place. The guy had a 152 ping. In all the years I've been playing this, I've never seen that many kills in a single PUG match. I spent a good part of the match shooting at his back side. Seemed like I was shooting marshmallows at him.

[Murphy7]

There are a few issues that overlap one another, fixing a few of these might tone down others.

(1) Hit registration - biggest deal overall because when this is on point (admittedly the variance match to match in this game is greatly frustrating) - no light mech is OP, they are all super fragile in the massive alpha warrior we "enjoy" right now. When hit registration goes to pot, the faster you go, the more indestructible you are.

(1*) Home state rewind - when I am playing on North American servers, I get low 20ish pings. This is also where just about everyone else's home state trumps my own movement - I personally routinely see my mech avoid fire behind cover, only to have the paper doll register damage about a second later because I wasn't under cover according to the firing mech. This happens whether I am in an Arctic Cheetahs, Firestarters, or Dragons, Hunchbacks, and Wolverines.

(2) SRM registration is particularly bad across the board - this is exacerbated against light mechs where their speed & small profile makes them harder to hit, and the expectation from the damage sent is more catastrophic.

(2*) The real power of massed streak SRMs is that their damage will register - which is why all lights will vaporize around them (and why they are my preferred prey in a ACH. I'll likely lose the encounter, but when I do win it is so much sweeter.)

(3) Firestarters and Arctic Cheetahs are on par in my opinion because they share similar traits in terms of firepower and durability. Jenners can get near the firepower, but are still terrible about torso hitboxes. Spiders are as durable, but don't have the firepower. Ice Ferrets are as fast and sport clan weaponry, but they are larger and lack the hardpoints to make people as upset about them.

McGral is right - the ACH does not need positive quirks. First step should be to take all of the structure quirks away; second to take all quirks away, third might be some negative quirks with respect to cool down or heat generation. I do not trust PGI to not overreact.

Dino Might - I will not agree with you that the ACH and FS9 are overpowered. Rather, I feel they are at an optimal level for lights, and I would rather see more lights brought up to a comparable level.

[Modnar]

They are way to hard to kill they are a light ffs there is no way heavier mechs should have to put the damage in that they doo to kill them its easier to face tank an assult then to kill a cheetah in the open when you have full view of the thing the hit boxes need to be fixed you cant even kill them if they shut down in front of you half the time

[ExplicitContent]

I don't think there would be nearly the frustration with the ACH if IS had SSRM6

[Aresye]

Murphy7, on 15 August 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

McGral is right - the ACH does not need positive quirks. First step should be to take all of the structure quirks away; second to take all quirks away, third might be some negative quirks with respect to cool down or heat generation. I do not trust PGI to not overreact.

The structure quirks could definitely go, but negative cool down/heat gen quirks? Really? The FS9-A w/ 8 SPL is already more heat efficient and can alpha more times than the 6 CSPL ACH.

[MadIrish]

ClanKiller, on 08 August 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Anyone else think the Arctic Cheetah takes less damage than it should from weapons? Reminds me of Spiders back in the day.

I saw one that was shutdown take 2 Gauss and some other lasers and barely show any damage.

I don't care about the ECM or small pulse lasers, but I need the hitboxes to work.

I do that is why I'm resurrecting this thread

[Bombast]

[Mystere]

MadIrish, on 21 January 2017 - 10:40 PM, said:

I do that is why I'm resurrecting this thread

And I am reporting you every time you do so.

[MadIrish]

Mystere, on 21 January 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

And I am reporting you every time you do so.

Must be a Cheetah lover.

[Mystere]

MadIrish, on 21 January 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Must be a Cheetah lover.

Well, apparently there are just 7,100 of these magnificent creatures now left in the wild. Are you saying you wouldn't do your bit to save them from extinction? How sad.

[Kasumi Sumika]

GD right now :

[RestosIII]

Mystere, on 21 January 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Well, apparently there are just 7,100 of these magnificent creatures now left in the wild. Are you saying you wouldn't do your bit to save them from extinction? How sad.

Speaking of which...

https://en.m.wikiped...reatened_sharks

They're in trouble people. They're not going to last long at this rate. We need to take a stand and stop the terrible fishing going on for their fins and other body parts. They're beautiful, important animals, and don't deserve what we're doing to them.