82 replies to this topic

[Savage Wolf]

Hotthedd, on 10 August 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

I wouldn't mind seeing mechs with more surface area (Awesomes, Catapults, Dragons, etc.) get cooling quirks. More surface area=more dissipation/second.

That actually makes sense, both game design wise, immersion wise and even realism wise.

+1, no +10.

[MechaBattler]

Quirks got borked because of Clans. Simple as that. If you want them to "balance". They have to nerf. But no one wants them to nerf their "favorite thing". Because it's their favorite thing.

The quirks are going to continue being huge until the balance between Clans and IS is closer.

[Lugh]

Savage Wolf, on 09 August 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

Of course. Otherwise why even include old mechs in the game if they are irrelevant?

Nostalgia.

OR You have a community warfare system that has NPC AI controlling where their faction is attacking next and you are only allowed to bring these 10 mech chassis to this battle.

The defense is this other faction and they can only choose from these 10 mechs etc.

This would require a simple lot of diligent work on the Lore, which PGI has profoundly shown very little interest in, which is a SHAME, because it is rich and hilariously deep in scope (those shallow in prejudice).

c'est la PGI (vie)

Edited by Lugh, 10 August 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Exotic, on 09 August 2015 - 11:49 PM, said:

First of all, quirks was introduced to balance clan and IS mechs (PGI dont want to make "clear" fights like 12 IS vs 10 clan).

Most of IS mech got weak generic quirks like +10% laser cooldown. And some got strong quirks for specific weapon, but do you often see this "overpowered" mechs in matches? I dont.

Locusts have strongs quirks and I see them from time to time but not often. More often I see FireStarters in game but can't say that they have strong quirks. Ravens (2x/4x) have strong quirks but usually I meet 3L (due to ECM) who dont have strong quirks. BlackJacks with strong ML quirks I meet pretty often. Hunchbacks is now popular but mostly due to recent event with -35% price (I also buy them due to discount), but do you often see wolverines or centurions? They have pretty nice quirks. Dragon 1N I meet from time to time in game but Thunderbolts with amazing quirks I meet very rare. Awesome, Stalker? Very, very rare ...

It was observation from random games. But mech I named is most powerfull IS mechs and if you look in CW - top IS units use only them (for sure there is weight restriction in CW but anyway)

And I can say that I happy that random games is not filled with meta mechs only. I happy to meet Hunchback with 9 flamers, Atlas with 50 LRM only (20+20+10), spider with LBX and other funny setups.

P.S. Also the reason why quirks have place - to hint players about main weapon for specific mech. In lore it will be hard to replace MG with Gauss but in game - CPL-K2 with 2xGauss was my favorite mech for long time (and still stay in hungar).

Did you look in meta setup for clan mechs now? Pretty bored. Adder - 2 PPC, Nova - 2 PPC, StromCrow - 2 PPC, Hellbringer - 2 PPC, TimberWolf - 2 PPC + 4 SPL, Warhawk - 2 PPC + Gauss, DireWolf - 2 PPC + 2 Gauss.
After 2 weeks contract for any clan in CW I see PPC in nightmares. Before clan laser neft (for timer/storms) it was some metas with lasers but now ...

I dont know what game you are playing. My games are festooned with MPL and LPL thunderbolts, Laser stalkers and Even quite a few laser blackjcaks.

[Penance]

I had an idea about this a few days ago...I posted in suggestions but like most things there, got 2 replies, then gets buried...reposting the original idea here:



Throwing this out there for criticism / brainstorming.

I like quirks but think they tend towards cookie cutter builds. I might be wrong, but having spent some time away and coming back I was looking at them and felt that I pretty much should build towards those bonuses to really maximize the chassis.

Now this idea doesn't really change the cookie cutter and quirks part too much, but puts the power of their implementation into the players hand giving a further feeling of customization and immersion, while at the same time lowering the cost of everything in the game and adding another cost. A cost that will increase based on the players choice...which will in a way help lower the grind, but balance by this 'variable' cost.

This is really more about IS chassis and not clans, but could also be applied towards omni-pod bonuses. Chassis now get a limited # of quirks based on either tonnage or size (light, med, etc). Lights could have 5, med 10, hvy 15, assault 20 for example. If based on tonnage, that could further the spread from 20/25 tons to 100. Players will be able to get to now cherry pick quirks (which could represent the MechWarrior telling the techs how to modify the chassis) and pay 10000 credits per 0.25% they would like to assign to cap of 5-7% based on chassis size, the pricing scale represents the increasing work needed of the techs to get the accuracy to that point (precision work takes money). the price could also increase based on weapon size, and would add an individual quirk for each weapon system / equipment piece..increasing DHS effectiveness, or ecm / bap effectiveness.

This way, when I look at a mech that has several ballistic hardpoints , I don't feel like I have to use an LBx for example based on the quirk. I can pick / choose at will if it will be an ac2,5,20, or an lbx, or guass. The MechWarrior has more control over his build. If you have a few chassis that have similar hardpoint distribution, you have more freedom to make a lrm 10 boat specifically, or srm / ssrm..or med las / pls las, ppc....you get the idea I think.

Now since this is an additional money sink..one the player can choose to spend, all prices, mechs, weapons, equipment etc, get lowered 20-25%. again an example.
Edited by Penance, 08 August 2015 - 05:54 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Lugh, on 10 August 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Nostalgia.

OR You have a community warfare system that has NPC AI controlling where their faction is attacking next and you are only allowed to bring these 10 mech chassis to this battle.

The defense is this other faction and they can only choose from these 10 mechs etc.

Could be an option, but that is a massively different game than we have now. If they implement that, then sure, we can give second line mechs to NPCs, but until then I need a reason to jump into that old Atlas. Nostalgia alone will not make it fun. At least not for me.

I love my Catapults, but I will not use them if they are not viable.

Lugh, on 10 August 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

This would require a simple lot of diligent work on the Lore, which PGI has profoundly shown very little interest in, which is a SHAME, because it is rich and hilariously deep in scope (those shallow in prejudice).

c'est la PGI (vie)

It's funny how the lorists feel there is not enough adherence to lore and the... not-lorists... think there is too much. Just proves that trying to walk the fine line between makes no one happy.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Savage Wolf, on 10 August 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

It's funny how the lorists feel there is not enough adherence to lore and the... not-lorists... think there is too much. Just proves that trying to walk the fine line between makes no one happy.

I don't think it is necessarily the case. I would love to see mechs more restricted on mechs/weapons they can use based on the faction they are aligned with, but the logistics and the careful balance that would require is just something that seems far out of PGI's capability, let alone many AAA developers.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

wasnt it to normalize the mechs?

But at the same time thats a stupid plan -.-

[Anjian]

I don't really like the way IS builds are built to optimize around quirks. Limits creativity. Creates the same build for that mech over and over.

I remember getting 5 kills on my Thunderbolt once, in the prequirk age. Using an AC5 mounted on the arm. When was the last time you see a ballistics heavy Thunderbolt? Today, such a build makes people question what the hell are you doing?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Savage Wolf, on 10 August 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

It's funny how the lorists feel there is not enough adherence to lore and the... not-lorists... think there is too much. Just proves that trying to walk the fine line between makes no one happy.

Dont know anyone who thinks theyre adhering it too much O.o this is just btech flavored at this point lol

Anjian, on 10 August 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

I don't really like the way IS builds are built to optimize around quirks. Limits creativity. Creates the same build for that mech over and over.

I remember getting 5 kills on my Thunderbolt once, in the prequirk age. Using an AC5 mounted on the arm. When was the last time you see a ballistics heavy Thunderbolt? Today, such a build makes people question what the hell are you doing?

Agreed entirely. I said as much when the first quirk pass went through and they gave AC10 quirks to the boar's head -.-

[Savage Wolf]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 10 August 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Dont know anyone who thinks theyre adhering it too much O.o this is just btech flavored at this point lol

I do, and I've seen plenty others annoyed that good gameplay elements are often dropped because of the outrage of the purists. So both points of view exists.

[Revis Volek]

Its to make IS mechs not feel like paraplegic babies when Clan mechs are on the field.

[Odinvolk]

Quirks also have another stupid side effect:

Mechs that used to run cool run hot when they get -cycle time on weapons. I swear my 3 x ML and 2 SSRM Raven was never shutting down after 3 shots of lasers. But i did have ML modules installed on it. And with the quirks this bird is cooked.

[Mystere]

Savage Wolf, on 09 August 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

Your Atlasses will stay in the hangar and you will be a burden to your team for picking them.

Since when did MWO transition from a video game played for entertainment purposes to a responsibility? <smh>

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Savage Wolf, on 10 August 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

I do, and I've seen plenty others annoyed that good gameplay elements are often dropped because of the outrage of the purists. So both points of view exists.

Im not a purist by any means but once they doubled the armor and started down that path, plus pinpoint all the time aiming it started down the sliding path of btech flavored lol

I guess Im a non purist because way back in CB I had the argument of if theyre gonna go all that stuff anyways then they should keep the look and the names etc but throw the table values out and make up their own numbers for balance

And I remember the counter argument for that my a guy whose name was mercury or something was that that would make it not a battletech game in the same way maple syrup flavored syrup isnt really maple syrup

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 10 August 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Mystere, on 10 August 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Since when did MWO transition from a video game played for entertainment purposes to a responsibility? <smh>

When it became multiplayer. You influence other people's games. You should have some respect for that. Within limits of course.

[Top Leliel]

1) differentiating similar mechs and variants based on the strengths and weaknesses of chassis design

2)balancing the game by giving weaker mechs a niche

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mystere, on 10 August 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Since when did MWO transition from a video game played for entertainment purposes to a responsibility? <smh>

Then Im damn sure a liability when Im running my 4 LRM10 or 4 LRM15 Kinc Crab cause those things are a waste of tonnage lol

[Joseph Mallan]

Savage Wolf, on 09 August 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

Yeah, that's the problem. Your Atlasses will stay in the hangar and you will be a burden to your team for picking them. And why waste development time on mechs that are not going to leave the hangers? I guess they could just model them, but not animate them because they are just pretty to look at. And really, what value does that have for new players?

No, MWO is an online shooter, so all choices should be made as viable as possible.

His may not leave the hanger... but mine hardly stays in em! And one in three teams are unhappy of it.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 10 August 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Then Im damn sure a liability when Im running my 4 LRM10 or 4 LRM15 Kinc Crab cause those things are a waste of tonnage lol

Until that one game they arent....LOL

Joseph Mallan, on 10 August 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

His may not leave the hanger... but mine hardly stays in em! And one in three teams are unhappy of it.

Even in a whale i still respect that mech at short range. Especially if the driver seems competent.