24 replies to this topic

[Antzs]

Hey guys,

I had a thought that Tonnage can be better balance for pug games. The idea is that like picking different servers. Players can pick pre-picked mechs for each weight class first and op in the weight weight calls or out during launch. This way the matchmaker has up to 4 different mechs to choose from for tonnage. This will make better games for weight class and quicker launch times.

For the all round win-win?

[El Bandito]

But what if the player doesn't wish to play Lights/Mediums, period? Or what if the player only wants to master the new Assault mech that he bought? That means he will have to waste time either playing in mechs that he does not wish to be playing in the first place, or waiting for a long time in the queue.

IMO, a better solution/enticement is needed. You have to understand, MWO gates new players with only four mechbays. Only four. It will take incredible amount of time and wasted effort for the newbies to populate them with four different class of mechs, that are mastered.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[Black Arachne]

Tonnage is a bad way to balance since it fails to account for all variables.

[Ralgas]

Like most of these idea's

It'd be fine except the player pool is small enough that wait times would be atrocious. Even then, tell me any of these matchups is fair-

orion->timberwolf
panther->firestarter
kitfox-> arctic cheetah
atlas ->direwolf
atlas ->king crab

Edited by Ralgas, 09 August 2015 - 11:10 PM.

[TwentyOne]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

But what if the player doesn't wish to play Lights/Mediums, period? Or what if the player only wants to master the new Assault mech that he bought? That means he will have to waste time either playing in mechs that he does not wish to be playing in the first place, or waiting for a long time in the queue.

IMO, a better solution/enticement is needed. You have to understand, MWO gates new players with only four mechbays. Only four. It will take incredible amount of time and wasted effort for the newbies to populate them with four different class of mechs, that are mastered.

too ******* bad. Play the damn game\
edit: as in stop only pilioting 1 class ever

Edited by TwentyOne, 09 August 2015 - 11:11 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Black Arachne, on 09 August 2015 - 10:59 PM, said:

Tonnage is a bad way to balance since it fails to account for all variables.

Namely, Spider/Cute Fox VS Cheetah or Orion VS Timby.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

How about role based balancing.

For example, fast lights fill a scout slot, while slower heavily armed lights might fill a flanker or medium type slot.

The Cicada would fill a scout role instead of wasting a medium slot like it currently does.

you know things like that

[Serpieri]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 09 August 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

How about role based balancing.

For example, fast lights fill a scout slot, while slower heavily armed lights might fill a flanker or medium type slot.

The Cicada would fill a scout role instead of wasting a medium slot like it currently does.

you know things like that

Role Warfare doesn't exist in this game.

[darkchylde]

Serpieri, on 09 August 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

Role Warfare doesn't exist in this game.

Which is a shame really since Battletech has multiple roles.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ralgas, on 09 August 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

Like most of these idea's

It'd be fine except the player pool is small enough that wait times would be atrocious. Even then, tell me any of these matchups is fair-

orion->timberwolf
panther->firestarter
kitfox-> arctic cheetah
atlas ->direwolf
atlas ->king crab

Who is driving which Mechs? Me in a Firestarter or Arctic Cheetah is easy pickings for an average light Pilot.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 August 2015 - 04:36 AM.

[Kiiyor]

I'm liking the sound of the new BVish pass. They'll be ranking mechs, and using that to decide balance through quirks.

Hopefully... it carries over into the matchmaker. If it uses that BVish system, and ELO, we should get much better matches.

While ELO can cater for player skill (roughly) it's borderline irrelevant when an Awesome can be matched up with a GigaWhale.

[Johnny Z]

A drop deck for regular matches? Then match maker chooses one to make a balanced match? A new idea. Not sure how much everyone would like that or if it would be tough to add. Not sure how much I would like that. Interesting though.

For this to work it would have to be for a series of 4 matches.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 August 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

Kiiyor, on 10 August 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

I'm liking the sound of the new BVish pass. They'll be ranking mechs, and using that to decide balance through quirks.

Hopefully... it carries over into the matchmaker. If it uses that BVish system, and ELO, we should get much better matches.

While ELO can cater for player skill (roughly) it's borderline irrelevant when an Awesome can be matched up with a GigaWhale.

They're getting rid of Elo... in the same town hall Russ admitted Elo is a joke and doesnt work for MWO. They're gonna dump the system for an actual skill-based system.

[FupDup]

TwentyOne, on 09 August 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

edit: as in stop only pilioting 1 class ever

Narcissistic Martyr, on 09 August 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

How about role based balancing.

For example, fast lights fill a scout slot, while slower heavily armed lights might fill a flanker or medium type slot.

The Cicada would fill a scout role instead of wasting a medium slot like it currently does.

you know things like that

The problem is that your system would make the slow lights occupy the same slot as an actual medium mech, the latter of which are far better at the role of being a medium than the lights are.

Edited by FupDup, 10 August 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[Mechteric]

Black Arachne, on 09 August 2015 - 10:59 PM, said:

Tonnage is a bad way to balance since it fails to account for all variables.

But it is an important variable. If you put 12 players who are equally matched in all ways against another 12 players, but those other 12 players are 200 tons heavier overall, guess who's going to win? Attrition (as a result of more armor and more weapons) matters when all else is equal.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 10 August 2015 - 06:29 AM.

[Simbacca]

The issue of tonnage limits and class limits was dealt with long ago. The current class limit system works (and is a lot simpler to implement to boot), albeit it does bring its own wait time issue.

As argued before, to encourage mechs other than Heavies can be resolved by changing how C-Bills [XP would not be affected] are paid out to other classes. Once the Heavy queue goes above a certain threshold, their C-Bill payout (but not XP) would lower to encourage players (whilst not punishing heavy players who are trying to level up) to use other weight classes.



What the OP is suggesting would complicate Match Maker even more - as in addition to be able to assemble mechs to meet the threshold per team, it would also have to make sure the tonnage between the two are relatively closely balanced, and on top of that some how deal with however ELO is determined. And I suspect the wait times would be even worse.

[spectralthundr]

Tonnage does not account for actual skill. I and others I'm sure routinely outperform much larger mechs in much smaller mechs. Watching Atlas pilots break less than a 100 damage while I'm doing 500+ in a shadowcat or Cheetah for example.

[Burktross]

TwentyOne, on 09 August 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

too ******* bad. Play the damn game\
edit: as in stop only pilioting 1 class ever

Easy for you to say.
I play the game how I want too. I can carry in my locust, but in an Atlas I'm a liability. Why do I not only not get to play the mechs I bought with real money, but gimp the team in the process.

Edited by Burktross, 10 August 2015 - 07:17 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Just for fun, if you feel the Tonnage ranges are badly skewed, scrn cap every Match you play for a week or 2 and do the Maths. It may seem like most things, way off but likely the norm is a fairly acceptable margin.

As for critical "variables" that need be accounted for. To many to count in MWO with the players ability to self gimp an assault Mech just for shits and giggles. Have seem many 100t Assaults with piss poor load-outs to assume the system can ever account for those when weight of machine is also seen as a critical "variable"

[WarHippy]

TwentyOne, on 09 August 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

too ******* bad. Play the damn game\
edit: as in stop only pilioting 1 class ever

Too ******* bad? How about you stop trying to dictate how people play and/or enjoy the game? I would much rather see people playing what they want and enjoy so they actually stick around and maybe even spend some money on mechs they actually want to play rather than be forced to play something they don't want to play for some false sense of balance. (Feel free to use your imagination to fill this space with an appropriate amount of vitriol and snark and then double it to get a rough idea of what I really want to say to you.)