127 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

EDIT: my mistakes when posting this thread.

#1 using the MWO forums
#2 forgetting to mention that lights can do whatever they damn well please as long as they contribute
#3 not describing the size of the desired formation well enough
#4 not adding a quality visual aid





This has become one of the hotter topics of contemporary MWO. Do snipers exist? I strongly believe that , no, they don't. Or shouldn't, anyway. If you are more than 50-100m behind your teammates you are a coward, not a support mech. The irrefutable reason? :The symbiotic shield is bar-none the best defense in MWO. Even organized teams will waste rounds while they coordinate their focus fire, and in 99% of matches where focus fire is mediocre to nonexistent, the symbiotic shield is god mode. In short, be aggressive, and stick right next to your teammates. Anything else is actually playing wrong.

Edited by LordBraxton, 11 August 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

you are talking about deathball. ye, it works.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Snipers exist and can be useful standing a thousand meters away from their team.

[FupDup]

Snoipah no snoiping?

[Mechteric]

An effective dual gauss sniper can be quite deadly given the right situation.


However, being an effective sniper requires mobility and/or positioning in such a way that it properly supports the efforts of the team. So if you decide to stay on that hill 1 kilometer away as your team moves further beyond the reach of your hill, well you need to relocate, and quickly.

[LordBraxton]

Im going to stop using the word sniper because its dirty. 'Precision builds,' like dual gauss are GREAT! This has nothing to do with mech builds. I just know that all builds belong in the deathball. Just stick right behind your teammates and deathball to win. Zeratul, you clearly don't know how to play MWO, because nothing is useful 100s of meters away in MWO, much less 1000s... you cant even shoot past 1300 with gauss... and even then a lone mech is always useless. Be ashamed. Don't abandon your deathball. Ever.

Titannium, on 10 August 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

you are talking about deathball. ye, it works.

you make it sound so simple (it is really) yet even in the group queue everyone seems to forget

Edited by LordBraxton, 10 August 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[Lugh]

Most of the 'snipers' I see are Raven 3L pilots that are patently bad at aiming and tickling people with the ERLL spam.

The true snipers are a much rarer breed. (Que the Raven 3L pilots outrage that his KDR is bettah than that). With your ECM you should be working the back of your own group so you can rush to cover people with your ECM and earn the protected light awards. Not cowering in some corner doing 1pt of damage from 1500meters away.

[LordBraxton]

Lugh, on 10 August 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

Most of the 'snipers' I see are Raven 3L pilots that are patently bad at aiming and tickling people with the ERLL spam.

The true snipers are a much rarer breed. (Que the Raven 3L pilots outrage that his KDR is bettah than that). With your ECM you should be working the back of your own group so you can rush to cover people with your ECM and earn the protected light awards. Not cowering in some corner doing 1pt of damage from 1500meters away.

Yes this is doing it right. 'Sniper' mechs belong at the back of the deathball where they are safe, but still close enough to apply immediate pressure and add to the symbiotic shield. +1 for you and your kind

[MeiSooHaityu]

I disagree.

If my team is engaging 300m away from the enemy, and I have a clear line of site 600m away from the enemy and I am still within or near my optimal engagement range, why do I feel the need to be within 100m of my team taking incoming fire in a ranged build? I have cover where I'm at, I'm not the main focus, and I can always shadow my team anyway so I don't get left behind (I tend to play fire support in smaller quicker mechs anyway). I just don't see the need to join the death ball with some builds.

I understand if you don't want slower heavies or assaults getting left behind because they are too far back and too slow, but there are some builds that accel at ranged fire support, can shadow their team at range, and don't need to be forced into short range combat they are not best suited for.

I just don't think it is fair to generalize. Certain mechs and loadouts should be run in their appropriate ways and not be forced into less optimal play styles.

[MechB Kotare]

I like using ER technology and all its pros (long range). Dont expect me to brawl/rush/deathball with you. I like destroying mechs from 1k distance. More aim precision skill than fighting at 50m.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Long range sniping is really rare,and almost suicidal in pug games.Good positioning and luck might get decent results 1 in 15 games,but usually its just deathball vs deathball.

I always cringe when i see people running Raven 3L:s as a sniper in this current situation where literally one shot from a countersniper can shut you down. 3 ER LL + Gauss or beefier assault spots you -> bye bye.

Within 500-600 meters sniping with any midrange(or better)-mech or build can be successful and not bad for your teams overall performance.

[Yellonet]

I smell that someone *coughOPcough* is a bit tired of the fact that deathball is the overwhelmingly best tactic.

IMO it's boring and true... best deathball wins :/

Edited by Yellonet, 10 August 2015 - 06:35 AM.

[Mycrus]

LordBraxton, on 10 August 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

Be ashamed. Don't abandon your deathball. Ever.

even in a light, ever?

[nehebkau]

LordBraxton, on 10 August 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

This has become one of the hotter topics of contemporary MWO. Do snipers exist? I strongly believe that , no, they don't. Or shouldn't, anyway. If you are more than 50-100m behind your teammates you are a coward, not a support mech. The irrefutable reason? :The symbiotic shield is bar-none the best defense in MWO. Even organized teams will waste rounds while they coordinate their focus fire, and in 99% of matches where focus fire is mediocre to nonexistent, the symbiotic shield is god mode. In short, be aggressive, and stick right next to your teammates. Anything else is actually playing wrong.

What if you are 1000M in front of your team-mates front line and firing backwards into the enemy's backs?

[LordBraxton]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 August 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

I disagree.

If my team is engaging 300m away from the enemy, and I have a clear line of site 600m away from the enemy and I am still within or near my optimal engagement range, why do I feel the need to be within 100m of my team taking incoming fire in a ranged build? I have cover where I'm at, I'm not the main focus, and I can always shadow my team anyway so I don't get left behind (I tend to play fire support in smaller quicker mechs anyway). I just don't see the need to join the death ball with some builds.

I understand if you don't want slower heavies or assaults getting left behind because they are too far back and too slow, but there are some builds that accel at ranged fire support, can shadow their team at range, and don't need to be forced into short range combat they are not best suited for.

I just don't think it is fair to generalize. Certain mechs and loadouts should be run in their appropriate ways and not be forced into less optimal play styles.

If you want to stop their to take shots that is fine, but by the time your battle line is within 200m of the enemy battle line you should be with your team. Comp games are an enigma because MWO is so tiny, and the other 99% of matches in the group queue go to whoever was more aggressive and closer together.

[Cerberias]

Lol @ ravens being outsniped. Have you ever seen a good one? They're virtually invulnerable at range when played right.

[Davegt27]

Are you trying to get rid of people shooting you in the back? lol

[LordBraxton]

Mycrus, on 10 August 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

even in a light, ever?

You can stick within 150m of your team without stopping your roll in a light. After the enemies position has been located, and unless you have serious coordination to go kill any idiots trying to play sniper on the other team, yes you should rejoin the deathball. (flying around it like a drone)

Yellonet, on 10 August 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

I smell that someone *coughOPcough* is a bit tired of the fact that deathball is the overwhelmingly best tactic.

Yes. But MWO never changes. I am more exhausted by the people who decide they'd rather hide in the back and help the enemy team.

Davegt27, on 10 August 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

Are you trying to get rid of people shooting you in the back? lol

yes. this too. snipers do massive damage. to their teammates.

[MeiSooHaityu]

LordBraxton, on 10 August 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

If you want to stop their to take shots that is fine, but by the time your battle line is within 200m of the enemy battle line you should be with your team. Comp games are an enigma because MWO is so tiny, and the other 99% of matches in the group queue go to whoever was more aggressive and closer together.

If you are playing with a coordinated team, then communication like calling out targets of opportunity should be more important.

Look, if you are offering fire support at range and you can see the same opponents your team can, then might as well stay at range (as long as your weapons are effective at that range).

If you can't see your teams focused targets, you need to relocate (you should be doing anyway as your team moves).

If at range you can't get clear shots, then I can see moving up closer. Still, once the enemy locates and takes cover where you might be able to see them at range, I'd drop back again.

Overall, there is a lot of positioning and communication that should be going on. I don't think long range support means staying stationary and twiddling your thumbs when the team isn't visible. You need to kind of anticipate movements and be ready.

Again, just my opinion.

[Greenjulius]

Yellonet, on 10 August 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

I smell that someone *coughOPcough* is a bit tired of the fact that deathball is the overwhelmingly best tactic.

IMO it's pretty boring that it's true... best deathball wins :/

It's really sad but true. Throw an overwhelming number of mechs at the enemy and try to pick them off with focus fire, one by one, removing their firepower quicker than the enemy. That's the most proven strategy in MWO comp play.

It works even better when it's done at a time when the enemy is not ready, and focus fires on a high armor assault, like a talented whirling Atlas pilot. I've watched team after team fall to it, and there isn't a great way to counter it other than being ready and ignoring the obvious meat shield.

Back on topic; snipers exist in this game, but not in the capacity some bads try to play them. Every time I see Enhanced Zoom equipped I facepalm, knowing that they could have equipped Radar Dep/Seismic/Target Info instead.

Snipers in MWO are best used as a screening force to break up an enemy formation, or as flank exploiters. I've seen EMP put mechs on their rear flanks so if they have to fall back and the enemy pursues, they'll walk right into a perfect firing lane for a sniper.

Snipers really can't solo unless they either want an early death to an enemy light, or to be the last guy on the field, running from the entire enemy team. The latter usually ends with the noob killing himself, probably 90% of the time.

Edited by Greenjulius, 10 August 2015 - 06:44 AM.