127 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

Strongly disagree. Fighting starts at 600m and just gets closer as the time goes on yes, but if you do not have some sniper support then you will always be seeing fresh mechs when they get in brawling range.

Most of my medium builds that I do well and enjoy are 2 ERPPC and some medium lasers. Reason why is I can snipe and do a little brawling (although I am not an assault mech trying to do this but a medium mech).

[TheDevilsIncarnate]

I really don't see the point of bringing my 3 ERLL Shadow Cat to the front lines where it will get slaughtered by all the Dires and Crabs wandering around.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Soy, on 11 August 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

dude its real simple, there are mechs that are not built to soak damage, if they are doing so, it is a detriment to their team, because they need to be in the back laying suppression, etc

do you think a lrm boat should be out front, for example

seriously, take a moment to meditate on the notion that some mechs are supposed to be taking damage, while others are not.

a brawling atlas is supposed to take damage, right. it would be dumb for it to sit in the back, right.

a sniping gausser or poptart is not supposed to take damage, right. it would be dumb for it to walk up and brawl, right.

btw im not popular, i dont even play this game with anyone 99% of the time and i get lots of flak from nerds like you. how am i elitist, i havn't comped in yrs.

I've noticed in a lot of european server games, people split, hide and wait for their dead to drop dead before doing anything. It happens much more on the european server than it does the north america or oceanic servers.

That's where Braxton is coming from. He's upset his team on the european server constantly splits with everyone expecting everyone else to do something. Nothing gets done and his team loses. For some bizarre reason, he blames "snipers". Snipers have nothing to do with it.

[Bishop Steiner]

TheDevilsIncarnate, on 11 August 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

I really don't see the point of bringing my 3 ERLL Shadow Cat to the front lines where it will get slaughtered by all the Dires and Crabs wandering around.

maybe that speaks more about the viability of 3ERLL Scats, than anything. BTW, PLEASE try to keep those lasers on me for duration...I got a pair of Gauss just waiting to meet you.....

[Wayward Herald]

One of my top mechs is the Jagers with twin g-canons,xl260 and everything else into ammo about 70 rounds. Easily take down 2-3 mechs per match, plus loads of assists.

Stay at long range and do not show off or your dead if the lights see you. oh and if you have the chance target the lights as much as you can, nothing left but dust after the 1st good shot

[InspectorG]

LordBraxton, on 10 August 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

Im going to stop using the word sniper because its dirty. 'Precision builds,' like dual gauss are GREAT! This has nothing to do with mech builds. I just know that all builds belong in the deathball. Just stick right behind your teammates and deathball to win. Zeratul, you clearly don't know how to play MWO, because nothing is useful 100s of meters away in MWO, much less 1000s... you cant even shoot past 1300 with gauss... and even then a lone mech is always useless. Be ashamed. Don't abandon your deathball. Ever.

Think you have some things confused

1st, murderballs are likely the best Pug tactic WHEN they happen. Its very similar to a school of fish. You get more so concentrated fire and the enemy has to deal with multiple targets barreling down on them. Without leadership or skill to call priority targets or knowing how to kite, or even fixing bayonets for CC, most recipients of a murderball crumple.

But i think you assume working murderballs happen all the time. They dont.

2nd, while correct about teammates being able to contribute to absorbing enemy fire so no one particular temmate gets focused...you are leaving out a few things.
A. thats a Group drop concern more than Solo. Solo is far too unorganized. You are ASSUMING solos have the skill to twist damage/deadside and know just WHEN to fall back to rearguard. They dont. Ive seen numerous pilots runt o the back when their arm gets cored and they get timid.

B. Some mech dont tank well or at all. LIGHTS shouldnt because speed is their armor. Pilot Locust for a while and stay 100m near the enemy all the time. Good luck with dat.
Other heavier mechs cant tank well due to hitboxes.
Go brawl in a Warhawk and a Stalker. see which one lasts longer on average.

C. Range. Now, it is debatable on whether sniping is even a role. I say no but label it as a skill. A skill a few have and can make work. A skill many THINK they have but cant even.
Light 'snipers' with skill can Vulture like mad and may be able to carry. ERPPC Spiders of old.
Again with the Warhawk and RANGE.
I dont know if you want to label this semantics but a 4LPL Warhawk is WASTED at 100-300m

WASTED

C-LPL are optimal about 600M out. That nets you good trades versus most mechs at range and you have likely better cooling for more DPS.

Why should i risk my fragile Warhawk at 100m where multiple fast moving enemies can cut me up when all i need is POSITION and TERRAIN to get an angle and apply decent PRESSURE on the enemy who usually is trying to avoid confrontation???

See, TERRAIN has UNLIMITED HP!!!!!!
And POSITIONING allows me to use TIMING to the the enemy with little retaliation so my ARMOR is saved for later end match.

Am i a detriment to my team if i hide...but STILL CRANK OUT DAMAGE? 500-700 points of damage with a few kills?
Was i sniping? Or was i Direct Fire Support at Range?
Does it matter whatever you call it?

Really its a breakdown of skill between those who have it, and those who dont. Builds and Styles matter less in Solo.

[TheDevilsIncarnate]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 August 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

maybe that speaks more about the viability of 3ERLL Scats, than anything. BTW, PLEASE try to keep those lasers on me for duration...I got a pair of Gauss just waiting to meet you.....

I don't see the problem with a 3 ERLL SCH, it's better than sporting 2 hot ER-PPC's or trying to use 2 LPL at range. It's just too fragile for the front lines and too light for any kind of PPC boating, and if you can hide with your dual guass I can most assuredly hide from the enemy in my smaller SCH...

[Davers]

Lugh, on 11 August 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

There is no risk in a game that LACKS REPAIR AND REARM.

You just load up and do it again.

R&R doesn't add any more depth to the game modes we have.

Edited by Davers, 11 August 2015 - 11:59 AM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

LordBraxton, on 10 August 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

This has become one of the hotter topics of contemporary MWO. Do snipers exist? I strongly believe that , no, they don't. Or shouldn't, anyway. If you are more than 50-100m behind your teammates you are a coward, not a support mech. The irrefutable reason? :The symbiotic shield is bar-none the best defense in MWO. Even organized teams will waste rounds while they coordinate their focus fire, and in 99% of matches where focus fire is mediocre to nonexistent, the symbiotic shield is god mode. In short, be aggressive, and stick right next to your teammates. Anything else is actually playing wrong.

This sort of logic doesn't even hold true in high-end WoT pub play, where all tanks have effectively the same range. In that game a "sniper" is generally just a tank that has a low damage output but high accuracy ie: trash, however in cases where that accuracy is paired with high mobility, you can be an extremely effective force multiplier.

MWO is even further removed from the "sniper=trash" logic since weapon range is an actual relevant stat. By playing away from the team I can: screen and make opening shots, create second angles in situations where neither team wants to push, find positions behind the team where I can put out 100% DPS without blocking the movement or fire of allies.

Your entire argument is also based on the assumption that all HP is equal. It is not. My HP in an elited Grid Iron is, point for point, probably 10x more valuable than the hp of an Atlas piloted by someone that isn't skilled enough to operate a calculator. It makes no sense for me to take shots for a mech that is both more durable and in all likelihood less capable of carrying once teams are thinned out.

In WoT, this is why many top players prefer tanks like the Leo 1, T-62a, batchat etc: because being able to move freely about the playing field and do damage without being hit *at all* is more valuable than taking hits for a player that in all likelihood has simply no idea what to do with the sacrifice you have just made for them. If you don't know the level of skill of the people you are playing with, there is really no sense in taking hits for them, it's just going to leave you frustrated.

[Jman5]

My biggest nightmare is when I have the entire enemy team in front except 1 heavy behind me just smashing my back. I can't turn and rush him or the main body will wrap around and clean my clock. I can't just turn and trade with him or I expose my back to the main body.

Going off on your own like that is risky because you can easily get swamped by opposing lights, but when it works it's devastating. Most of my bad losses happen because one or two enemies are off the side and our fast movers are just huddling in the group.

The best example of this can be seen on Canyon Network.

Edited by Jman5, 11 August 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

Not snipers in the sense of other FPS games with Guillie suit and long gun, but there is a role to be played to fire on the enemy from concealment, with the hopes of creating another angle of fire that prevents or hinders their ability to move freely about the battlefield.

One shot one kill? Highly unlikely but not impossible.

Putting fear into the other teams by making them even more timid and deterring them from peeking or moving around cover freely? Absolutely, probably more so than you think, especially in the pug queue.

[Dirkdaring]

LordBraxton, on 10 August 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

This has become one of the hotter topics of contemporary MWO. Do snipers exist? I strongly believe that , no, they don't. Or shouldn't, anyway. If you are more than 50-100m behind your teammates you are a coward, not a support mech. The irrefutable reason? :The symbiotic shield is bar-none the best defense in MWO. Even organized teams will waste rounds while they coordinate their focus fire, and in 99% of matches where focus fire is mediocre to nonexistent, the symbiotic shield is god mode. In short, be aggressive, and stick right next to your teammates. Anything else is actually playing wrong.

If you are that close to your team you are in for some arty hurt.

[LordBraxton]

Soy, on 11 August 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

dude its real simple, there are mechs that are not built to soak damage, if they are doing so, it is a detriment to their team, because they need to be in the back laying suppression, etc

do you think a lrm boat should be out front, for example

seriously, take a moment to meditate on the notion that some mechs are supposed to be taking damage, while others are not.

a brawling atlas is supposed to take damage, right. it would be dumb for it to sit in the back, right.

a sniping gausser or poptart is not supposed to take damage, right. it would be dumb for it to walk up and brawl, right.

btw im not popular, i dont even play this game with anyone 99% of the time and i get lots of flak from nerds like you. how am i elitist, i havn't comped in yrs.

thats better, because that's an argument. I called you an elitist because you called me a moron without even providing an argument.

I apologize because my blunt tonality caused this thread to derail by halfway down the first page.

I dont think people realize how large 100m is in terms of space between mechs in a formation.

if all mechs stay within 100m of each other you can still have a formation that stretches up to 600m (1200 if you do 1 rank but that's stupid)

Are we perhaps not even discussing the same concept? My argument is that if you are 150m+ away from any teammates in a 'sniper' mech you are too far away to adjust during close combat situations. you are either easy prey for brawler lights or no help to your team in a larger general melee.

Imagine a 300-500m diameter circle\oval with 12 mechs in it. (I prefer 250m or so, this is still wide enough to make arty a nonissue)

This entire thread was about the guy standing 100+ extra meters outside the formation in the rear hiding. I'll never think these players are smart or skilled, but I have a feeling we havent even been having the same discussion.

My argument isnt 'Snipers to the vanguard!' it's, 'snipers stay 100m behind me and support me, dont hide 200m back behind coverwhile everyone else dies.'

My biggest mistake is not drawing diagrams. If you dont add colorful pictures on this forum you just get troll rolled.

Edited by LordBraxton, 11 August 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

IMO a sniper requires ECM.

[Light-Speed]

The existence of the Cicada-3M refutes the OP's claim.

It is the sniper in the truest sense.

[Deathlike]

Snipers are actually useful... if they are able to suppress, and occasionally kill mechs. I know that sounds like the role of an LRM boat, but the LRM boat exposes itself far longer that deliver its payload (especially if it has a large LRM investment).

They can allow for the brawlers to do their things as necessary... at least for the purposes of pushing/aggression.

The problem is that those that are ineffective at it tend to do little to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Snipers aren't bad, but they need to be productive and effective at doing what they need to do, or you end up looking like a rambo in a different loadout.

[Mystere]

LordBraxton, on 11 August 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

My biggest mistake is not drawing diagrams. If you dont add colorful pictures on this forum you just get troll rolled.

Or you're walking back your previous statement, just like a politician.

[Pjwned]

LordBraxton, on 11 August 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Are we perhaps not even discussing the same concept? My argument is that if you are 150m+ away from any teammates in a 'sniper' mech you are too far away to adjust during close combat situations. you are either easy prey for brawler lights or no help to your team in a larger general melee.

That's not always a given fact by any means though, especially if you're piloting a faster mech. Yes, that can be the case if you stray too far away or you're a bad pilot and have bad positioning, but otherwise there are often plenty of opportunities to get some damage in at long range and the battlefield is not a constant melee slugfest either.

Sounds like you're mostly just criticizing bad snipers for being bad rather than making an actual valid point about sniping being bad.

[Kjudoon]

Davers, on 11 August 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

R&R doesn't add any more depth to the game modes we have.

No but it smartens up the Rambo crowd pretty darn quick.

Fine, instead of adding R&R, consider "Good Piloting" bonuses to CBills. Coming back with ammo left and armor on the vehicle, let alone all 8 components, you get a nice sized bonus for not being a moron and getting your mech shot to pieces screaming LEEEROOOYYYYYYYYY!!!! all the way.

So yes, your mech is automatically repaired to full, but you don't get bonuses.

[Davers]

Kjudoon, on 11 August 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

No but it smartens up the Rambo crowd pretty darn quick.

Fine, instead of adding R&R, consider "Good Piloting" bonuses to CBills. Coming back with ammo left and armor on the vehicle, let alone all 8 components, you get a nice sized bonus for not being a moron and getting your mech shot to pieces screaming LEEEROOOYYYYYYYYY!!!! all the way.

So yes, your mech is automatically repaired to full, but you don't get bonuses.

It doesn't just punish 'Rambo' players. It punishes anyone who might spearhead a push. It will be the absolute death of any kind of brawling, because brawlers ARE going to take damage. Do we need to encourage more of a sniper meta?