16 replies to this topic

[Orzorn]

In every past game ,except for Mechwarrior 3 (but even that suffered in this aspect as well), we see most mechs standing like this:


The arms are always at a 90 degree angle with the torso, and they just stand like this the entire game. Mechwarrior 3, due to its unique aiming scheme, allowed arms to move about and helped make things a little less stale, but I'm not asking for that exactly (although I would love to see a floating crosshair return, but that is beside the point). No, I'd like it if mechs with arms did what we see them do in books, art, and even cutscenes:

I want to see them put their arms out and point their weapons. We see it all the time in the art, and even in at least one cutscene.
http://www.youtube.c...X3GD0UnBCk#t=1m

I imagine they way they would do this is that, if you have a weapon group selected that uses any weapon in your arms, you mech would raise up their arm and point it. I'm not going to lie, this is entirely about aesthetics (Although it would make it easier to see a humanoid mech rounding a corner, because having their arm out would make them easier to see), but I'd love to see it actually come to life, because I've seen it so many other times in all the other media except for the games.

[Brenden]

I agree with you, I remember seeing a picture of an ATLAS punching in the cockpit of a WAR HAWK. I often imagine, what could happen if, Running out of ammo for my Archer and my Medium Lasers are destoryed, if I picked up that tank down there by the barrel and used it as a mace until it was smashed to peices? Your thoughts?

[AlanEsh]

I would love to see firing animations beyond the "elbows bent, arms at sides" typical.

Regarding punching and melee, devs said they're not going to make that feature right away.

[Brenden]

Aw, I would have loved to see that. Well, perhaps instead of just offensive why not defensive? You see LRMs heading toward your head, raise the arms up to try and stop most if not all the missles?

[Tannhauser Gate]

Would be cool but it would require that you interface with your mech in some way beyond kb/mouse, stick, or even hotas. You would need Xbox Kinect or Wii-mote style controllers that read your arm movements to anticipate your shot. Otherwise, it would add a full second or more between the time you pull the trigger and the time your mech shoots as the torso and arms move and extend..unacceptable for most players Im sure.

Additionally, because mechs are so much more massive, their movements would be slower than a humans, so suddenly your mech isnt aiming or shooting as fast as your mouse and keyboard. Anyone with motion sensing aiming would be eaten alive someone who uses kb and mouse.

It would also imply melee combat and some form of hand use. I dont see this happening as it would require alot of programming that wouldnt be central to the game's scope.

This has been talked about over and over and will be again Im sure. Maybe someday when motion sensing is common on PCs and they program the Mechs to respond accordingly. I think we will be lucky to have our heads tracked so we can look around our cockpits, out the windows from all angles, and target with a moving reticule.

Edited by lakedaemon, 01 December 2011 - 11:42 AM.

[Red Beard]

lakedaemon, on 01 December 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

You would need Xbox Kinect or Wii-mote style controllers that read your arm movements to anticipate your shot. Otherwise, it would add a full second or more between the time you pull the trigger and the time your mech shoots as the torso and arms move and extend..unacceptable for most players Im sure.

Not if the weapons remained engaged on the reticle full time.

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Additionally, because mechs are so much more massive, their movements would be slower than a humans, so suddenly your mech isnt aiming or shooting as fast as your mouse and keyboard. Anyone with motion sensing aiming would be eaten alive someone who uses kb and mouse.

See above.

[Raeven]

It doesn't have to be that complicated. Just animate arm attacks a couple of different ways. Then randomly use the animations based on the surroundings. If extending your arm would put it through a wall, the arm stays bent. Otherwise, variety.

It could even be used to show when a Pilot is taking time to aim, like looking down the iron sights of a gun.

[Raeven]

lakedaemon, on 01 December 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

Additionally, because mechs are so much more massive, their movements would be slower than a humans, so suddenly your mech isnt aiming or shooting as fast as your mouse and keyboard. Anyone with motion sensing aiming would be eaten alive someone who uses kb and mouse.

Don't try to apply imagined realism to Battletech. All you do is limit your options when you do.

[God of War]

Battletech is not Logictech!

[Agasutin]

Go! Go! Hatchetmen!

[VYCanis]

i like the idea of the arms just kinda doing their own thing in a quasi context sensitive manner.

so long as they are still pointed on target, what does it matter?

maybe by default they are at elbows bent position. But then maybe randomly, maybe inside certain parameters they might come up in cool poses.

mech commander kinda had this where units that didn't have a target and were just running around would swing their arms freely as they ran, but as soon as battle started, their arms would be pointing forwards or what have you

[zverofaust]

I'm sorry but the video in the OP looked absolutely retarded and I'd hate to see any of that **** in MWO.

[Phades]

Raeven, on 01 December 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

Don't try to apply imagined realism to Battletech. All you do is limit your options when you do.

True, but it would be nice to see actual "turret" speeds being applied instead of instant convergence as observed in previous tittles. The only "turret" speed observed was really the torso twist speed being fixed.

As far as defensive maneuvers or melee is concerned, really they can be as simple a 1 key stroke or 2 key stroke combinations to pull it off, but the arms and legs in question would require collision logic programmed into the game. I mean, it is not like you are trying to catch a missile between the mech's fingers, you would only need to be covering up like boxers do. No real need for jab vs hook vs uppercut mechanics either since the base rules that they would have to go from fix the damage pretty linearly. The game isn't the movie real steel. Depth perception, reach distance, and where the collisions occurrence are the real concerns.

I mean hell, they could even do it as simply as programming Tifa's beat rush as a "single" melee attack. Que it up with one key stroke and "fire" it off when in range with the left mouse. Push attack, same deal, que it and fire it when in range with the mouse. Hatchet, sword, or club? Same deal. Just get it in front of center reticule and let it rip. No need to get fancy there.

Edited by Phades, 04 December 2011 - 07:36 PM.

[Orzorn]

zverofaust, on 04 December 2011 - 01:52 PM, said:

I'm sorry but the video in the OP looked absolutely retarded and I'd hate to see any of that **** in MWO.

You mean one of the best intros to possibly the best game in the Mechwarrior series?

Perhaps you should elaborate instead of squealing angrily at me.

Phades said:

True, but it would be nice to see actual "turret" speeds being applied instead of instant convergence as observed in previous tittles. The only "turret" speed observed was really the torso twist speed being fixed.

I'm pretty sure that Mechwarrior 3 had a little turret momentum, as I would sometimes 'overswing' my turret while twisting.

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I mean hell, they could even do it as simply as programming Tifa's beat rush as a "single" melee attack. Que it up with one key stroke and "fire" it off when in range with the left mouse. Push attack, same deal, que it and fire it when in range with the mouse. Hatchet, sword, or club? Same deal. Just get it in front of center reticule and let it rip. No need to get fancy there.

Yes, this is how I imagine it would work. Essentially just use a melee toggle key and then use the normal firing button to accomplish it. If I recall, that is actually how melee works in the lore as well. Just push the melee button and point and click. The mech does the rest of the work.

Edited by Orzorn, 11 December 2011 - 04:06 PM.

[Raeven]

Orzorn, on 11 December 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

Yes, this is how I imagine it would work. Essentially just use a melee toggle key and then use the normal firing button to accomplish it. If I recall, that is actually how melee works in the lore as well. Just push the melee button and point and click. The mech does the rest of the work.

I like this idea. Would you disable weapons in the arm/leg until after the attack happens? Or, maybe make it to where the use of the weapon in the arm/leg would disengage the melee attack.

[A dog]

What if the arms were hanging down when not in use (like the Atlas in the MechWarrior 3015 trailer) and snapped up to firing position when the weapons in the arms were selected. btw why didnt that atlas use its arm mounted weapons?

[Orzorn]

Raeven, on 11 December 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

I like this idea. Would you disable weapons in the arm/leg until after the attack happens? Or, maybe make it to where the use of the weapon in the arm/leg would disengage the melee attack.

Because its a toggle, all you would have to do to switch back into weapon firing mode is to press the toggle key a second time. Until then, every time you pressed the fire button you would instead use a melee attack. Selecting what attack to use would be as simple as using the change group/next weapon buttons, so imagine the normal weapon screen, but its replaced with Punch, Kick, Melee Weapon, or whatever.

So, essentially, using melee attacks is the exact same system as using your normal weapons. You just switch back and forth with a toggle key.

A-dog, on 12 December 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

What if the arms were hanging down when not in use (like the Atlas in the MechWarrior 3015 trailer) and snapped up to firing position when the weapons in the arms were selected.

Yes, I would like to see that happen. A mech could even swing their arms like a person does.

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btw why didnt that atlas use its arm mounted weapons?

Probably time constraints.

Edited by Orzorn, 12 December 2011 - 10:46 AM.