23 replies to this topic

[Resist The Dawn]

I've seen several people mention this in other threads, though I did not see a thread about it, so I thought I'd make one. As has been stated several times, there will be no PVE at launch. And that's fine. They have said they are looking into it maybe down the road, which is a smart thing to do, just look at how much success the Co op vs AI in LoL brought. PVE like that is great for learning the game and trying out new mechs or champions or whatever.

Now The clans are going to invade after the game comes out, that has been clearly established. What is not clear, is how that is going to happen. We all know the clans have much better tech and what-not, so it would clearly be a large balancing problem if people could just switch over to the clans as soon as that happens, thereby getting much better stuff with no disadvantage. However, if they used the clan invasion to introduce their PVE mode, that would allow us to include the clans without breaking game balance. Everyone could then salvage or buy the clan tech as that slowly trickled in, and we would still be on equal footing. Additionally, players would not play the way the clan is supposed to fight, so if the clan were AI controlled, they could code them to behave the "proper" way.

I'm sure that fans of the clans would be upset that they cannot play as their favorite clan, But I really don't see a way to let people play as the clans without distrupting balance. What does the community think?

[Soulvoid]

I think, at least at first, that the Clan invasion will be predominantly PvE and that there will be a possibility to salvage mech chasis and clan weaponry if you are extremely lucky. This would allow for a gradual injection of clan weaponry and mechs into the game at a controllable rate.


For example: lets say a Clan ERPPC has 5 main components(A-E), and you were good/lucky enough to take out a Clan mech with an ERPPC and that the ERPPC was not completely destroyed. You could reasonably salvage a component (say component D) that is repairable with a little research (CBill sink). After being able to salvage all the parts, you could then do some engineering research/etc... (more CBill sink) to be able to assemble a clan ERPPC.

Mech Chasis would be on a much larger scale of the above.

This is only conjecture on my part but I think it could be one of the best ways to handle the Clan Invasion.

[Mantis]

Some people think yes, some people think no.

Sorry, But I don't see what else there is to say about it except more speculation?

[Hyperius]

Soulvoid, on 05 July 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

I think, at least at first, that the Clan invasion will be predominantly PvE and that there will be a possibility to salvage mech chasis and clan weaponry if you are extremely lucky. This would allow for a gradual injection of clan weaponry and mechs into the game at a controllable rate.


For example: lets say a Clan ERPPC has 5 main components(A-E), and you were good/lucky enough to take out a Clan mech with an ERPPC and that the ERPPC was not completely destroyed. You could reasonably salvage a component (say component D) that is repairable with a little research (CBill sink). After being able to salvage all the parts, you could then do some engineering research/etc... (more CBill sink) to be able to assemble a clan ERPPC.

Mech Chasis would be on a much larger scale of the above.

This is only conjecture on my part but I think it could be one of the best ways to handle the Clan Invasion.

I think the devs have said somewhere that there will be no salvage. If there was then this would be a pretty interesting idea though.

[Negoksa]

I think the clan invasions could be the perfect time to introduce PvE, and what you suggest with the salvage would be an interesting way to do it, however if it was a luck of the draw and you'd have to base your salvaging skills on chance, it would lead to a lot of angry gamers who want their instant gratification.

A lot of gamers don't like "luck loot" or having to spend long hours grinding something for the off-chance they'll get what they want. Sure many of us 'mech fans, myself included, would take what time we had for games and devoted it to obtaining that oh-so-sweet Timber Wolf, Thor, Mad Dog, or what have you, but a lot of people, both "hard-core" and "casual" would be really annoyed by a feature like that.

My motto is "Trust in the developers, for they are wise." They'll know how to do it and when the best time to implement it will be. We just gotta wait.

[ElcomeSoft]

Where is the Poll?

I vote "No".

I believe that they could make the early Clan invasions similar to the "Kill the courier" or "Kill the moderator" events in World of Tanks. Bring in the Dev Team and Forum Moderator teams in Clan mechs, slip them into random matches and dish out random Clan loot in some fashion after said match, possibly giving the killer of that mech (or preferably the one that lead to it's downfall, meaning a scout or the highest damage dealer) the salvage of that mech and potentially the chassis itself.

To avoid situations where one team has a Clan mech and the other team doesn't if a Clan mech is added to both sides and laid out as some sort of Clan Jade Falcon Vs. Clan Wolf scrap then we can ensure that if a player enters a game with a Clan mech then both sides have the opportunity to access Clan tech afterwards.

[PaintedWolf]

They have already begun talking about putting Zell features into the Clans. Why would this be PVE only? Do you know how many people will want to play Clans? Also why hype it so much to just give a PVE option. Also if released PVE people will DEMAND to play Clan even in the most handicapped of situations. So many reasons to keep the Clans PVP, like every other aspect of the game instead of PVE.

[Adrienne Vorton]

we plane and simple don´t know when, how, in which shape or IF ever the clan invasion will be done...

[William Petersen]

Mantis, on 05 July 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Some people think yes, some people think no.

Sorry, But I don't see what else there is to say about it except more speculation?

I do believe the developers have stated, point-blank, that there will be absolutely positively no "PvE" in this game. At all. Ever.

But I do not have a citation for such a statement. =(

[Arbhall Sommers]

I hadnt considered the idea of the clans being PVE. I would love to play the Clans personally but I have read quite a few threads that express the feeling of: that we not only should plan clans, but must play them as soon as possible. Not many I have seen have expressed much intent toward playing the clans as they are portrayed in the fiction.
I would love to play as clans yes. But i would love to grind out my own MadDog and Timberwolf, as the spoils of war much more. Bring the clans however, I dont care if they are PVE. In fact making them PVE only makes the most sense, only the truest warriors are even worthy to become clanners.
Guys like Kai Allard Liao, Victor Davion Stiener, Shin Yodama, and Takashi Kurita. Men whos entire lives focus was war and the newest martial art form. Mech combat!
Technically firearms and the rules of their use are a martial art/ science.
The ability to pilot a battlemech certainly qualifies as a martial art/ science to me, and only the most skilled and dedicated succede against the limitations imposed on them.
After Tukkayid, the IS pilots left after the battle had proved they were the cream of the crop, having weathered the storm of the invasion.
I would way rather be one of those guys, than the myopic warriors of the clans. They dont become truly fierce until they return 15 years later, fully ready to bring a proper fight. And wow the mechs after 3058! Some are really cool, and some are reskinned versions of star league/ post 4th war era mechs. But the IS omnis are all really sweet. I hope we at least get to see them at some point.

[MuffinTop]

[Resist The Dawn]

Negoksa, on 05 July 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I think the clan invasions could be the perfect time to introduce PvE, and what you suggest with the salvage would be an interesting way to do it, however if it was a luck of the draw and you'd have to base your salvaging skills on chance, it would lead to a lot of angry gamers who want their instant gratification.

A lot of gamers don't like "luck loot" or having to spend long hours grinding something for the off-chance they'll get what they want. Sure many of us 'mech fans, myself included, would take what time we had for games and devoted it to obtaining that oh-so-sweet Timber Wolf, Thor, Mad Dog, or what have you, but a lot of people, both "hard-core" and "casual" would be really annoyed by a feature like that.

My motto is "Trust in the developers, for they are wise." They'll know how to do it and when the best time to implement it will be. We just gotta wait.

I wasn't saying that that was the system they should use, it was just merely a rough example. And yes, I do trust in the devs, and I don't think that this thread is going to change anything, I think it's just interesting to discuss it.

PaintedWolf, on 05 July 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

They have already begun talking about putting Zell features into the Clans. Why would this be PVE only? Do you know how many people will want to play Clans? Also why hype it so much to just give a PVE option. Also if released PVE people will DEMAND to play Clan even in the most handicapped of situations. So many reasons to keep the Clans PVP, like every other aspect of the game instead of PVE.

I think you severely overestimate the percentage of the player base that are actually hardcore battletech fans. Most people playing this game won't even know what the clans or zellbriggen is, at least not unless the game has a story video or soemthing. The battletech fans are but a small and vocal minority of the overall player base. I don't see how they could enforce the rules of zellbriggen without making it awkward and stifling. You have played all the other mechwarrior games without being able to choose a side, did you complain then?

[Mu]

Highly doubt it. Any mech they make will almost certainly be playable by us in some way, they don't have time and manpower to spend on PVE content. Hell they have a lot of work ahead of them just to get all the currently-announced mechs in for release and that's months away.

Resist The Dawn, on 05 July 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

They have said they are looking into it maybe down the road

I really hope you didn't take that quote as him meaning they actually have plans for large scale PVE. I personally believe that at most we'll get some training maps with basic AI, which is closer to the implementation in LoL you mentioned. Or maybe some solo/co-op missions that could tie into the persistent territory battle, but this was a disaster in Armored Core 5 so they should look to that game as an example of what not to do.

[angryal]

I cant find any specific source material (my Google-fu is weak) so this is my theory aboot the Clan invasion;

'In MWO we use Mercenary units and the factions of the inner sphere to bring people together into fighting units that will compete for territory of the inner sphere' http://www.neogamr.n...hwarrior-online

Alright, so Im thinking Clans will be tweaks on the current model and be normal PVP for sure. ;
Clan mechs might end up as a specific class of mech so players will learn IS Lights, or learn Clan Lights as example. The competition for territory will start in the north of the inner sphere and work its way inwards like in cannon. This will make things a little different as it will be Houses vs Mercs vs Clans.
Zellbrigen will make up for the better technology of the Clans; The Clans will always be at a tonnage disadvantage as they bid against each other to challenge the IS forces.Two Inner Sphere Lances (8 Mechs) versus a Star of Clan forces (5 mechs) would be typical from the tabletop version.

Just my thinking of a possible implementation of the Clan offensive. Really looking forward to see how this plays out.

[TyR]

No, and I don't even know where this idea is coming from really. I have not seen anything posted from any PGI employees stating this is even a possibility. I think this, much like everyone saying there will only be 12 mechs announced, doomsday prophecies and psychic predictions, will just blow over without much thought as soon as information on the clans is announced. I don't really know how clans are planned to be implemented and they might not even know for sure either, but I doubt it will be PvE alone at least. Anything mentioned about PvE has been it is just a possibility later on, but we are pretty sure there are plans for clans to be in game. Just remember this is a computer game, not table top or a novel, and I am fairly certain PGI will be balancing mechs, weapons and/or numbers as required to make the battlefield fun for everyone on any side.

[Woska]

While I haven't seen anything regarding this idea, I like it. I've expressed the opinion before that a PvE game is important for the long term survival of the game. It allows structured missions, cooperative play, and the advancement of storylines.

I think having the clans be AI would be a great way to introduce both the Clans themselves, and a PvE game. Also, it would elminate any issues with players switching to Clans and the balance adjustments that would result.

Edited by Woska, 06 July 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[IceSerpent]

Woska, on 06 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

While I haven't seen anything regarding this idea, I like it. I've expressed the opinion before that a PvE game is important for the long term survival of the game. It allows structured missions, cooperative play, and the advancement of storylines.

I think having the clans be AI would be a great way to introduce both the Clans themselves, and a PvE game. Also, it would elminate any issues with players switching to Clans and the balance adjustments that would result.

Problem #1: PvE content is basically a 1-shot deal - everybody will get bored with it a few weeks after it's introduced, just like any other PvE game.

Problem #2: You have no slightest idea what it takes to create working AI, am I right? Let me give you a hint - it's a huge undertaking compared to balancing stuff.

[Stray Ion]

The Devs have yet to confirm/deny clan availability in accordance with prophecy.



Found this on a 4 year old photobucket account. I've been dying to use it.

[Hunson Abadeer]

I think zellbrigen could be done. Award players for defeating an enemy 'Mech without help much like FPS track "assists." If no one assists you, you receive a bonus. If you interfere in someone else's duel, you receive a penalty not unlike how FPS games penalize friendly fire. They would need to implement something along the lines of an enemy being highlighted differently once engaged.

As long as the bonuses and penalties were substantive but not overblown, it would encourage zellbrigen without forcing people to use it. If they wanted to strongly encourage it, just make the penalty affect something important.

[Resist The Dawn]

angryal, on 06 July 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

Alright, so Im thinking Clans will be tweaks on the current model and be normal PVP for sure. ;
Clan mechs might end up as a specific class of mech so players will learn IS Lights, or learn Clan Lights as example. The competition for territory will start in the north of the inner sphere and work its way inwards like in cannon. This will make things a little different as it will be Houses vs Mercs vs Clans.
Zellbrigen will make up for the better technology of the Clans; The Clans will always be at a tonnage disadvantage as they bid against each other to challenge the IS forces.Two Inner Sphere Lances (8 Mechs) versus a Star of Clan forces (5 mechs) would be typical from the tabletop version.

Just my thinking of a possible implementation of the Clan offensive. Really looking forward to see how this plays out.

Why would the mercs be their own separate faction? They get hired to fight the other houses/clans, that's what makes them mercenaries. Zellbriggen won't make up for the better tech, as you can't really enforce it in a fun way. besides, how can I 5 people have 1 on 1 duels with 8 people? I don't know about you, but I don't want to play on the team where my mech is weaker than my opponents no matter what I do, and I need the help of my teammates to bring down a mech of equivalent size.

Hunson Abadeer, on 06 July 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

I think zellbrigen could be done. Award players for defeating an enemy 'Mech without help much like FPS track "assists." If no one assists you, you receive a bonus. If you interfere in someone else's duel, you receive a penalty not unlike how FPS games penalize friendly fire. They would need to implement something along the lines of an enemy being highlighted differently once engaged.

As long as the bonuses and penalties were substantive but not overblown, it would encourage zellbrigen without forcing people to use it. If they wanted to strongly encourage it, just make the penalty affect something important.

The problem is, if they are not forcing people to use it, then the clans weakness is gone. If they do force people to use it, then it's an awkward and unrewarding experience. Imagine seeing a friendly about to die to the enemy they are dueling. You step in to save them, destroying the enemy mech. Then you get negative points for breaking zellbriggen. Doesn't sound very fun, or tactical.