241 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

Viges, on 13 August 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Don't worry, they'll balance it just in time



No p2w at all, just early access

I never said it was P2W.

[Scyther]

As it happens, I own Cheetahs, Firestarters, Ravens and Spiders (and other lights).

Definitely more durable than my Ravens and Jenners (and Adder, of course); somewhat more than my Spiders; *maybe* a little more than my Firestarters although I should play both alternately to get a feel for that.

I'm not that great of a light player, but then, most other people aren't either. So on a 'not so hot' Cheetah pilot, this is what kills me:

10% of my deaths are from rear CT hits... doesn't take much to kill you there if someone gets a shot at you.
20% from front CT.
I can only think of once or twice that both side torsos got taken out.
Fully 2/3 of deaths come from getting one leg blown off, then a hail of fire takes down something else critical.

Also, *quite* often, before I 'die', both arms get blown off and I am left with little or no firepower, at which point you can ignore the little Cheetah-on-a-stick.

So, pretty much as everyone else has pointed out - ignore the torso, blow off the arms if you get a chance, shoot a leg out, and you're good.

[Dimento Graven]

Well... I guess some people are tired of watching PGI constantly felate the whiney clan-tards, loudly vociferously attempting to make sure there is zero balance, so that they can maintain their EZ-mode...

[Lugh]

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Well... I guess some people are tired of watching PGI constantly felate the whiney clan-tards, loudly vociferously attempting to make sure there is zero balance, so that they can maintain their EZ-mode...

Ahahahahahahahahahaha perception bias at it's finest. There is far more whiney BS calling for nerfs when there shouldn't be, from the IS tryhards, mostly because they refuse to understand what the clan weaknesses are and exploit them.

[FupDup]

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Well... I guess some people are tired of watching PGI constantly felate the whiney clan-tards, loudly vociferously attempting to make sure there is zero balance, so that they can maintain their EZ-mode...

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Ahahahahahahahahahaha perception bias at it's finest. There is far more whiney BS calling for nerfs when there shouldn't be, from the IS tryhards, mostly because they refuse to understand what the clan weaknesses are and exploit them.

[Lugh]

Only what the IS needs to do is realize that they are far better suited to sub 600m brawls and build accordingly and PRESS PRESS PRESS the clan guys, instead of attempting to peek and poke, when they can ride the heat lightning so much better on so many platforms.

FupDup, on 13 August 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

That about sums it up.

Faster cycle times and faster burn times so you can trade better at your optimal ranges is something the IS overlooks about their lasers as well. (not to mention the much cooler costs)

[Dimento Graven]

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Ahahahahahahahahahaha perception bias at it's finest. There is far more whiney BS calling for nerfs when there shouldn't be, from the IS tryhards, mostly because they refuse to understand what the clan weaknesses are and exploit them.

Right back at you, blow hard.

"Clan weaknesses"...

Lessee, per weight class on average, and for the most part, they have:

More armor
Larger alpha
Faster
XL's that don't die with one torso loss
Longer reach
Higher DPS
Higher percentage of ECM carriers now

The "two" weaknesses that the IS could count on is most clan 'mechs have weaker legs than IS, and most clan pilots alpha like crazy and overheat in brawling situations.

You tell me, what am I missing here? What specific clan weaknesses are you thinking about? The lack of a tertiary color choice in camo?

[Gas Guzzler]

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Only what the IS needs to do is realize that they are far better suited to sub 600m brawls and build accordingly and PRESS PRESS PRESS the clan guys, instead of attempting to peek and poke, when they can ride the heat lightning so much better on so many platforms.


That about sums it up.

Faster cycle times and faster burn times so you can trade better at your optimal ranges is something the IS overlooks about their lasers as well. (not to mention the much cooler costs)

Its more like sub 400 m where IS mechs start to shine a bit, but Clan MPL or SPL boats take over at closer ranges. At this point, the "over-quirked" 5SS is the only mech that holds a candle to Clan brawl builds. Obviously a 500-600m poke build is going to be at a disadvantage here.

Cooler weapons are balanced by being heavier and/or not being able to physically fit as many DHS (ya know, 3 slot DHS)

IS has some areas with the advantage, but overall the good Clan mechs are better, that is why there is an overwhelming number of them in competition drops and very few IS mechs.

Some IS pilots are excessively vocal about it. I am okay with balance where it is, the good IS mechs do okay enough to make it not that one sided, but I do wish we had a good energy boat that traded well with the laser vomit heavies the Clans have, because I like that playstyle and I want to do it too! Otherwise though, Clan mechs do have a slight edge, where in the case of competitive drops, you want to take every edge you can get, which is why Clan mechs are more prevalent there.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 August 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Only what the IS needs to do is realize that they are far better suited to sub 600m brawls and build accordingly and PRESS PRESS PRESS the clan guys, instead of attempting to peek and poke, when they can ride the heat lightning so much better on so many platforms.

...

That about sums it up.

Faster cycle times and faster burn times so you can trade better at your optimal ranges is something the IS overlooks about their lasers as well. (not to mention the much cooler costs)

Yeah, in the mean time the IS has to survive that 2000meter to 600meter trek, hoping that there's enough cover between them and the clans to minimize the beating the clans longer range and in a lot of cases, harder hitting, weapons enjoy. Of course, let's also ignore the clan streak boat advantage at sub 600m range too...

[Lugh]

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Yeah, in the mean time the IS has to survive that 2000meter to 600meter trek, hoping that there's enough cover between them and the clans to minimize the beating the clans longer range and in a lot of cases, harder hitting, weapons enjoy. Of course, let's also ignore the clan streak boat advantage at sub 600m range too...

There is no hope. There is DO, move from covered position to covered position or DO NOT, and die.

[Dimento Graven]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 August 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

...

I am okay with balance where it is, the good IS mechs do okay enough to make it not that one sided, but I do wish we had a good energy boat that traded well with the laser vomit heavies the Clans have, because I like that playstyle and I want to do it too! Otherwise though, Clan mechs do have a slight edge, where in the case of competitive drops, you want to take every edge you can get, which is why Clan mechs are more prevalent there.

For CW I'd be ok with the current 'balance' too, IF, PGI would pull their heads from their rears and make any Clan v IS matches 10v12, OR, give the IS 15 extra tons for its drop deck when facing clans.

The numbers for the Turkayyid event made it plain:

Clans did LESS damage than IS and yet were able to destroy more 'mechs than the IS.

If you want to maintain a superior 'technological' edge to Clan fine, but you have to let the IS bring forth superior numbers to balance it.

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

There is no hope. There is DO, move from covered position to covered position or DO NOT, and die.

Whatever Yogurt, just because your lazy butt happens to be planted in a clan 'mech does not automagically grant you sooper leet skillz...

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Clans did LESS damage than IS and yet were able to destroy more 'mechs than the IS.

Are people still very much butt hurt over this particular data point? This just implies that Clan players are more efficient killers. That is all.

[Apnu]

Tahribator, on 13 August 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

Recommendations

My solution is simple: remove extra structure buffs or minimize them. The ACH already enjoys the perks of being fast, the ability to boat Clan lasers and having a full complement of JJs and ECM. I understand PGI wanted to ensure this thing excelled in as many areas as possible, but too much is too much. Remove the extra structure buffs and let its owner try to leverage its other advantages to do damage, rather than simply running in and face tanking entire teams. The extra structure bonuses seem to be copy pasted from the Mist Lynx but in comparison the MLX is such a trainwreck that even giving it Atlas armor wouldn't increase its popularity.

I agree, the internal structure buffs are too much for that speed. I get why they're on the Panther, that thing, for a light is slow. But the ACH is stupid fast and tanky. For balance it should be one or another: tanky or speed.

[Dimento Graven]

Mystere, on 13 August 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

Are people still very much butt hurt over this particular data point? This just implies that Clan players are more efficient killers. That is all.

OFFS... again, just because you planted your butt in a clan 'mech doesn't some how infer you greater skill than anyone else NOT in a clan 'mech.

[Sjorpha]

Removing all the structure and heat quirks seems like a good start, it's quite silly that a mech this good has quirks.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Ultimate in Pay to Win. I am surprised they didn't put it at the top of the package instead of the bottom. Would have made more money for PGI.

It will be nerfed as soon as its available for C-bills. PGI wants people who pay real money to feel it was well spent. 6 months of god mode should do it.

I am pissed I bought the Jenner IIC, I will probably never play it when the Cheeter is available. Should have ponied up the extra $10 for a real cheat mode.

Edited by MechWarrior5152251, 13 August 2015 - 08:55 AM.

[Big Bertha 00]

Well done OP. A fair assessment of an issue without turning it onto a flame war. I agree with your post. The AC routinely tanks down to <20%, mounts ECM, is fast, has JJ, and can mount enough weapons to be dangerous.

Think firestarter with ECM and extra leg armor.

[Dino Might]

Mystere, on 13 August 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Oh! Look! It's just another day with another "Nerf the Arctic Cheetah!" thread.

IS fans seem to be massively butthurt these days just because their Firestarters have met their match.

FS9s make me butthurt, too. I hate them both, but I hate the Cheeto a bit more because it is a bit better. Both of those mechs can burn in the fires of Mordor.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mystere, on 13 August 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

Are people still very much butt hurt over this particular data point? This just implies that Clan players are more efficient killers. That is all.

There are plenty of garbage Clan pilots. It is far more likely that this is related to IS side torso deaths with XL engines.

[FupDup]

MechWarrior5152251, on 13 August 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

I am pissed I bought the Jenner IIC, I will probably never play it when the Cheeter is available. Should have ponied up the extra $10 for a real cheat mode.

The Jenny IIC has the advantages of more weapon space, more high-mounted guns (6 instead of 2), and higher speed if you use a big engine. The Cheeta's advantages over it are ECM and not being a walking CT.

So, the Jenny IIC isn't going to be obsolete, it's easily going to rank among the top lights when it drops.