230 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

TwentyOne, on 16 August 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

PGI found macros OP enough to nerf AC2 with Ghost heat.

Actually, I think the macros came about because of the ghost heat on the 2's....

[Cyborne Elemental]

Cheating is cheating, there is no grey area as far as I'm concerned.

If you can't do it by yourself with your brain and two hands, then you shouldn't do it.

[Blue Boutique]

Mister D, on 16 August 2015 - 01:31 AM, said:

Cheating is cheating, there is no grey area as far as I'm concerned.

If you can't do it by yourself with your brain and two hands, then you shouldn't do it.

I use rudder pedals with my feet, does that make me a cheater?

[stjobe]

DjPush, on 15 August 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

Am I out of line with these feelings towards macros? I refuse to use them because I think it's fighting dirty. What do you guys think?

Out of line? No, you're entitled to your opinion, just like anyone else.

Is it a good opinion to have? Not really, since PGI do allow macros, so you're basically gimping yourself to some degree (be it a rather small degree in the case of macros) needlessly.

Not using macros is on the same level of "stupid" as not running meta-builds - i.e. it's not optimal, but it can be fun (and therefore worthwhile) nevertheless.

But using macros is not "fighting dirty", it's not "cheating", it is allowed by the terms of service and code of conduct and it doesn't give any real advantages. It's more convenience than anything else.

If you don't need them or want them, don't use them. But don't go calling those who do take advantage of the convenience they bring "dirty" or "cheaters", because they aren't.

[Druarc]

Poisoner, on 15 August 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

Macros for gaming have existed since the 90s. This is the only game I have played where people have cried foul about it.

I saw them in use in the 80'S

[JustEvil]

DjPush, on 15 August 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

Not like that sorry. I have made this build. Put them on chain fire in two groups like you say. No matter how fast I mash the mouse button. They never fire that fast.

You don't chain fire them. You put all UACs on firegroup 1, then you put three of UACs on separate fire groups, you fire them in even intervals and then you mash firegroup 1. If RNG gods will be merciful then you can bring rain of bullets on your enemies without ever jamming.

I don't know how macros works in this game and if they have any meaning regarding of jams, but you can fire your UACs like on the video without them.

[Sjorpha]

Chainfire macros is the only way to properly chainfire multiple autocannons, because the in game chainfire mechanic is crap.

Obviously the in game chainfire should be able to max out the fire rate of weapons in a group, it's silly that it doesn't, but chainfire macros is what we have as a workaround in the meantime.

It's not actually an advantage to group firing btw, but it sounds and looks cooler. What's the point of dakka builds if you can't actually dakka?

[AssaultPig]

for those who don't get it, the king crab pilot towards the end of the video is using a macro to achieve perfect non-jam RoF on his ultras.

Like justevil says, you can do this manually. Can you do it manually in the heat of battle while twisting/targeting/etc? I'm gonna say probably not.

Automation (as well as things like external overlays) is considered banworthy in a lot of other games if detected; that's kind of irrelevant to MWO though. PGI have said that macro use is allowed, so it is by definition not cheating.

[JustEvil]

AssaultPig, on 16 August 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

Like justevil says, you can do this manually. Can you do it manually in the heat of battle while twisting/targeting/etc? I'm gonna say probably not.

Well, personally, I can. But as I said, I'm on the mercy of RNG gods. If same thing applies to macros then fine, if not, then it is just going around of significant game mechanics.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Blue Boutique, on 16 August 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

I use rudder pedals with my feet, does that make me a cheater?

lol dude.

[AssaultPig]

JustEvil, on 16 August 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Well, personally, I can. But as I said, I'm on the mercy of RNG gods. If same thing applies to macros then fine, if not, then it is just going around of significant game mechanics.

the whole point of having a macro is to attain optimal non-jam RoF without having to actually do anything but hold down one button; you program the macro to fire at XYZ interval, hold down a button and it does.

You can fire at perfect intervals manually too, but in practice you probably **** it up and either jam or fire slower than you could. Macros eliminate that possibility.

[Mystere]

Mister D, on 16 August 2015 - 01:31 AM, said:

Cheating is cheating, there is no grey area as far as I'm concerned.

If you can't do it by yourself with your brain and two hands, then you shouldn't do it.

Considering my brains and two hands are very much capable of creating those macros incessant whiners whine incessantly about, then it is not cheating, especially because PGI allows them.


Seriously, are people actually incessantly and loudly whining about macros in the hope that PGI will buckle under the pressure? I see no other motive behind these periodic whine fests about macros.

Or are people just following the Goebbels principle?

Edited by Mystere, 16 August 2015 - 02:04 AM.

[Xetelian]

Macros should be cheating and I don't care how cool your 30 button mouse with 10 DPI settings is, at some point you're no longer just augmenting you're breaking.

I've seen a 6 UAC5 DWF with a crazy macro drill people to pieces while avoiding the worst of the ghost heat.

Not that and Gauss charge up insta firing isn't already a huge advantage.

[Mystere]

Blue Boutique, on 16 August 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

I use rudder pedals with my feet, does that make me a cheater?

No, but but using one of these just might be:




"Look Mama, no hands!" <little maniacal >

[Sjorpha]

AssaultPig, on 16 August 2015 - 01:52 AM, said:

for those who don't get it, the king crab pilot towards the end of the video is using a macro to achieve perfect non-jam RoF on his ultras.

Nope, it's just maxing out the RoF, not preventing jams. The only way to not jam is to not double tap at all. In fact you can hear the UACs jamming in that video.

If you can show me a macro that double taps in a way that avoids jamming I'm all ears, but I have never seen one and it's certainly not in that video.

Back when holding down the trigger would trigger double tap there was macros that timed the click to avoid double fire, and thus not jamming, those are no longer necessary since the in game fire now won't double tap automatically any more, so you never jam unless you want to double tap. But there has never been a way to both max out double tap fire and not jam.

Edited by Sjorpha, 16 August 2015 - 02:17 AM.

[Escef]

Well, Push, you're welcome to your opinion. But it is about as valid as "blue mechs aren't real mechs".

[Mystere]

Xetelian, on 16 August 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

Macros should be cheating and I don't care how cool your 30 button mouse with 10 DPI settings is, at some point you're no longer just augmenting you're breaking.

And tobacco should be classified as a banned substance ...

Xetelian, on 16 August 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

Not that and Gauss charge up insta firing isn't already a huge advantage.

Are you not even aware of the big disadvantage of using a macro to control gauss firing?

[jss78]

Well I dunno. I do use one on my quad-AC2 Jager, to set up steady chain fire. I don't feel the least bit bad about that, especially as looking at the numbers it's my worst-performing Jager anyway. Truth be told I don't even use the macro button so often, because most of the time I feel it's better to fire the AC's in sync to pinpoint the damage better. But I do have a childish appreciation for the sound it makes, and sometimes nothing else will do.

I guess one might argue that macros are simply a feature of the controller being used, and thus legit. It's not like I've installed anything beyond the mouse drivers to use one. A bit like we had auto-fire buttons in the joysticks all the way back in the 1980s.

Overall I think macros are a non-issue because (1) PGI explicitly alllows them and (2) the consensus appears to be that they are not "breaking the game" anyway.

Edit: apostrophe police

Edited by jss78, 16 August 2015 - 02:14 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Mystere, on 16 August 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

Considering my brains and two hands are very much capable of creating those macros incessant whiners whine incessantly about, then it is not cheating, especially because PGI allows them.


Seriously, are people actually incessantly and loudly whining about macros in the hope that PGI will buckle under the pressure? I see no other motive behind these periodic whine fests about macros.

Or are people just following the Goebbels principle?

No its still cheating because at that point the macro is doing all the work.

Only reason you would defend it is because you're using one?

Quit being lazy.

[stjobe]

Mister D, on 16 August 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

No its still cheating

You may want it to be, but since PGI says it's not your opinion on the matter is worthless.