232 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Heat scale guys:

That is pretty crazy, even at low heat you are starting to lose capability... I guess dual gauss warrior online would be fun.

[Heuvadoches]

Kira_Onime, on 17 August 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

Or how about this..... instead of nerfing lasers, how about making the other weapon systems better?
One of the reasons why people boat lasers is that they are reliable. Aim and click.

This ... ballistic hitreg on anything other than a guass is absolute scheidt.

Edited by Heuvadoches, 20 August 2015 - 05:07 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 August 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Heat scale guys:

That is pretty crazy, even at low heat you are starting to lose capability... I guess dual gauss warrior online would be fun.

And where have we seen that before?

Lemme think... Lemme think...

OH YEAH:

Table Top
Crescent Hawks Inception
MechWarrior
MechWarrior2
MechWarrior3
MechWarrior4

HOWEVER... A heat affects table is DEFINITIVELY more flexible and comprehensive a solution than adjusting ONE f'ing weapon at a time, IS version, the Clan version, oh no wait, now the IS version is too powerful, we need another adjustment, OH NO WAIT, the now the Clan version is too powerful...

Let's work on comprehensive solutions, not piecemeal ones.

A heat affects table that affects everyone and all builds would do that.

[IraqiWalker]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 August 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Heat scale guys:

That is pretty crazy, even at low heat you are starting to lose capability... I guess dual gauss warrior online would be fun.

Except we can adjust what those penalties are. PGI can easily change them, and better tweak them.

Those suggestions in the picture are just that: suggestions, and we can come up with all kinds of things to address all weapon types.

[CDLord HHGD]

IraqiWalker, on 20 August 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

If you use these sizes while adhering to stock mechs, you will NEVER be able to stop boating. Most boated weapons are 1-2 slots, thus you solve no issue. Other than when someone decides that those slots which are dedicated to UAC5s, can't all be dumped for the sake of putting in one big UAC 20, an arguably far less meta set up.

In the case of a Jagermech, can you make me a build with your sized hardpoints that invalidates the 3xUAC5 set up, while not invalidating the 2xAC 20 set up?

The problem here is that you're the one that needs to present a layout that will adhere to stock mechs, WITHOUT allowing meta set ups, which is nigh on impossible. That much I can confirm. If you stick to stock layouts, congratulations, you won't stop boating, you won't stop alpha strikes, and you certainly won't curtail damage output.

Again: Only builds that will be affected by this are ones that use the larger ballistic weapons.

You're the one making the claim that this system will actually solve issues (in a very indirect, and roundabout way, compared to direct solutions to the problems), and yet no evidence has been presented to support the claim. The burden of proof lies with you, and those that support this system.

Make me a practical layout for a variant, that will do what you claim the system will do.

I'm the one saying it will fail, and if you are correct and I don't understand your system, then I need a working example, that I can critique/fine tune. So far, all you have is a hypothesis, display proof, and submit it for review.



This would curtail the "alpha often" mentality a lot more than sized hardpoints. At least it will actually stop people from using alpha strikes often, instead of still letting them alpha strike 24/7, just for 10 points of damage less (10 points I hardly doubt the sized hardpoints system would actually incur).


Look, competitive set ups are the easy mode of the game. In fact, LRMs require a lot more skills to use than that.

Specifically speaking, we need actual map awareness, of both the locations of enemies, and teammates, but also the geographical layout of the map. I need to know more than what's in front of me because direct fire weapons are akin to combat with blinders on. You need no real awareness other than what's in front of you, and some rudimentary awareness of your surroundings.

We can get into this in greater detail later.

LRMs are not in a good place yes, but who here remembers when they were the easy mode? Every one cried endless tears until they got a 5 second heads up whenever LRMs are incoming, and projectiles slower than AC 20 bullets, and STILL we got LRM complaint threads.

I only had 1 LRM boat, but at least I'm honest. Easy mode is direct fire weapons.

And I am on record as saying Dimento's heat scale is a good idea! I still don't see any messages waiting for me though. I'll eat crow if proven wrong, but the burden of proof is on you. I made my statement and gave examples of why it's a good thing. Give me a mech with a loadout that isn't meta and that is ruined by my interpretation of sized hardpoints.

Since I do not meta, all my loadouts work well and fit into my theory so it's better for you to give me a mech or two to review.

Edited by cdlord, 21 August 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[Tuefel Hunden]

I really wish Clan UACs worked. I have tried them repeatedly and they seem like such a waste. I don't like LRM boating. And frankly, LRMs kinda suck these days. SRMs are very situational.

Kinda leaves me with energy weapons or gauss.

[Dimento Graven]

Tuefel Hunden, on 21 August 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

I really wish Clan UACs worked. I have tried them repeatedly and they seem like such a waste. I don't like LRM boating. And frankly, LRMs kinda suck these days. SRMs are very situational.

Kinda leaves me with energy weapons or gauss.

Every time, EV-E-REEE TIME, I read a clanner whining about his AC's, I laugh my ass off...

[IraqiWalker]

cdlord, on 21 August 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

And I am on record as saying Dimento's heat scale is a good idea! I still don't see any messages waiting for me though. I'll eat crow if proven wrong, but the burden of proof is on you. I made my statement and gave examples of why it's a good thing. Give me a mech with a loadout that isn't meta and that is ruined by my interpretation of sized hardpoints.

Since I do not meta, all my loadouts work well and fit into my theory so it's better for you to give me a mech or two to review.

The jager mech, being able to use 2xAC 20s on all variants, without being able to use the 3xUAC5 set up. Simple as that.If you give it enough slots to use the AC 20s, it has more than enough slots to use the UAC5s.

Tuefel Hunden, on 21 August 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

I really wish Clan UACs worked. I have tried them repeatedly and they seem like such a waste. I don't like LRM boating. And frankly, LRMs kinda suck these days. SRMs are very situational.

Kinda leaves me with energy weapons or gauss.

Stop using them at 1200 meters, and they're fine. Clan ballistics are king at short, and medium range engagements.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 21 August 2015 - 09:43 PM.

[1Grimbane]

I wubvomit with pride

[Corrado]

cdlord, on 17 August 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

No specific mechs, no specific faction, no specific side, no specific laser, no specific quirk; as it should be.

Lasers across the board need substantial nerfs.

When I see 90% of mechs in matches run laserboats, there's something wrong. Had the honor of getting stomped by a well known comp group and guess what, they were all running laserboats. Nary a missile or AC among them.

And a nerf doesn't even have to apply to a laser, could be a general heat rescale.

#bringthehatred

if pug teams would start pushing after the enemy laservomits shot 2 salvos already, those AC or SRM would kick the butt off laservomits really quick.

the fact is pug games often revolves around poking, silly laserpaining alpha, reverse, cool, rinse and repeat.

at least in therma's mordor you can't push with 100% laserspray mechs. you need someone opening with dakkas. different story in manifold or frozen city tho.

[CDLord HHGD]

Laservomit insane again tonight. I again call for more nerfs to bring down the amount of laser vomit and bring variety back to MWO!

[bad arcade kitty]

honestly i dont want laser nerfs... i would prefer some missile and ballistic buffs
it wouldnt increase ttk since laser builds would still be superior but it would increase the amount of viable builds

[Mycrus]

Kira_Onime, on 17 August 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

Or how about this..... instead of nerfing lasers, how about making the other weapon systems better?
One of the reasons why people boat lasers is that they are reliable. Aim and click.

Then ttk will even be shorter...