80 replies to this topic

[Bob Jenkins]

nehebkau, on 27 August 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

I always thought that there should be some type of count down timer for the value (cbills and loyalty pts) of a victory (for attackers) and a count-up timer for the value of a successful defense. You would have to try to figure out a way to have it limit just gen-rushing the objectives in the first minute and defenders just hiding in the spawn on defense none the less -- but some timer that would provide more cbills and loyalty for having done the objectives in a timely matter. I'm sure the brain-trust here could figure out some decent way to do that.

That is not a bad idea, except, i like making cbills/loyalty points myself even if my team loses horribly. It's why I play CW, always make money every match, feast or famine.

[Necromantion]

In EVERY other game if your team plays awfully you get stomped. Why should MWO be different? Most games when one team gets rolled a single dropship alpha or two does more damage than most of the players.

CW needs gating to be able to access so garbage players cant play in it.

[Chef Kerensky]

Andan, on 20 August 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

They just need to make the in game objectives worth more than the killing/assisting in killing of mechs. This pertains to both CW and group/solo drops.

This game rewards the kill. This is the major flaw in any other game mode in this game. No matter what modes they implement or create it all boils down to C-Bill/XP rewards. The majority of us can agree that the rewards promote the Skirmish gameplay in any gamemode.

Until they reward players more for objectives, in those objective based modes, than of course the player will ignore them.

They really don't. Shooting robots is the fun part of the game, shooting generators is not. If this were Living Legends or something where there's something fun and engaging about accomplishing a larger goal I'd agree with you but as it stands there is nothing interesting or fun about taking part in the actual objectives of CW.

The smart decision would be to focus on what works - shooting robots with lasers. If you really, really need drop protection that doesn't require the losing team to put forward any effort to protect their players, provide a safe location for spawning teams to regroup and kick them out into the open if they stay there for more than 15 seconds.

Edited by Chef Kerensky, 04 September 2015 - 08:57 AM.

[Tuefel Hunden]

The solution is to have multiple drop zones. Center the objective in the map. If there are enemy mechs within shooting distance of the LZ, the dropship changes to an alternate site, whilst strafing the stuffing out of the enemy mechs of course.

Edited by Tuefel Hunden, 04 September 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[DarklightCA]

Andan, on 20 August 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

They just need to make the in game objectives worth more than the killing/assisting in killing of mechs. This pertains to both CW and group/solo drops.

This game rewards the kill. This is the major flaw in any other game mode in this game. No matter what modes they implement or create it all boils down to C-Bill/XP rewards. The majority of us can agree that the rewards promote the Skirmish gameplay in any gamemode.

Until they reward players more for objectives, in those objective based modes, than of course the player will ignore them.

Because nobody wants to wait 20 minutes to get a match just so teams can gen rush for the auto win because it gives more points then actually playing the game aka shooting mechs. This is a Mech shooter game, it should reward more for getting kills.

[Javin]

l)arklight, on 05 September 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

Because nobody wants to wait 20 minutes to get a match just so teams can gen rush for the auto win because it gives more points then actually playing the game aka shooting mechs. This is a Mech shooter game, it should reward more for getting kills.

You have not been playing much if you think a quick win gets more points than killing mechs. A gen rush gets you next to no points now. Grinding mechs is the only way to get points in CW now.

[DarklightCA]

Javin, on 05 September 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

You have not been playing much if you think a quick win gets more points than killing mechs. A gen rush gets you next to no points now. Grinding mechs is the only way to get points in CW now.

Do you even read? I was replying to a guy who wanted Objectives to earn more money than Killing mechs. Maybe read what I am replying to and not just my comment next time?

[Ghogiel]

Reinforcing the spawn locations encourages camping. Just camp there and pull back some dam/kills/ run the clock out. Of course the other thing that will happen is some will get bored and go die alone instead of huddling behind invincible defenses. Not sure how this is more fun for newbs.

[Mr Blonde]

Richter Kerensky, on 17 August 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

If you're stlil getting spawncamped in a game with the ridiculous new dropship lasers and protected spawn locations, you deserve to lose.

I dunno, dropships are pretty strong...at least they aren't dropping in Overlords. It would be pretty funny if you could attack the dropships and shoot them down, with the raging player inside going down with it.

[Richter Kerensky]

Dropships being strong supports my point?

[MischiefSC]

The problem is that you make map positions strong you make them the best place to be. Making spawns even better fortified just makes spawn camping an actual requirement, as the defenders would just stay there.

I know it sucks to get rolled by a better team. Losing is not as fun as winning. The solution to that is not "the game should protect me from better players by handwavium". The answer is to play better.

There is a big rebalance in the works that will, hopefully, balance IS and Clans and make way more mechs competitive. Until that happens though, bring good mechs. Bringing bad mechs/builds is a big part of it. Second, play with a plan that is realistic to the situation. If the other team is better use the map/objectives to balance that out. Defending against a coordinated Clan team? Set up your defenses in cover. Don't poke - they will win poke fights at long range. Stay in cover, force them to crest hills or round corners into you, short range and narrow lanes of fire. Attacking? Again, don't snipe/poke. That favors coordination and accuracy. Stay low and in cover, push into them and send sacrifices to tie them up while the rest clear objectives.

The only solution is to bring better gear and learn to play better. The solution is not to try and get PGI to change the game to make you more likely to win against people who bring better gear or play better than you. Everyone loses, figure out why you lost and do better next time. That is the best "update".

[Richter Kerensky]

On another note, the fact that the best tactic on hold territory is to literally never leave your spawn is inexcusable. Hellebore hold territory is the worst offender probably, but it's pretty much always the best move when defending a counter-attack, the major downside being it is insanely boring to just sit there.

This could easily be combated by making Omega more important (say, how about the attackers win a tie if Omega is destroyed so that the defenders have a reason to leave spawn in that game mode at all?!) but PGI hasn't listened about this before and I doubt they will now.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 21 September 2015 - 12:20 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Boreal. If you're IS and you're not camping that hill you can walk up at spawn with a BLR 1S you're throwing free points away. One of the guys in top 10 cw leaderboard does just that.

I get the need to protect spawns. I agree with the idea. However they should not be the best place to hide out the match.

[Biclor Moban]

Instead of having the spawn point a safe area with hills and 1, 2 or 3 entry points how about we put the cannon in a safe area?

It would be like the HPG manifold or Terra Therma.

Make only one point on the Orbital Cannon destroyable like a power coupler or something. I mean really if you where gonna take this gun you want to use it again with fairly little repair. rather than build one of your own. besides.

I thought that ECM would be good to have on the orbital cannon but maybe what it needs is to be a mech location transmitter like our mech so when an enomy is lets say within a 200 meter range of it it would act just like a mechs sensos work and relay tht info to the group.

Those are thoughts.

[AlphaToaster]

Richter Kerensky, on 21 September 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

On another note, the fact that the best tactic on hold territory is to literally never leave your spawn is inexcusable.

I have never seen this work for the team camping. Not once. But if this is the overall consensus of Team Skittles, then it's no wonder they keep doing it and losing.

To be fair, I've never seen a premade group use this against a skittles team either.

I've seen it tried many, many, times against the team I happen to be on, but never successful. Not even close.

[MischiefSC]

AlphaToaster, on 22 September 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

I have never seen this work for the team camping. Not once. But if this is the overall consensus of Team Skittles, then it's no wonder they keep doing it and losing.

To be fair, I've never seen a premade group use this against a skittles team either.

I've seen it tried many, many, times against the team I happen to be on, but never successful. Not even close.

Probably for the same reason most pug teams fail on defense. They poke. Stay back, make the other team crest. If you walk up to the edge you'll walk into a firing line. The point is make them walk into yours.

Boreal for example. Even a moderate pug team can mop the floor with a good premade. Stay in base, set up overlapping field of fire for the side the attackers are coming. Make sure you have cover on the side facing the gates. Most Clan mechs have mid hardpoints, you can shoot them as they crest, twist while they shoot you then shoot them again as they fade. Keep narrow lanes of fire and short to mid range and you eliminate the skill/focused fire advantage.

They'll have to waste time repositioning repeatedly and you can run down the clock on them. Only real problem is a rush. With the ACH being stupid op still there isn't a viable defense against a Clan light rush now. It's like spiders with FS9 firepower and heavy mech leg armor, you can't burn them down fast enough if you're not comp tier accurate.

The reason defense tends to fail is the urge to poke. You get a team to set up firing lines to get all 12 with a lane and wait for the other team to crest and it's a slaughter. Had a 48 to 9 game doing that last night and we were on attack. Moved in took a solid position set up lanes and let the fish fling themselves into the barrel. It was awkward it was such a slaughter.

[AlphaToaster]

MischiefSC, on 22 September 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

Probably for the same reason most pug teams fail on defense. They poke. Stay back, make the other team crest. If you walk up to the edge you'll walk into a firing line. The point is make them walk into yours.

Boreal for example. Even a moderate pug team can mop the floor with a good premade. Stay in base, set up overlapping field of fire for the side the attackers are coming. Make sure you have cover on the side facing the gates. Most Clan mechs have mid hardpoints, you can shoot them as they crest, twist while they shoot you then shoot them again as they fade. Keep narrow lanes of fire and short to mid range and you eliminate the skill/focused fire advantage.

They'll have to waste time repositioning repeatedly and you can run down the clock on them. Only real problem is a rush. With the ACH being stupid op still there isn't a viable defense against a Clan light rush now. It's like spiders with FS9 firepower and heavy mech leg armor, you can't burn them down fast enough if you're not comp tier accurate.

The reason defense tends to fail is the urge to poke. You get a team to set up firing lines to get all 12 with a lane and wait for the other team to crest and it's a slaughter. Had a 48 to 9 game doing that last night and we were on attack. Moved in took a solid position set up lanes and let the fish fling themselves into the barrel. It was awkward it was such a slaughter.

Right, that's an actual defense of pugs vs a premade. I've seen that game go down as a win for the pugs more than once. That is quite the opposite of camping in the spawn.

The community at large that plays CW should discourage spawn camping as a viable tactic at all costs, or we risk the poor pugs who believe that crap end up on our teams one day.

[MischiefSC]

AlphaToaster, on 22 September 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Right, that's an actual defense of pugs vs a premade. I've seen that game go down as a win for the pugs more than once. That is quite the opposite of camping in the spawn.

The community at large that plays CW should discourage spawn camping as a viable tactic at all costs, or we risk the poor pugs who believe that crap end up on our teams one day.

You can camp your spawn - just do it back from the edge and don't poke. It's a pretty cheesy but easy way to win as pugs vs premade.

You just got to beat the poke out of your puggles.

[Richter Kerensky]

AlphaToaster, on 22 September 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

I have never seen this work for the team camping. Not once. But if this is the overall consensus of Team Skittles, then it's no wonder they keep doing it and losing.

To be fair, I've never seen a premade group use this against a skittles team either.

I've seen it tried many, many, times against the team I happen to be on, but never successful. Not even close.

Team Skittles usually only attempts this once they're already down a wave or two and very angry that they're getting their teeth kicked in and want The Dropship God to aid them in blowing up your first wave with infinity lasers that can't miss in the mistaken belief that this will stem the bleeding when they're all piloting 3 AC/2 Jenners and drop their Assault mech last.

An organized campout in the defenders' spawn on Canyon is both extremely boring and nigh unbeatable.

[Karl Marlow]

Well good grief.All good camping trips should include roasting marshmallows

Edited by ThomasMarik, 22 September 2015 - 11:10 PM.