384 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

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[JoJoxy]

I don't get why people think having their elo/psr score lowered is a punishment. If anything it makes your next game a bit easier.

[50 50]

Great patch.
Particularly looking forward to trying out the new map and enjoying all the goodies there. Looks awesome.

The new skill ranking system looks like a great idea.
There was mention of the various activations which provide a match score being more relevant and including more options.
This to me sounds like there has been some adjustments and balancing made to these activations which will encourage various roles.

@Deathlike
Your post about being an effective light pilot, good use of a UAV, being able to scout properly has just proved the point about why this system can work and is counter to your other posts about it just being about the damage.
A top class scout should be marked up into a higher tier just as much as a top class brawler or sniper should be.

Lets see how it all fits together.

@Alex
I am curious about how it fits together when players group up. Will a combined average for the group be used for the match maker or something like that?

Re the ability to see the tier, I think this is a good idea to be visible publically but I would suggest it as an extra little icon against pilot names in games in both the social panel and in the team lists.
Using the rank insignias from the game according to currently aligned faction would be nice.

[Void Angel]

It's because people at lower Elos are more likely to engage in counterproductive behaviors, or be unaware and let down the team. It'll all work out in the end, though.

[Deathlike]

Void Angel, on 17 August 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

We use the action triggers in a weighted formula that employs multipliers to place greater emphasis on certain actions over others.The weighted formula and action triggers will not be released publicly.

Sure, and I know it can be tweaked, but even then, the game has emphasized a lot of the more common triggers (and types of play), so there will be things that will certainly skew this.

Like, if you had decided to skew the scoring based on favoring spotting for LRMs, well, that'll be great until you actually play against people that won't allow you to get that kind of spotting in the first place.

I'm not saying there's going to be a perfect system... I'm saying that the more self-evident things that are derived from Match Score may not actually be correct or appropriate for the thing you're attempting to measure.

50 50, on 17 August 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

@Deathlike
Your post about being an effective light pilot, good use of a UAV, being able to scout properly has just proved the point about why this system can work and is counter to your other posts about it just being about the damage.
A top class scout should be marked up into a higher tier just as much as a top class brawler or sniper should be.

Lets see how it all fits together.

Top class scouts DO NOT GET REWARDED. They get PUNISHED by higher Elo players that will core/leg you efficiently.

Piloting a Light at higher Elos levels of play requires you to play it a certain way.. mostly in the way that favors killing things as that is the current game mechanic.

You get penalized for "not excelling" with the current game mechanics.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 August 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

50 50, on 17 August 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

@Deathlike
Your post about being an effective light pilot, good use of a UAV, being able to scout properly has just proved the point about why this system can work and is counter to your other posts about it just being about the damage.
A top class scout should be marked up into a higher tier just as much as a top class brawler or sniper should be.

you missed the part about the possibility to die in an instant

heavies are both easier and more reliable to get a good score, and we play score warrior online now

imo they should at least cancel the score punishment for light chassis and judge them by the match result only

[Wildstreak]

So is Frozen City the next map for a pass since it displays time of day at match start?

[Wintersdark]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

you missed the part about the possibility to die in an instant

heavies are both easier and more reliable to get a good score, and we play score warrior online now

imo they should at least cancel the score punishment for light chassis and judge them by the match result only

Cancel the score punishment? Again, they specifically state that there are non damage reward items for scouting and support.

While being concerned about them implementing that well is absolutely valid, you're really going off on an absurd stretch to claim the system is punishing lights because you're certain it'll do exactly the opposite of what they say it'll do.

[bad arcade kitty]

scouting (and also early capping) is very dangerous because you may die very fast not earning these new fabulous hidden score points for scouting, and if you risked for your team and died early and your team wins you will get nothing

[Jeffrey Wilder]

oh man, really looking forward to the Pilot Skill Rating system (PSR). Hopefully it works better than just ELO.

Does that mean our original ELO will be wiped?

Edited by Jeffrey Wilder, 17 August 2015 - 04:44 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

there is nothing better than the pure elo... mm can be improved, visible rating tiers can be improved too, but not elo

they just had to make solo and group elo separate... well, it's pgi, i bet their designers never even played in the proper elo based games like lol/dota

[Wintersdark]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 17 August 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

oh man, really looking forward to the Pilot Skill Rating system (PSR). Hopefully it works better than just ELO.

Does that mean our original ELO will be wiped?

Elo (it's not an acronym) won't exist in MWO anymore. At all.

[Kilo 40]

Deathlike, on 17 August 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

It's going to hurt the LRM users

No it's not. It's going to hurt bad players who think they are good, regardless of if they use LRMs or lasers or whatever.

I'm not saying I'm "good", but I get high score, or close to high score, on my teams a good majority of the time, and I always use LRMs.

[Ano]

This is all exciting stuff.

I'm a little hesitant about making MM ranks publicly viewable; my concern is that I don't see a lot of good uses for that information but I can think of a few bad uses (mostly in interactions of the "I am tier 2, you are tier 3 so therefore I must be right/your opinion is irrelevant, scrub" variety). Whatever is decided on re: the publishing of individuals' rank, I think keeping it hidden initially while the system is fine-tuned is eminently sensible.

Regarding "tier 1 won't play with tier 4 or 5": Is there any bracketing for the other tiers, or is it effectively two matchmaking groups:

A: tier 1 players plus as many tier 2 and tier 3 players as are required to populate the match
B: tier 4 and 5 players plus tier 2 and tier 3 players not playing in "tier 1" matches?

If that's the case, being a tier three player could be interesting, depending on time of day etc. Also, would it be first-come first-served, or would one group get priority over the other?

[Wintersdark]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

scouting (and also early capping) is very dangerous because you may die very fast not earning these new fabulous hidden score points for scouting, and if you risked for your team and died early and your team wins you will get nothing

You don't "get something" either way - this system has nothing to do with rewards. If you died early without accomplishing anything your ranking shouldn't increase.

[OznerpaG]

i assumed ELO 'didn't work' because there was rarely enough players in the queue to properly flesh out a balanced game without having me wait more than a few minutes for a match

is this 'new ELO' matchmaker going to change that? am i just going to wait longer for matches now that the MM is no longer allowed to match me with beginners?

i'd really rather not play with beginners, but i don't want to have CW-length waits for matches either

Edited by JagdFlanker, 17 August 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Hooray! New ranking system and new (well, revamped at least!) map!!!!

Personally, I really hope PGI makes our personal scores available to us, at least privately if not publicly. I'd like to know where I rate!

[Wintersdark]

JagdFlanker, on 17 August 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

i assumed ELO 'didn't work' because there was rarely enough players in the queue to properly flesh out a balanced game without having me wait more than a few minutes for a match

is this 'new ELO' matchmaker going to change that? am i just going to wait longer for matches now that the MM is no longer allowed to match me with beginners?

i'd really rather not play with beginners, but i don't want to have CW-length waits for matches either

A lot of the time, the Matchmaker worked fine. Most of the time, in fact - for the solo queue anyways. Karl posted metrics a few times, and something like 90% of matches were within under 100 points spread. Given Elo ranges from 0 through to... what, 2800? That's basically 28 buckets. Now there'll be 5. This new system, if anything, has much wider ranges than the previous system.

So often, though, people attributed any stomp to the matchmaker, and that's just silly. The whole game design contributes to matches snowballing, regardless of relative player skill.

Edited by Wintersdark, 17 August 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[Peiper]

No ECM changes???

[Ano]

Peiper, on 17 August 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

No ECM changes???

Given that they're also working on the top-to-bottom balance pass, it might be a fair assumption that ECM changes will release with the balance changes.

That makes sense to me: a retooled ECM that works in the context of whatever changes they're making to quirks/info warfare/balance etc might not work in the current game.

Edited by Ano, 17 August 2015 - 05:42 PM.