384 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Welcome to PSR Hell will be the new saying.

I want to be happy about this but it really seems to fix nothing.

If you're a bad pilot (Tier 5) you'll never face an ace (Tier 1), but if your an ace versing an average team (Tier 3), prepare to get bad pilots.

So it doesn't address the issue of why I'd rather not play. I'm still not in support of a MM that averages the team out.

[xengk]

Will there be a PSR tier for different weight class?
I do terribly in lights but is most proficient in mediums.

[Rogue Jedi]

I would like to see my tier, and would like the option to make it public, I suspect I would be tier 3 but am curious to find out if I am correct,
I would not have a problem with other people seeing my tier but I understand that others may, so it needs to be optional to display your tier.

it would also be great to be able to say something along the lines of "please check your skill level" to some of those "elite" players who are never at fault for dying within a minute of match start because "the team failed to back them up" in their head on assault against an enemy firing line in a Mech most of the team cannot keep up with

[Nick86]

So, your tier will drop amazingly if you're on a period of grinding out bullsh!t un-levelled mechs against good enemy players as it is now, then when your tier is low enough, you can wreck a$$... Good times a'comin..!

Trying to hit Tier 5 right now..


HOW ABOUT WE FIX THE CBILL/XP REWARD SYSTEM TOO??

Edited by Nick86, 18 August 2015 - 01:05 AM.

[PitchBlackYeti]

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

A Tier 1 player will never play against a Tier 4 or Tier 5 player.
New players are automatically seeded into the mid-to-high range of Tier 4.

I hope that tier 5=lowest I remember something about old ELO putting new guys a little bit above average, that was kinda unfair.

Edited by PitchBlackYeti, 18 August 2015 - 01:09 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Marc von der Heide, on 18 August 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

Don t expect too much from the ELO change.

i don't expect much good from the introducing of the tiers but i expect something pretty bad from their new rating system

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 18 August 2015 - 01:09 AM.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

As a replacement for the original Elo-based rating and matching system, the new Pilot Skill Rating system releasing in this patch will provide more accurate and diverse skill ratings to better reflect your individual level of performance match-to-match. Whereas your original Elo scores were determined solely by your win/loss rate in a given weight class, the new PSR system is primarily influenced by your Match Score. In other words, any player action in the game that triggers a C-Bill or XP reward now applies to this new scoring system.

I think that is a great idea in general - but I also think that it needs a good amount of fine tuning in the longer run. I don't expect it to work perfectly from the get-go.

In the future, you might want to introduce a mod-factor that weights the BV of a mech with the Match Score. You do not really expect a Spider to perform like a Timberwolf, right?

Now to the details:

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Pilot Skill Rating - The Elo Replacement

The purpose of the new Pilot Skill Rating (PSR) system is to make your pilot skill values based more on individual performance, rather than the binary win or loss outcome of a match. This new PSR system will effectively remove the current Elo system from the game and the matchmaker.

The best way to explain how the PSR system works and why it is being implemented is to first explain the shortcomings of the Elo system in relation to its use for MechWarrior Online.

Elo was originally developed for measuring the relative skill levels of competitive chess players, but over time its use has expanded to an array of other competitive games from football to collectable card games. A players’ Elo score is derived from their win/loss rate, and is compared against their opponents' Elo score to determine which of the two scores should rise and which should fall after the match has reached a conclusion.
Therein lies the critical failure point when using the Elo scoring system for MWO.
MWO is not a 1v1 game. It is, currently, a 12v12 team-based game. Beyond your own performance, the outcome of a match is fundamentally reliant on the performance of your teammates. Their level of skill or experience would have a significant impact on determining whether your Elo would rise or fall after a match had concluded.
One of the impacts of this was that organized and effective teams could potentially carry a player to an Elo score well beyond what may befit their actual skill level. In this way and others, the Elo system caused all sorts of issues with the matchmaker in both solo and group queues, and would never accurately reflect how a player may perform on a personal basis.

Good approach - really. I like it. Maybe not perfect, but the direction is good. Please don't forget to look further into the action-points of mechs. You can give out certain action-rewards for certain chassis, like hidden scouting for lights that are equipped with ECM, friendly-ecm cover if you protect your team, group flanking, look more into the kill-assist metric (which is in my opinion a little biased - "kill most damage dealt" may not really reflect what you really did, like taking out the most dangerous weapon of a mech. You can also include the performance of a mech to survive. If you stay alive with 10% health left its much more worth than to be on critical levels (red CT) with 80% of health. You should try to include not only offensive based rewards, but also defensive based ones, like if someone is twisting, gets into cover before LRMs hit you, the ability to survive surrounded by enemy mechs etc.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

To correct this problem, we have implemented a new scoring system based primarily on your individual performance within a match.

Any player action in the game that triggers a C-Bill or XP reward (such as kills, assists, or damage done) now applies to this scoring system. Skill rating in MWO is no longer determined solely by your win/loss rate. The Match Score displayed at the End of Round screen is now the primary metric that will determine a player’s skill rating.

You can add a lot of support for your team without having a high match-score, like scouting. Certain mechs can only scout or die like a fly (for example: Commando), while other Scouts have the ability to both scout AND do damage. This is why I want to see a modification of the Match Score with the BV of a mech.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

We use the action triggers in a weighted formula that employs multipliers to place greater emphasis on certain actions over others. We have also added more action triggers to the tracking system to take into account other types of gameplay aside from just kills and damage done. Actions such as flanking an enemy, using a UAV to spot targets, or using TAG/NARC/BAP to mark targets, are now all part of this formula. These and other actions are weighted in such a way that promotes effective team play.

Good, but the problem is, that the "support" side is rather thin compared to the head-on stuff like dealing damage and killing stuff right now. ECM, UAV and spotting comes to mind, but getting the enemy in the back or forcing an assault to turn around because your Light mech is in his back... that is real support. We currently don't have (to my knowledge) action triggers that find out that kind of stuff, its merely 'flanking' and thats it. It does not reflect the real value that action did for your team. Please have a look into that.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Essentially, the weighting system and new action triggers allow for a player who may excel in a scouting or support role to be just as well-rated as a player who excels at securing kills and dealing heavy damage.

"Securing" kills might sound a little misleading. Effective killing is something else than kill stealing. Maybe you have a method to separate those two from each other? Other than that: Good going!

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

If a players' team wins, and the player did well during the match (achieving a high Match Score), the player will rise in skill rating.

Good!

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

If a players' team wins, but the player did not perform well (achieving a low Match Score), the player will not move in terms of skill rating.

Not so good! You team will carry you and the bias will continue. Also: If you have bad players in your team and you carry them, you don't want to have them in your team next round because they are so bad. Winning/Losing should have an influence, but I also think that dealing the most damage (or the best 3 if they do >300 dmg) should be rewarded more, even if they lose.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

If a players' team loses, but the player does exceptionally well (achieving a very high Match Score), the player will go up slightly in skill rating.

Stop! If you are the only one (in theory) who is good in your team it is almost impossible to go high in matchscore, because you fight practically alone against the enemy team. Compare your matchscore with the rest of the team don't include an absolute value. While you can still do 800+ dmg while the rest of your team does 100, you cannot do that every round. Most of them end with a low matchscore for good players too, because they cannot carry *every* game (esp. if they level mechs). You should rise quite high in the skill rating, if you have a match score of 100 while the next one in the line got 50 followed by 10 people with under 30. This is a non-linear function.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

If a players' team loses, but the player performed well (achieving a high Match Score), the player will not move in skill rating.

He should still rise. He fought against the odds.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

If the players' team loses, and the player performed poorly (achieving a low Match Score), they will drop in skill rating.

This is okay again - but remember: This is a teamplay-game. If your team is... erm... bad, you can't do much to compensate. Its only possible, if the enemy team is also bad, which is not the case most of the time.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

PSR and Skill Tiers

With the new PSR system in place we are now able to put players into Skill Tiers.

There are 5 Skill Tiers in which a pilot can be ranked: Tier 1 being comprised of the best-rated players in the game, and Tier 5 being comprised of pilots who are in dire need of additional training. That being said, we now have much more control over who plays against whom, without the presence of the ‘release valves’ that were in place under the original system.
The original Elo system for MWO employed these release valves to allow the matchmaker to relax restrictions in an effort to start games faster. This could result in top-tier players being matched with newer or lower-skilled players. With the release of PSR, that system is now gone.
A Tier 1 player will never play against a Tier 4 or Tier 5 player.
New players are automatically seeded into the mid-to-high range of Tier 4.
All current players will be seeded into whichever Skill Tier best aligns with the historical data already present in their account. The historical data pool used for generating your Tier placement goes back until January 2015.

Did you track the match score for that?

InnerSphereNews, on 17 August 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

The weighted formula and action triggers will not be released publicly. However, we are currently debating the merits of making all players’ respective Skill Tier levels publicly accessible. Part of this potential public Skill Tier listing is the possibility for opting-in or opting-out of listing your Skill Tier publicly. Tina will likely be putting up a poll to gather feedback about which option the community feels would be the best choice for handling public Skill Tiers.

Good... lets give us the choice.

[Cyrilis]

OK PGI, here is my question to the new PSR system:
In our unit, we have peolpe that will be ranked Tier 4 or 5. These Player have the job to take out the beginners (ranked Tier 1 to 3 to train them in the PUGS.
So how does the PSR handle a premade of Tier 4/5 and Tier 1 players?
As the patch notes say:

A Tier 1 player will never play against a Tier 4 or Tier 5 player

the only possibility I can figure out is to match a 12 man team of Tier 3 players against them. That smells like hours of waiting time. Is there an exception for from the rule ? Or do we get to know in which Tier we are so that we can workaround stuff like this?

[Danielio97]

I would say that the PSR system is a huge step in the right direction. I would really like to see what tier I'm in, I hope it's not Tier 5

I really hope that we would be able to access old Forest Colony through Training Grounds. When I build a new 'mech, I always test it in Forest Colony, since training 'mechs are quite close to each other and it is a heat neutral map.

Now something random: Any news on CDA-3F? I really want my Cicada with jump jets!

Edited by Danielio97, 18 August 2015 - 01:56 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

looks nice, but

1) with the portraits created under 1080p, can simply new "change" re-create them sharp ? (i hope so)

2) new elo - seems, its getting on more what you did ingame, more damage etc, which is perfect. question is, how will work the 5 tiers selection. im curious.

3) the PUG drops will be still 4+4+4 ? (weights)

[coe7]

Cyrilis, on 18 August 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

OK PGI, here is my question to the new PSR system:
In our unit, we have peolpe that will be ranked Tier 4 or 5. These Player have the job to take out the beginners (ranked Tier 1 to 3 to train them in the PUGS.
So how does the PSR handle a premade of Tier 4/5 and Tier 1 players?
As the patch notes say:

A Tier 1 player will never play against a Tier 4 or Tier 5 player

the only possibility I can figure out is to match a 12 man team of Tier 3 players against them. That smells like hours of waiting time. Is there an exception for from the rule ? Or do we get to know in which Tier we are so that we can workaround stuff like this?

I pretty sure PGI official said in reddit or somewhere else that group PSR will be just average PSR of the whole group in pure number vs group with similar number. There is no restrictions regarding class 5 or class 1 players in group que, only overall PSR average matters.

Patch note you refer is towards solo queue.

I'm going to be a sad panda after this patch, no more farm runs.

Edited by coe7, 18 August 2015 - 02:05 AM.

[ACWILD]

Since you have got servers in Europe it would be very intelligent from you to put GMT too in your announcement.
You know we european play this game too.....

Just to say.

[coe7]

Centurion72, on 18 August 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

Since you have got servers in Europe it would be very intelligent from you to put GMT too in your announcement.
You know we european play this game too.....

Just to say.

Facepalm. UTC is "GMT". They use it on all of their announcements. Google it up.

Edited by coe7, 18 August 2015 - 02:11 AM.

[smokefield]

nooooo TS 3 overlay needs to work !

[White Bear 84]

What happens if you are tier one and your GROUP team mate is tier 5 does this crash the system? lol

And when you say 'currently' does this insinuate changes to the #players per match ahead (outside of cw)?

I also hope this will not lead to not playing against recognisable forumites in game!

[L Y N X]

PGI is changing MM from elo to PSR... WOOT I've been waiting a loong time for this improvement.

It may take some time for PGI to tune their PSR algorithms, but I think they are on the right path now!

Kudos PGI!!!!

[BluefireMW]

I am looking forward what this PSR is changing, if it changes something.

More Important i guess, would it be to compare the PSR with BV (BattleValue) of a Mech in use. Not important of it's size, just it's value to battle.

I guess, that this would be the change needed, to level out a match.

Did I read something about a PSR, groups will have?

Edited by BluefireMW, 18 August 2015 - 02:44 AM.

[Unit47]

Quote

Actions such as flanking an enemy, using a UAV to spot targets, or using TAG/NARC/BAP to mark targets, are now all part of this formula

The tears of the lurmboats will flood the forums once they get constanly rekt in tier1 and tier2.

[ShinVector]

Was there any mention of Fixes for Oceanic server Desync problem ???

[Arete]

Whatever my tier is, I will officially deem it to be Urbantier.