80 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Just a curiosity, but why are IS Medlas still 4 heat?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Medium_Laser

Listed on Sarna as 3 heat per, would this not help IS mechs just that little bit?

Edited by Mister D, 19 August 2015 - 12:17 PM.

[nehebkau]

Incoming QQ about how over-powered IS mechs are in 3...2....1...

[Rhaythe]

There's a lot in this game that isn't exactly on par with Sarna and BattleTech in general.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mister D, on 19 August 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Just a curiosity, but why are IS Medlas still 4 heat?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Medium_Laser

Listed on Sarna as 3 heat per, would this not help IS mechs just that little bit?

Well, large groups of Clan players believe that IS medium lasers are as good as c ER MLs but just have a different role, due to their lower heat and lower duration, so if this buff were to come out, the tears would be real, and PGI would be labeled as hating clans, favoring IS, and people would demand refunds because of how underpowered Clan mechs would become as a result of this.

That said, I think that MLs can use some help, as they significantly underperform compared to cER MLs.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 August 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mister D, on 19 August 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Just a curiosity, but why are IS Medlas still 4 heat?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Medium_Laser

Listed on Sarna as 3 heat per, would this not help IS mechs just that little bit?

Like other weapon stats, they changed it according to how they think it plays into the game. It used to be 3 heat in the Beta phase of the game, but they bumped it to 4 heat because it was too powerful of a weapon in the absence of Clan ERML. Now that we have Clan ERML to deal with.... (Insert lack of change here)

[Rhaythe]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

That said, I think that MLs can use some help, as they significantly underperform compared to on par with cER MLs SLs.

Fixed that for you.

</snark off>

[Dimento Graven]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

...and PGI would be labeled as hating clans, favoring IS, ...

As opposed to now, where PGI hates the IS, and is in a constant state of felating the Clans...

You see how that works?

[FupDup]

It's a Legacy Feature™. Once upon a time, the laser-boating Swayback somehow became the meta. Thus, PGI nerfed the ML in response. The SL also got nerfed in the same way. These nerfs remain to this day, and their Clan counterparts have been indirectly inherited this.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

IS ML need a buff, and a heat reduction is a good start. I play clan mechs almost exclusively but i tinker with IS tech in my spare time and I will attest that IS ML are not just different, they're worse. The shorter beam durations do not in any way make up for their less damage and range. The heat does a little but not nearly enough.

The rational fear by us clanners is that uber-quriks will stack with improved IS lasers. Hopefully IS lasers (the smaller ones) will get a buff in the big balance update that is coming, an update that is supposed to eliminate the uber-quriks.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 19 August 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Dimento Graven, on 19 August 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

As opposed to now, where PGI hates the IS, and is in a constant state of felating the Clans...

You see how that works?

I mean I don't think they hate either, as it stands now, the creme of the Clan crop is slightly better than that of the IS, especially at those mid-ranged engagements where Gauss, cERMLs, and cLPLs really shine, which matter more in my opinion, but the disparity is not that hard to overcome, so I don't really care, I think balance is okay. Lowering ML heat wouldn't really sway the ship too much, but would help out a little.

[Rhaythe]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 19 August 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

IS ML need a buff, and a heat reduction is a good way to go. I play almost clan mechs exclusively and I will attest that IS ML are not just different, they're worse. The shorter beam durations do not in any way make up for their less damage and range. The heat does a little but not nearly enough.

The rational fear by us clanners is that uber-quriks will stack with improved IS lasers. Hopefully IS lasers (the smaller ones) will get a buff in the big balance update that is coming, an update that is supposed to eliminate the uber-quriks.

Arguably, should we be buffing up toward the ever-shrinking, twitch-based TTK, or nerfing down toward a more tactical, lower TTK?

Obviously my vote is the latter.

[Mcgral18]

Why?
Because Lunchbacks.

Also note the totally OP SLunchbacks, which caused a 200% heat increase on Small Lasers, which stands to this day. Dem SHSs couldn't handle it.

[Gas Guzzler]

Rhaythe, on 19 August 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Arguably, should we be buffing up toward the ever-shrinking, twitch-based TTK, or nerfing down toward a more tactical, lower TTK?

Obviously my vote is the latter.

We are very far from a twitch-based TTK like CoD. If you are experiencing that frequently you are doing something very wrong.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Prosperity Park, on 19 August 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Like other weapon stats, they changed it according to how they think it plays into the game. It used to be 3 heat in the Beta phase of the game, but they bumped it to 4 heat because it was too powerful of a weapon in the absence of Clan ERML. Now that we have Clan ERML to deal with.... (Insert lack of change here)

I blame the 9ML Hunchback 4p for this.... I also blame the 4p for giving ML ghost heat

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

We are very far from a twitch-based TTK like CoD. If you are experiencing that frequently you are doing something very wrong.

Or playing a locust.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 19 August 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[stealthraccoon]

I so want small lasers to be 1 heat...

Dropping med laser heat would be one step closer to that goal - it's not like I don't already gets bathed in green lazor alphas enough as is

[Dimento Graven]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

I mean I don't think they hate either, as it stands now, the creme of the Clan crop is slightly better than that of the IS, especially at those mid-ranged engagements where Gauss, cERMLs, and cLPLs really shine, which matter more in my opinion, but the disparity is not that hard to overcome, so I don't really care, I think balance is okay. Lowering ML heat wouldn't really sway the ship too much, but would help out a little.

Given the changes, and proposed changes that PGI is talking about it's hard, as a dedicated IS player, to not take some of it very personally.

'Slightly better' I guess is an extremely personal perspective.

It takes approximately 10% MORE damage, on average, inflicted on Clan 'mechs to kill them verses their IS equivalents, and that's just damage inflicted. Given that most clan builds can out alpha their IS equivalents by more than 10%, easily, that's a SIGNIFICANT advantage.

The easy mode Clanners ***** to high heaven the moment ANY IS weapon or 'mech starts getting close to being 'on par' with Clan tech.

I'd be ok with IS being completely sub-par with Clan tech, AS LONG AS, in CW when it was IS vs. Clan matches, the IS could either field 15 or more tons per drop deck, OR, the Clan side dropped with only 10 pilots.

That way the IS "greater numbers" could balance the "superior tech" of the clans.

As it is now, the Clans get to have their cake and eat it too.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 19 August 2015 - 12:38 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 19 August 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Or playing a locust.

That is one of those fringe cases... but yeah you have to play very cautiously with those.

[KraftySOT]

If they lower the medium laser heat.

I want my medium pulse heat lowered too. Because ours was raised because theirs was raised.

Moar wub.

[mogs01gt]

Mister D, on 19 August 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Just a curiosity, but why are IS Medlas still 4 heat?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Medium_Laser

Listed on Sarna as 3 heat per, would this not help IS mechs just that little bit?

I dont see it helping much. Heat isnt an issue with ML's. Their issue is range.

[Dimento Graven]

mogs01gt, on 19 August 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

I dont see it helping much. Heat isnt an issue with ML's. Their issue is range.

Yes, let's be clear, it's not JUST that the clan version does more damage...