62 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Praehotec8, on 21 August 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

So basically, what you are saying is that SRMs need to be better? Because if so, I agree.

No it means people should lern to either use the correct weapons or stop complaining usign wrong inefficient weapons vs those targets. Srm's are great at where they can hit single locations, they are bad spread vs lights. SSRM's are even worse because they lock and spread even more.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 August 2015 - 12:21 AM.

[Praehotec8]

Lily from animove, on 21 August 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

No it means people should lern to either use the correct weapons or stop complaining usign wrong inefficient weapons vs those targets. Srm's are great at where they can hit single locations, they are bad spread vs lights. SSRM's are even worse because they lock and spread even more.

I get the point being made...BUT...the game is not and should not be (completely) rock, scissors, paper. Sure SRMs are not perhaps optimal vs. lights. However, if one gets point blank up on one and unloads with SRMs, they SHOULD cluster tight (particularly with artemis!) enough to strongly damage the mech in the locations aimed at, albeit slightly less focused than on a heavier mech.

All discussion of SRMs aside, I did just play a single game in an ACH...and boy, it felt nice for a light. I am a TERRIBLE light pilot. I SHUT DOWN, right in front of a whale, with one leg's armor gone, and not only did it fail to kill me, I was able to power up, cool down and then kill IT. It felt so wrong...and yet so right at the same time!

Edited by Praehotec8, 21 August 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Praehotec8, on 21 August 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

So basically, what you are saying is that SRMs need to be better? Because if so, I agree.

They do.

There are some mechs that can do well with them, but usually only when heavily boated or quirked.

They are but a shadow of their former glory.

[Yokaiko]

DjPush, on 20 August 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

B.) Hit reg

You can see the SRM vollies that you are shooting from the front hitting the rear armor.

[Joseph Mallan]

DjPush, on 20 August 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

The spice must flow...

[Blue Boutique]

Yokaiko, on 21 August 2015 - 01:37 AM, said:

You can see the SRM vollies that you are shooting from the front hitting the rear armor.

Splash damage from the missiles hitting the ground behind the mech.

[Yokaiko]

Either way they flew through the mech to get there.

[Lugh]

DjPush, on 20 August 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

I keep seeing in the forums: "Where is the proof? Show us a video, or it didn't happen." Here is the best one I could find. I don't know if it justifies the claims people are making of the mech being god like. Myself? I don't know what to say about the ACH. Haven't piloted one. I do come across them a lot. So I will say this: If it is not the mech people claim then why is it the only light on the field? Also, it is the top damage scoring mech in almost every match (I have played). They repeatedly out perform the assaults and heavies with 600-900 damage with most of the team kills. Here is a clip from Monday night:


You be the judge.

A.) Lurn 2 aim
B.) Hit reg
C.) invincible mech

You need to get your eyes checked. In each of those volleys the MAJORITY of the missles missed. The first you hit solidly, the rest you took an arm and a side torso, then you finally got back to the CT and that last volley you hit with like 4 of the 18 missles.

Sad sad accuracy.

[Lily from animove]

Praehotec8, on 21 August 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

I get the point being made...BUT...the game is not and should not be (completely) rock, scissors, paper. Sure SRMs are not perhaps optimal vs. lights. However, if one gets point blank up on one and unloads with SRMs, they SHOULD cluster tight (particularly with artemis!) enough to strongly damage the mech in the locations aimed at, albeit slightly less focused than on a heavier mech.

All discussion of SRMs aside, I did just play a single game in an ACH...and boy, it felt nice for a light. I am a TERRIBLE light pilot. I SHUT DOWN, right in front of a whale, with one leg's armor gone, and not only did it fail to kill me, I was able to power up, cool down and then kill IT. It felt so wrong...and yet so right at the same time!

such a system will never work, because the size of the targets decide this, and such a cluster would need to be tight as an AC 20 bullet. Some wepaon systems, given by how they work, will always having a stone, scissocor paper mechanic. And when a whale can'T kill you properly even if shut down, what hs this to do with the game itself. play vs proepr whales and you gonna cry in a corner. Especialyl since sr's are fire and forget, hwo should they know which tarhget they fly into? if a mehc moveys quickly sideways you don't even shoot at this mehc, instead in front of it. How are missiles going to know that? they can't. So unlöess you make every hit rol a dice for the location it hits your proposal won't work.

when you design a mech, you have to consider the entire range of situations. And properly build a mech for whats most suited. That is major part of MWO's gameplay. if people build mechs not able to efficiently kill a specific mech there is nothing wrong with the weapon system.

[mogs01gt]

DarthRevis, on 20 August 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

Moral of the story is SRMS are not so good.

They are ******* useless! Way too much spread. On big targets they actually hit but that means you are face checking mechs with high alphas.

[Koniks]

Kiiyor, on 20 August 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

SRM's are garbage against lights. They are the worst weapon system against them. They never concentrate damage against such a small target, even at point blank range.

I don't see anything wrong there. The missiles spread to each edge of the mech's silhouette and then some, and some of those volleys were aimed at the arms.

Clan SRMs have worse spread than IS SRMs. I can't remember the exact values but I think even with Artemis they're still worse than vanilla IS SRMs. If you go into testing grounds and try to shoot the Command you'll have problems.

On top of spread paths, convergence is also an issue. At close range the hardpoint locations have a big impact, too. Unlike lasers, they don't have instant convergence at every angle. That's one of the reasons the Summoner can't even SRM boat better than mechs with fewer hardpoints.

The evidence showing hit reg on moving targets needs to show pings. HSR, with the mech on the server not being where it appears on the client, probably plays a role.

On the other hand, SRM hit reg on stationary mechs, not only the Cheetah, is sometimes completely borked. Streaks seem to register significantly better even if they spread all over.

[FupDup]

Mizeur, on 21 August 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Clan SRMs have worse spread than IS SRMs. I can't remember the exact values but I think even with Artemis they're still worse than vanilla IS SRMs. If you go into testing grounds and try to shoot the Command you'll have problems.

On top of spread paths, convergence is also an issue. At close range the hardpoint locations have a big impact, too. Unlike lasers, they don't have instant convergence at every angle. That's one of the reasons the Summoner can't even SRM boat better than mechs with fewer hardpoints.

The evidence showing hit reg on moving targets needs to show pings. HSR, with the mech on the server not being where it appears on the client, probably plays a role.

On the other hand, SRM hit reg on stationary mechs, not only the Cheetah, is sometimes completely borked. Streaks seem to register significantly better even if they spread all over.

The Clan SRMs have 0.2 more spread than IS SRMs...it's a fairly trivial difference.

[H I A S]

Deathlike, on 20 August 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

The moral of this story... aim for the legs... ON ALL LIGHTS.

-Jenner

[Deathlike]

HiasRGB, on 21 August 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

-Jenner

While it has the easiest CT to core, people still don't get that legging a light STOPS the chase, and makes life easier for everyone.

Otherwise the chase continues... and watching people in Dire Wolves chase is... amusing.

[Koniks]

FupDup, on 21 August 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

The Clan SRMs have 0.2 more spread than IS SRMs...it's a fairly trivial difference.

What are the absolute values? I recall that being a significant percentage.

[FupDup]

Mizeur, on 21 August 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

What are the absolute values? I recall that being a significant percentage.

IS SRM2: 4.8
Clan SRM2: 5.0

IS SRM4: 5.2
Clan SRM4: 5.4

IS SRM6: 5.7
Clan SRM6: 5.9

[Lily from animove]

FupDup, on 21 August 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

IS SRM2: 4.8
Clan SRM2: 5.0

IS SRM4: 5.2
Clan SRM4: 5.4

IS SRM6: 5.7
Clan SRM6: 5.9

afetr a hitreg fix they removed splash damage on srm's I justw ent testing groudn shot an arm off a centuriion and there was no damage splashign anywhere with C-SRM's.

are you sure there is some splashdamage?

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 August 2015 - 12:42 PM.

[FupDup]

Lily from animove, on 21 August 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

afetr a hitreg fix they removed splash damage on srm's I justw ent testing groudn shot an arm off a centuriion and there was no damage splashign anywhere with C-SRM's.

are you sure there is some splashdamage?

Those values above aren't splash, they're spread.

[Lily from animove]

FupDup, on 21 August 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Those values above aren't splash, they're spread.

ah ok, sry then I derped xD

[Mcgral18]

Mizeur, on 21 August 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

What are the absolute values? I recall that being a significant percentage.

Artemis is a blanket 34% spread reduction, spread being a 40CM difference when Mechs are multiple meters wide.


I assume the Spread stat is Meters and Radius, at least. Makes the most sense.