107 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Davers, on 21 August 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

We can't have it per mech, or the Tier 1 guys will be having a field day every time a new mech is released.

Compromise: Maybe have each player's new mech start out as the same value as their previous mech, but then after that the new mech tracks its own individual PSR?

[Sky Legacy]

How do you get into group queue by dropping solo?

[Andan]

FupDup, on 21 August 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

Compromise: Maybe have each player's new mech start out as the same value as their previous mech, but then after that the new mech tracks its own individual PSR?

Some games will add the tier with the players elo. These games also figure out how many skills have been unlocked. This changes the base value that is added to the players elo. This would in turn prevent any competent player in a new mech from playing against a new player in a new mech.

This is all impossible becuase currently matchmaker cant find me 23 sub superstar scrubs to play with in less then 10 minutes.

Edited by Andan, 21 August 2015 - 08:59 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Davers, on 21 August 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

We can't have it per mech, or the Tier 1 guys will be having a field day every time a new mech is released.

You're under the assumption that they too aren't leveling their new 'mechs...

[LordNothing]

i am not enjoying leveling my spiders at all. i almost play mastered mechs exclusively except for when im leveling stuff. it seems my stats have been padded as a result, so when i drop down to an un basiced light chassis with no upgrades, i do not have a good time at all. im getting under 100 damage when im used to getting 300+ in similar mechs. so i concur that this new psr thing makes leveling mechs suck a lot. today i ran a lot of heavies and assaults to get money for another spider and to put dhs in the one i bought a couple days ago. im worried that the doing well that results from running those mastered mechs is keeping me from dropping to a lesser tier where i probibly belong.

[Davers]

FupDup, on 21 August 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

Compromise: Maybe have each player's new mech start out as the same value as their previous mech, but then after that the new mech tracks its own individual PSR?

I think we should keep the '1 per weight class' that we had before.

Dimento Graven, on 21 August 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

You're under the assumption that they too aren't leveling their new 'mechs...

Tier 1 players will still have better heat management, better accuracy, and (MOST importantly of all) better positioning/situational awareness than all their opponents. You think a non mastered mech will even the battlefield?

[Raggedyman]

Flyby215, on 20 August 2015 - 08:27 PM, said:

Okay, so there's a new Elo system in town. Great! However, exactly how am I supposed to level new mechs under this new system?

<snip>

In a properly balanced game, an Awesome should not be at a disadvantage to a Dire Wolf if both players are of equal skill in their respective mechs; just because one can afford a heavier mech, should not make said player better than a fellow player of equal skill level. If I am actually among players of my skill level, according to Elo/PSR, then my Awesome should be at least reasonably competitive against a Dire Wolf.

<snip>

This is not fair.

First off: an Awesome is 80 tons IC, a Dire Wolf is 100 tons of premium clan tech. It's going to kick your arse one-to-one: It's heavier, it's more expensive, it's a Dire Wolf.

Secondly: you're beef here is not about the Tiers, it's about mech balance. Remove the tiers and your basic complaint is still there, so maybe pitch your complaint at that.

Thirdly: Tiers haven't been out for a week, so they haven't stabilized because the initial rankings were based on old system data and approximations into the new system. It needs real-life data to get you to the games you should be playing, so feed it more data.

So, if you are worried about not being able to have fun in your drops my advice is that you have fun and drop. So you might have a couple of days, maybe even a week, of worse results than you're used to. Whatever, think long term and you should be able to see the benefits.

[Triordinant]

Flyby215, on 20 August 2015 - 08:27 PM, said:

Okay, so there's a new Elo system in town. Great! However, exactly how am I supposed to level new mechs under this new system?

If you're leveling 'mechs you should be doing it in the solo queue, not the group queue or CW.

Edited by Triordinant, 21 August 2015 - 11:08 PM.

[Shadow Magnet]

If the PSR system works correctly and the OP has a high tier from playing his regular mechs, how should playing in the pug queue help him leveveling new mechs? If the PSR system & the MM can find really matched players, he will be facing again highly competetive players. Hello logic?

Actually, I almost always leveled my new mechs in the group queue. It is much easier and efficient for me because I know who I am teaming up with (unlike in the pug queue) and I know the friends will carry me, allowing to farm some easy XP.
I just stand back a bit, be more careful and not try to go in at full risk, as I would normally do.

Also please explain to me how it is logical and *fun* for the players to advise them "oh, just lose 10-20 matches horribly, then you will be in the right tier to play". WTF?!?! I guess not everyone has the time to play MWO non-stop, 10-20 matches = how many hours of wasted time is that? One has to get seriously b*tt r***d to have fun?!?!? Sorry, but that advise is just nonsense and another excuse for the lazyness of PGI.

Especially if you want fair, balanced and even matched games, the game system should group up players considering more aspects:

- the players overall performance (the current PSR)
- the players overall performance in this mech chassis (per variant!)
- the mech BV

Why?

A good player will still do better in a new, totally unskilled mech than an inexperienced player.
A player does not perform equally good on every mech.
The mech unlocked skills do have an impact on the performance
The mech equipment does have a serious impact on the performance. Stock builds, fun builds, ...

What is the problem in saying: Ok, PGI, the PSR system is a good first step, let's add more elements to make the match making even more accurate?

[Telmasa]

tl/dr

Don't Grind New Mechs In Group Qeue

/thread

[Shadow Magnet]

Telmasa, on 21 August 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

tl/dr

Don't Grind New Mechs In Group Qeue

/thread

I would say that statement is only valid if you team up with players of a higher tier. The MM takes the average team PSR value, pulling you up to a higher tier.

If the MM/PSR works well, you will face equally skilled players in the solo queue - why do you think that this is easier for leveling?

[JohnnyWayne]

I find it entertaining how people not understand how much double basics actually matter.

I find it even more entertaining how CW has become the casual mode for MWO where as the group and solo queue is that hardcore tryhard gamemode PGI stated CW would become.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 22 August 2015 - 04:05 AM.

[Yokaiko]

JohnnyWayne, on 22 August 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

I find it entertaining how people not understand how much double basics actually matter.

I find it even more entertaining how CW has become the casual mode for MWO where as the group and solo queue is that hardcore tryhard gamemode PGI stated CW would become.

PGI should fix the rewards then.

[JohnnyWayne]

Huh? How is this related to rewards?

To be honest MWO rather needs a reason to keep playing if you are over the pokemechs character of the game... Something to do and to aim for. I don't know how rewards fit in there? I have so many Cbills only thing I care of is XP when I get a new toy every now and then. That keeps me entertained for a week....

[Yokaiko]

JohnnyWayne, on 22 August 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

Huh? How is this related to rewards?

To be honest MWO rather needs a reason to keep playing if you are over the pokemechs character of the game... Something to do and to aim for. I don't know how rewards fit in there? I have so many Cbills only thing I care of is XP when I get a new toy every now and then. That keeps me entertained for a week....

CW

I hesitate to drop, despite it being my favorite mode because I can make more in the solo queue, without the downtime, and without ghost drops.

Period.

Since there is no real reason to own a planet, and the rewards run about 55-65% of what I can do in the pub queue in an hour, why bother.

There is no carrot.

[JohnnyWayne]

And I drop in CW rather than in regular queue because the chance of getting a more enjoyable win out of it is higher. They rather create a real reason for owning a planet, maybe even some daily "missions" (so litterally quests) to keep people involved.

I have to tryhard in regular queues to win. There is no lighter gameplay in MWO, PSR / ELO didnt contribute to that either.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Night Thastus, on 21 August 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Your PSR has nothing to do with "potential" or what 'Mechs you're bringing. It has to do with how well you do in the matches. AKA: Match score.

High match score + Win = Go up
High Match Score + Loss = Stay where you are
Low Match Score + Win = Stay where you are
Low Match Score + Loss = Go down

I think this is how it goes, at least high match score with a loss puts you up:

High match score + Win = Go up
High match score + Loss = Go up
Medium match score + Win = Go up
Medium match score + Loss = Stay
Low match score + Win = Stay / Go down
Low match score + Loss = Go down

[Dimento Graven]

Davers, on 21 August 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

...

Tier 1 players will still have better heat management, better accuracy, and (MOST importantly of all) better positioning/situational awareness than all their opponents. You think a non mastered mech will even the battlefield?

So you take Tier 1 in an optimized maxed out 'mech and put the average player in the same, it's all the same difference.

EXCEPT, that as you say, the Tier 1 player is going to be able to take EVEN MORE advantage in his optimized maxed 'mech...

I really think we're arguing a zero sum gain now that I think about it.

[Mister Blastman]

I was in several drops where almost every mech on the enemy team had a least one LRM launcher along with a strange combination of other weapons. It was a surreal place.

All those months of not playing have paid off! I think I took an eight month break with a total of twenty games played. Yeah. Hee hee. I quickly scored out of that place but damn, I kinda miss it.

It was a bizarre playground of demented deformed robotica.

[FupDup]

Mister Blastman, on 22 August 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

I was in several drops where almost every mech on the enemy team had a least one LRM launcher along with a strange combination of other weapons. It was a surreal place.

All those months of not playing have paid off! I think I took an eight month break with a total of twenty games played. Yeah. Hee hee. I quickly scored out of that place but damn, I kinda miss it.

It was a bizarre playground of demented deformed robotica.

You may very well have caught a glimpse of the fabled Steering Wheel Underhive™.