60 replies to this topic

[Better Call Saul]

Paul Inouye, on 21 August 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Hey Folks,

Yes, we have noticed the increase in match making times but it is a known issue that would arise from the new PSR system. One thing that drives this is that we increased the amount of time that the match maker sits there looking for an exact Tier match. This means the 'release valves' from the previous systems aren't kicking in as soon as they used to.

Previously, the release on skill matching would kick in at 45 seconds. With PSR this was increased to 60 seconds. This is working well in terms of match quality for the solo queue but is causing rather long wait times for the group queue.

That being said, we have reduced the amount of time the match maker looks for exact matches in the group queue to 30 seconds. It's not going to make the wait times drastically shorter but it should help noticeably overall.

This was applied yesterday afternoon. Hopefully across the weekend we can get more data as to how this affected the group queue wait times.

Having to wait 20 minutes to find a game with a 4 man in unacceptable.

[Goombah]

Better Call Saul, on 23 August 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

Having to wait 20 minutes to find a game with a 4 man in unacceptable.

This.

[Kmieciu]

BattleBunny, on 23 August 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

Honestly, I hope they get rid of both restrictions. I want to play the game. Not stare at the search wheel.

Do we really mind that much if both teams have 8 heavies?

I agree.
The 3/3/3/3 system is just masking the problem of heavies being the best weight class in game.
I had a match the other day (after PSR) in the group queue: 6 heavies and 5 assaults on our team. We had to wait for the matchmaker to give up, but in the end, we had our way.

PS.
In my opinion having 24 tier one players in a match actually increases the probability of a 12-0 stomp. Because every tactical mistake is brutally exploited and everyone is running a "serious" mech that can output high damage, pinpoint alpha.

Edited by Kmieciu, 23 August 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Felio, on 21 August 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Cap the group queue at 1 lance, like it used to be. Large groups have CW now.

no

BattleBunny, on 23 August 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

Honestly, I hope they get rid of both restrictions. I want to play the game. Not stare at the search wheel.

Do we really mind that much if both teams have 8 heavies?

If they both do....

What happens when one has 8 and the other has 1?

GG clothes thats what happens....

[AdamBaines]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 21 August 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Im the Worst Pilot in the game and I havent had to wait but at max 5 minutes, and Im Tier 6!

Tier 6....that's just a legend...and old wives tale I tell ya!

[1453 R]

I'm not sure what everyone here wants Piranha to do about wait times. It's CW all over again.

"Not being able to choose which modes I play is UNACCEPTABLE(!!!)"

"Not being able to choose which regional server I play on is UNACCEPTABLE(!!!)"

"Not being able to play with any number of buddies from two to ten in the group queue is UNACCEPTABLE(!!!)"

"Not being able to play whatever 'Mech I like is UNACCEPTABLE(!!!)"

"Not getting a perfectly even PSR match-up is UNACCEPTABLE(!!!)"

"Not being able to... ....is UNACCEPTABLE(!!!)"

"All these long wait times are UNACCEPTABLE(!!!)"

Hint for you, bros - the more often you use that word, the harder it is for the game to do its job.

I play with my brother and our buddy from time to time, a small 3-man group. We coordinate our 'Mech choices so we're each in a different weight class, we enable all three game modes, and we normally play in both NA and EU servers (unless the EU servers are being a pain to Maker, at which point we'll flip the EU servers off and just deal). We average two to five minute waits for matchmaking, usually closer to two than five.

Do we end up getting rolled? Sure, but that's the nature of MWO. The basic, fundamental structure of this game encourages snowballing and landslide victories, and all three of us get that. Sometimes you're the boot, and sometimes you're the weasel. But acknowledging that there's only so much the matchmaker can do to accommodate you and taking basic steps to work with the system can cut your wait times dramatically.

Or, to put it shortly: if things start being ACCEPTABLE(!!!) to you, you'll get a whole helluva lot more matches. It's not like the other game modes don't always devolve into Skirmish anyways, or like the 60-ping difference between NA and EU for most average folks is crippling.

[Kiriesani]

I don't know if I'm in tier 1, 2, or 3, but I have had absolutely no trouble finding matches at all. Our longest wait be it a 4 man or a 10-12 man has probably been 3-4 minutes. I don't know if it's a problem with Tier 1 or 5 teams that makes matchmaking have an issue. It's certainly not an issue for us even if we ONLY have American server and Conquest and Skirmish checked.

But if you want to widen the amount of teams you can fight why not bring some players that aren't that good into group queue? That might lower your rank down to an average of 2 and help you get matches faster?

That being said our win percentage (as a group, KFC, which is actually a group of people from multiple units) is probably actually higher than it was before the switch from ELO. We do bring people from all levels of skill in the game so that might account for us actually being in Tier 2-3 as a group.

Though being in a group of four of some of our best players in KFC our wait time wasn't any different.

That being said I don't think it's a valve issue. I think it's an issue of Tier 1 players not being able to find any T1 or maybe T2 people to fight against. If that's the case maybe we just make T1-3 have a higher population.

Honestly we have a lot more matches that are better matches than before. We still stomp and carry in most matches but I want to say our more equal matches where it's 6-11 kills for the enemy team is a lot higher. I don't know if there were just absolutely NO COMP TEAMS playing yesterday or what but we played around 30-35 matches and only lost like 3. I haven't had that good of a win ratio in quite some time. Still - a lot more matches were more evenly matched even if we won almost every game. I'm quite happy with the new system personally.

[Tarogato]

Felio, on 21 August 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Cap the group queue at 1 lance, like it used to be. Large groups have CW now.

Please god no. CW is terrible and I don't want to be subjected to it just so I can play with my unit.

Worst case scenario break group queue in to multiples of four. You can either launch as a group of 4, 8, or 12. That's three tetris pieces for matchmaker to figure instead of the current ten. Makes small groups happy, makes medium groups happy, and makes large groups happy. Also makes matchmaker happy.

I guess you could also have groups of 2, because two 2's make a 4. Alternatively, put groups of 2 into the solo queue. Especially at lower PSR. Tier 3, 4, or 5? Matchmaker considers solo queue. Tier 1, 2, or 3? Matchmaker considers group queue.

Edited by Tarogato, 26 August 2015 - 10:06 PM.

[White Bear 84]

BattleBunny, on 21 August 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

I have no idea how it all works, All i know is that my search times in the group queue, especially during EU afternoons are sometimes 10+ minutes, with one topping at 19 minutes. I hope you all agree that is not acceptable.

Basically would start to match up against lower/higher skills sooner, 30 seconds sooner to be precise.. ..what this shout mean is a relative decrease in wait times if each player gets matched up this way faster..

Just dont think of it as JUST 30/60 seconds. its per player from what I get... ...I feel the OP is vague in it says the MM looks, but what - for each player or for each drop? Communication guys. If you have 24 players that match up with other players 30 seconds faster, that should = a much quicker group drop time. If its just 30 seconds per match that is pretty negligible.

[Rogue Jedi]

I do not think I have ever had to wait more than 5 minutes for a non CW match (CW it is usualy closer to 20, hence I rarely play CW), I usualy have all game modes enabled, and US and EU servers enabled.

about 30% of my games are in solo queue, 50% are with small groups (4 or less) in group queue, about another 15% are in large groups in the group queue, the final 5% are CW, these are of course rough estimates rather than precise figures, if I take a Light Mech in solo queue (and I do quite regularly) it usualy takes less than a minute (and often less than 20 seconds) to find a match.

[Lily from animove]

just make seperated ratings for both queues. you can then probably even cut both tiers differently which grants you the ability to allow more people in the higher Tiers yet not interfering with the total newbies and low skiled pilots.

[Bellum Dominum]

YUyahoo, on 21 August 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Paul, you say in this new system "we increased the amount of time that the match maker sits there looking for an exact Tier match" meaning matches should be 'closer'...so why does there seem to be just as many stomps/one sided games (if not more) than there used to be? If this new system is more precise, how do I get on teams the new system thinks will be a fair fight for me instead of the teams I keep getting? For some I am sure they are getting better matches, but for me and wherever I happen to fall in this new system (which I am sure is in the lower/est tier) it is the same 'getting stomped game after game after game' (despite how well or poorly I play that game) as before. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind loosing close games or the occasional 'bad beat' but its very hard to improve (or "get good") if you keep getting bad team after bad team and are only winning an average of 2-3 games for every 9-10 played.

*sorry if this is in the wrong spot this has more to do with the new PSR in general than group que as I mostly only drop solo*

Not to answer for Paul but something we need to keep in mind: Just because you have 24 people at the same 'Tier' of play that doesn't mean their play styles are the same. Doesn't mean they 'play well with others' or with particular people, etc. Solo que in particular. I'm sure you've noticed that if you get matched up with certain people that you've played with a lot before and enjoy playing with that your matches tend to work out better for your team. PGI can not be responsible or expected to be responsible for 'making' people play as a team and no Elo system of any kind is ever going to create that variable for you.

I mostly solo as well anymore and I play the game much more than I should. I can't state this as fact but I'm willing to bet that if I put together a data sheet to calculate how my matches went incorporating the variable of teammates I work well with vs random players I don't remember ever seeing that it would show the Psr to be working fairly well. I certainly have noticed that I'm getting matches with names I know well both on my team and against. The part that is scaring me is I must be the filler for the match because these are some really good players

[Jello2142]

Death Drow, on 27 August 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

Not to answer for Paul but something we need to keep in mind: Just because you have 24 people at the same 'Tier' of play that doesn't mean their play styles are the same. Doesn't mean they 'play well with others' or with particular people, etc. Solo que in particular. I'm sure you've noticed that if you get matched up with certain people that you've played with a lot before and enjoy playing with that your matches tend to work out better for your team. PGI can not be responsible or expected to be responsible for 'making' people play as a team and no Elo system of any kind is ever going to create that variable for you.

I mostly solo as well anymore and I play the game much more than I should. I can't state this as fact but I'm willing to bet that if I put together a data sheet to calculate how my matches went incorporating the variable of teammates I work well with vs random players I don't remember ever seeing that it would show the Psr to be working fairly well. I certainly have noticed that I'm getting matches with names I know well both on my team and against. The part that is scaring me is I must be the filler for the match because these are some really good players

I drop solo or with 1 or maybe 2 friends. We group up so we can well run together not to preform precise maneuvers in the field however on occasion we do try once the changes for PSR and drop wait time were made we found we were getting lumped in as the filler for a larger pre-made group which most often resulted in a stomp or not fun time since we don't always feel like bringing Meta mechs (or have them)

SO try the following of course YMMV.
-We Q up in NA/Euro
-Set timer for 30 seconds
-If at 30 seconds no drop cancel and try again.

We have been doing this nightly for last 4 nights and in our experience when doing the above we end up in even drops. We find groups comprised of PUGs and small 2, 3 and 4 man groups (basing off of similar unit tags). Now this isn't saying we win but the fights are better. If we do not do this and allow MM to do its thing most often then not we find ourselves facing off against at least 10 people from the same unit typically in metamechs then the 2 or 3 of us end up as filler for another not as big pre-made and sadly we end up being what is likely slowing them down since some times I like to screw around on less than awesome mechs or maybe I am working on mastering a mech...

Either we are extremely lucky and this is all coincidence or...... once those valves open up it is a whole new world so to speak. If it isn't luck I would rather the timer be set back to 60 seconds or MORE to give it time to find a even match then get dumped in a match were I am holding a team back and getting rolled by another.

Hopefully this makes sense...

[Appuagab]

I'm farming event points with my friends now and MM is completely mad. We were playing with group of 5 against 10 premades and we were getting rekt of course. I think MM should determine groups PSR by calculating average PSR of all players in group + putting score up or down depending on group's size. For example weak twelve could fight against few groups of 3-4 strong players or two average 6. Not meh five vs wild twelve after 15 mins of searching like it's happening now.

[Bellum Dominum]

Jello2142, on 27 August 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Hopefully this makes sense...

It does and I'd guess there is probably a bit of both going on.. little manipulation of the MM so to speak with what you guys are doing and a little coincidence.

Maybe I'm just a glutten for punishment but I actually enjoy playing against those I know are 'my betters'... that is so long as there is some team cohesion going on with my team as well, no afks/dc's, you know the drill I'm sure.

Yeah being on the receiving end of the face stomp roll is rough but if you are on a team that works well and does a good job against it by say: keeping them from simply rolling through your team like a hot knife going through butter, or actually pull off killing 1/2 of their team (I remember a few units where simply getting a single kill on any of them was an accomplishment to be proud of), or heavens forbid... win the match. That is rewarding and a learning experience.

I don't know about the timer bit... as far as what is good or bad. I had a good taste of another online mechwarrior game that never came out of beta but I really loved how it's match drops worked. 4v4 mostly, set up by weight class: light, medium, heavy, assault (also you couldn't just join the game and start dropping in assaults.. started in lights and had to get matches in to open up the next higher weight class). You could drop in a lighter mech than the weight class drops if you wanted but obviously couldn't drop in anything heavier than the class. You went to a planet, picked the drop weight you wanted and 'signed up/boarded the dropship' You saw the names of the other players joining in the match and could chat with each other friendly or enemy until all 4 on both sides was filled. then every clicked ready and 10 seconds later the match started. anyways point is... I miss that style of match maker a lot ...

Obviously I think PGI's is fine or I'd not play the game so much... but it's just not the same as being able to coordinate with your teammates before the match on what mechs you were going to drop in and so forth.

[Nightmare1]

Cool, thanks!

For me, match times all week have been under 2 minutes, so it must be working well.

[Kjudoon]

I get why you did this bur would rather wIt longer tban be the victim of or tbe cause of a roflstomp.

[STEF_]

We need the Steam release.
All the problems with long waiting time are related to looooow population.

So, steam release, and let's hope new good players would train and form up fast.

[Ripgiblet]

Another option is too completely remove the 12 man a side. So that 6 elites can take on 18 noobs...and/or make it tonnage based, not slot based.. would be fun to play 20 locusts against 4 Assaults;]

But my problem with current system is that after leveling 86 mechs to elite... my psr is terrible... since always starting with new mechs.. that I dont upgrade much and then grind them out to elite... then next terrible mech etc...

Under the current system it seems almost impossible to increase your lvl, I am cleaning up in nearly every game, but if we get trounced I only score 230+ points and still lose ranking... even though i get solo kill and over 400dam and assist 6 (The only enemy that died.)
So even after 10 wins in the row with average of 300+ match score.. I cant even see the bar moving... is it calculated on every game I have ever played or something? how many points are on that bar... or do I have to increase my total played average or something? Which way does the bar move? to the right? or the left? 40 games and still cant figure it out...

[grayson marik]

BattleBunny, on 23 August 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

Honestly, I hope they get rid of both restrictions. I want to play the game. Not stare at the search wheel.

Do we really mind that much if both teams have 8 heavies?

No one cares. But horrible matches where 5 Assaults and 7 Heavies stomp 1 Assault 2 Heavies and rest Med/Light are no fun also.

Only fair way would be a BV system, combining Pilot rating + Chassis Rating + Weapon/Modules/Equipment rating to a single BV value and teams get matched only by this resulting BV value.

This would do both: Create more fair teams and speed up the MM because there is only one value left to calculate with.

See this for example.