141 replies to this topic

[SolCrusher]

Man I could hold my own in the solo queue in any mech but now I'm lucky if I score over 300 points in my newly cbill purchased Timbers. I want to see my Tier because this isn't fun at all, if I'm in a higher Tier great, if I'm in a low Tier great too. I want to know why I feel like I'm just getting FARMED all night. All I get to see is optimized / meta builds and I can only have fun running said builds to compete. The boring meta has sucked all the fun out of this game.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

lol 9 man 0-12 game that was fun

I really miss elo

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 21 August 2015 - 09:30 PM.

[Kjudoon]

I wont play group queue because of the high ratio of seal clubbing. We need to reinstall 5he 4 man limit there and leace cw a fee for all for large groups. Its what they say they want anyway.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kjudoon, on 21 August 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

I wont play group queue because of the high ratio of seal clubbing. We need to reinstall 5he 4 man limit there and leace cw a fee for all for large groups. Its what they say they want anyway.

man Im really thinking there have to be ppl gaming the group rating regardless of what Russ thinks isnt possible

cause 228 228 228 kcom 9 man 228 -.-

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 21 August 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

if they average t2 they play everyone but t5. Expect a good team to try everything possible including having fewer people per group to more easily affect the average.

Team damage also seems to affect the score fairly well so I suspect in about 2 weeks we will have people accusing top teams of blasting each other to lower their scores. It would be silly if they did not take advantage of this if possible.

I expect group Q to always be a group of professional seal clubbers (fat white virgins in mommys basement) that not only play better but memorize every aspect of the game to do so,

[Vlad Ward]

Group queue is always going to have the worst matching options. You have to deal with group size, 3/3/3/3, and tier rating. Two of those end of giving way pretty much every game because of the (at this point) nonsensical restriction on letting solo players drop with groups.

Don't want to get matched against T1-T2 players in group queue? That's too bad, because somewhere out there there's a group of 7 that can only get filled by a 3+2 or a group of 5. Happen to fit one of those categories? Congratulations, there are your teammates. Oh, that group of 7 was T1? Sucks to be you, man.

Group-only queue wreaks havoc on the matchmaking algorithm. Play solo or sync drop if you want decent games in low tiers.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 21 August 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Of course units are gaming the system thanks to the 100 player limit. The unit tag means nothing. They are the same people with the same teamspeaks dropping together. It has long beebln known a whole lance of elite pilots and their high efficiency meta builds can hide safely in a large group and farm like crazy.

It is why group queue is a cesspit and i wont go back any time soon. Not to mention it had an impact on whether to quit my unit in MWO since i will also not be playing CW for a long time at this rate.

[LordNothing]

game needs more tiers. then keep teir match range narrow unless no players. also they should have started everyone at the bottom. it would have sucked at first (kind of like it does now), but it would have quickly sorted the good from the bad.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 August 2015 - 10:41 PM.

[Tarogato]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

Ill do that in the future but I dont see how it isnt gamable, you do badly enough it drops you in tiers does it not? So if you went into matches and just did the worst you can for long enough you would then end up in a lower bracket wouldnt you? Ppl apparently do it all the time in other games and do it on alt accounts called smurfs

Who in their right mind would want to play that badly for so long to tank their tier enough just to go seal clubbing? Playing badly intentionally isn't fun or rewarding. Trust me, when good teams face you, it's not because they've been trying to fail their way into a lower bracket just to club seals. They play to have fun, and winning for them is fun. Also, I don't know anybody that smurfs to intentionally to club seals. Sometimes they do it to try out new chassis before buying on their main account or they use it as a training account to hold hands with a new player in the group queue or they just want to try out the NPE all over again. But even then, aside from Clan/IS split accounts, alt'ing I don't think is that common. Game is very grindy and grinding a 2nd account is just a pain in the butt.

Russ Bullock, on 21 August 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Take a screen shot of a match in question and we could check all the tiers in question and make sure it's working as intended.

Here's one I took by chance tonight. OP is on the enemy team. Was actually a very close match because my team made some really poor decisions. But generally my unit and most/all of its members are highly competitive and meta players, pretty much the exact opposite of how the OP describes himself. Also, our 9-man group was paired with a 3-man group of what I could only describe as noobs. Not to be rude or anything, but when spectating them it was clear that they were very inexperienced pilots.

[Redacted]

Above match recorded at 9:43pm PDT, Aug.21.

Edited by Odanan, 26 August 2015 - 02:31 PM.
Name & Shame

[spectralthundr]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

Ill do that in the future but I dont see how it isnt gamable, you do badly enough it drops you in tiers does it not? So if you went into matches and just did the worst you can for long enough you would then end up in a lower bracket wouldnt you? Ppl apparently do it all the time in other games and do it on alt accounts called smurfs

It doesn't drop you instantly, or after just 10, or even 50 games is what Russ is saying. If one wants to purposely do this, they're going to be tanking for 100's of games and really, why bother?

[StillRadioactive]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

man Im really thinking there have to be ppl gaming the group rating regardless of what Russ thinks isnt possible

cause 228 228 228 kcom 9 man 228 -.-

Here's the thing... if they're rolling you, then they're not gaming the system.

To game the system the way you describe it, they'd have to lose.

Matchmaker is just exceptionally bad in group queue now. Every night when I get on, I see literally the exact same enemy team in over 75% of my matches. And I know that, skill-wise, they're roughly comparable to us... but they literally only run DWFs, TBRs and ACHs... and my guys are just running whatever we need to grind. And we get rolled. And rolled. And rolled. By this one group, over and over again... for three straight days.

So what that tells me is that their tier-level is rising too slowly to separate us, and ours is falling too slowly. It's literally not possible for them to be "gaming the system" while winning, so we need to gain and lose more points per match for the steamroller to stop.

[Yokaiko]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

man Im really thinking there have to be ppl gaming the group rating regardless of what Russ thinks isnt possible

cause 228 228 228 kcom 9 man 228 -.-

I think that you grossly overestimate the number of players in the group queue. In three hours during US prime we went from literally trash tier teams that couldn't handle or build a mech to SJR and 228....and back.

No one is gaming the system, and likewise PSR stats go back 8 months, which is cool and all, but how many are like me that ONLY used the pub queue to grind new mechs. Because trust me, my screwing around with builds or leveling a mech and me with a Thunderwub are two different monsters.

......

[Corrado]

Yokaiko, on 22 August 2015 - 02:38 AM, said:

I think that you grossly overestimate the number of players in the group queue. In three hours during US prime we went from literally trash tier teams that couldn't handle or build a mech to SJR and 228....and back.

No one is gaming the system, and likewise PSR stats go back 8 months, which is cool and all, but how many are like me that ONLY used the pub queue to grind new mechs. Because trust me, my screwing around with builds or leveling a mech and me with a Thunderwub are two different monsters.

......

Are you saying you can't handle the game in non-meta mechs?

[Yokaiko]

Corrado, on 22 August 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

Are you saying you can't handle the game in non-meta mechs?

I'm saying meta mechs are meta mechs for a reason.

[The Iron Chancellor]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Well its driving the only friend I have in this game away. He gets bored when we spend a solid hour getting farmed by tourney leaders

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

Then whats the point?

wtf is the point with having tiers if they arent gonna be fighting each other and are fighting ppl lower than them anyways?

i mean Elo was better at sorting people then this, now its just chaos.

doesnt matter what tier your in your still gona be fighting everyone



...how do you know?

StillRadioactive, on 22 August 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

Here's the thing... if they're rolling you, then they're not gaming the system.

To game the system the way you describe it, they'd have to lose.

Matchmaker is just exceptionally bad in group queue now. Every night when I get on, I see literally the exact same enemy team in over 75% of my matches. And I know that, skill-wise, they're roughly comparable to us... but they literally only run DWFs, TBRs and ACHs... and my guys are just running whatever we need to grind. And we get rolled. And rolled. And rolled. By this one group, over and over again... for three straight days.

So what that tells me is that their tier-level is rising too slowly to separate us, and ours is falling too slowly. It's literally not possible for them to be "gaming the system" while winning, so we need to gain and lose more points per match for the steamroller to stop.

And that is why I've barely played with friends since this new system came out, in a way it feels worse than elo, at least in elo we could chalk up a bad evening to a recent winning spree, in this new system frankly you can't tell why it happens, especially since now every-time I do play with friends, we seem to just come across the same big-coordinated-groups over and over again.

Granted it was never fun to be feeding fodder for the large groups before, but at least we had varied encounters as far as enemies went, now it just seems to match us up against the same deal over and over (frankly its not fun looking at the team lists in the beginning of a match and immediately think "Ok where do I sign to concede out of this waste of time", the main reason I don't play CW).

Upon hearing that only tiers 4 and 5 are separated from the rest, I too wondered "What's the point then?, isn't it basically same old same old?", it very well might be, and while I get that it might be something that gets adjusted/settled over numerous games, it sure isn't fun knowing/thinking "Well I'm going to have to get my @@@@ kicked in for a good long while before I'm allowed to have fun".

Frankly it would not be that bad, if at least the income was tolerable upon defeat (Here have taxi money), but it isn't, the difference of income between a loss and a win is like the difference between night and day.

I get it why they don't show us tiers, I mean hell, we cant see tiers right now, yet people are having massive ego wars over this stupidity already, I cant imagine the hell-storm that would take place if those numbers ever became view-able (public or otherwise).

I've yet to test it on solo queue, don't really know what impact it made there, but what I do know is that I started playing this game because of friends, friends who had the patience and willpower to teach me this game's mechanics and subtleties, which are unlike the vast majority of games out there.

Most of them have quit by now, and the few remaining frankly often times viewed this game as a chore to play with how the matchmaking works/worked, except now it might have been the final nail in the coffin for them.

I'm not a battle-tech loyalist, I never played tabletop, and have not played a mech-warrior game before this one, that's probably why a lot of things which **** off others have barely bothered me, but if I'm having trouble getting one friend to join me in a session, then that's the only reason I need to play other games and forget that this one exists.

I'll try solo queue, for a limited while, just to see how it goes, but if that goes just as poorly, then there's nothing left for me here.

[Nutlink]

Maybe I'm just imagining it, but I swear I've seen more stomps of 12-3 or less in the last 5 hours tonight than I did any given month last year.

[TWIAFU]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

Is suiciding still bannable? Cause I dont wanna be in this bracket apparently.

Yep.

So is non participation
Running out of bounds
AFK
Intentional DC

So everything you want to do to intentionally tank your score as to not face challenging opponents but to roll and not be rolled.

[Yokaiko]

Nutlink, on 22 August 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

Maybe I'm just imagining it, but I swear I've seen more stomps of 12-3 or less in the last 5 hours tonight than I did any given month last year.

Its about the same to me.

I haven't seen a string of close games that I can remember since before ELO.

[TWIAFU]

Kjudoon, on 21 August 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

I wont play group queue because of the high ratio of seal clubbing. We need to reinstall 5he 4 man limit there and leace cw a fee for all for large groups. Its what they say they want anyway.

But solo seal clubbing is ok...

So long as your the club and not the seal right?

This is a 12v12 TEAM game. You drop solo into a team, you have lost before your systems are even nominal.

Ever stop to think you are doing so bad because you are so bad at being a member of a team? No offense, but everything that gets you a Match Score comes from TEAMWORK. If you cannot be a team member while on a team and the other side can or will, they are going to win.

Just like it was under ELO. Just like it is now with PSR, except now you cannot be carried by others with ELO. You determine where you place by how well you do on a team. With respect, you are not doing good at being part of a team.

[Kjudoon]

I have no problem playing with a team. What I am sick of is the organized team versus pug garbage that's killed CW and now choked the Group queue to death because CW sucks so bad. Don't try and chuck me into the same insanity that consumed Mudhut where syncdrops and premades are the devil.

When you have a group, you are in a group averaged skill equation where good and bad players are hidden and you only have an illusion of balance. The larger the group, the bigger the possible imbalance. The smaller the group the smaller the imbalance. It's why Lances were not quite so bad because you could hide one or two good players, but not three or four.

On the same token, I will not support a derp team that's bound and determined to throw themselves on the swords of the enemy without thought. I was taught well. If everyone else was going to jump off a bridge, stay where you are and tell the police what idiots they were or at least walk away.

But I guess I will have to check out the group queue again maybe in a few more weeks because some stabilization may have occurred and be the cesspool it currently is.

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 August 2015 - 04:28 AM.