53 replies to this topic

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

El Bandito, on 21 August 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

Which is why I never wanted the Black Knight in the first place. If only people were smart enough ask the Flashman from PGI, instead of cashing in on looks, or nostalgia, then the IS could have had a great energy Heavy, to at least stand a chance.

Flashman. Yes. PGIPLZ

[cSand]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 21 August 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

I'm sorry If I seem like a sass-master but its 3 am. The argument of low mounted hardpoints on a mech that's had them since the 1980's baffles me. Not every robot that PGI gives us is going to be as amazing as the Timber A pods guys.

Yes and to add to that not everyone cares or needs the EZ mode mechs to have fun in this game. That said... Black Knight.. no JJs or ballistics is a deal breaker for me.


GIVE ME THE DAMN RAKSHASA PGI

[TheCharlatan]

I wasn't sure about buying the BK (already preordered up to the crab)... but now i will do it.
Good job PGI.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

I am looking forward all four of the resistance 2 mechs. Looks like PGI did a top notch job on the models

[MechaBattler]

Stefka Kerensky, on 22 August 2015 - 01:44 AM, said:

Just curious to see the quirks. It would need not only energy quirks, but also armor/int. ones, similar to Zeus.
Because if you want to shoot, you must expose the mech totally.
But again I prefer high hardpoint location, because behind a hill, you have "infinite armor" for free.

Of course. I'm sure the original designers would have done more mechs with high mounted weapons, if they had realized how advantageous it would be in an actual battle.

You hardly ever read in the books about them ridge humping or complaining about low slung weapons.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Of course. I'm sure the original designers would have done more mechs with high mounted weapons, if they had realized how advantageous it would be in an actual battle.

You hardly ever read in the books about them ridge humping or complaining about low slung weapons.

If you read any of the books, all the pilots are actually suicidal Rambo PUGs

[MechaBattler]

Aetes Nakatomi, on 22 August 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

If you read any of the books, all the pilots are actually suicidal Rambo PUGs

lol. Depends on the book. Some of the stuff they pull is ridiculous. Like downing a light with a hovercraft mounted machine gun.

[Strum Wealh]

El Bandito, on 21 August 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

Sigilum Sanctum, on 21 August 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

I'm sorry If I seem like a sass-master but its 3 am. The argument of low mounted hardpoints on a mech that's had them since the 1980's baffles me. Not every robot that PGI gives us is going to be as amazing as the Timber A pods guys.

Which is why I never wanted the Black Knight in the first place. If only people were smart enough ask the Flashman from PGI, instead of cashing in on looks, or nostalgia, then the IS could have had a great energy Heavy, to at least stand a chance.

"The primary weapons on the Flashman are three Selitex Radonic Large Lasers mounted in the right arm, left arm, and center torso. These are backed up by five Ichiba 3000 Medium Lasers, two mounted in either arm coaxial to the large lasers, in either side torso, and one of which is mounted in the rear of the 'Mech to ward off attackers. The Flashman also carries a Buzzsaw Anti-Missile System with one ton of ammo in the right torso to defend against missile attacks and a Zippo Mark X Anti-Personnel Flamer in the head deter infantry attacks."

Both the FLS-8K (the Star League era version) and the FLS-7K (the succession Wars version) have lower arm actuators, so the arms of the Flashman would have hung low like those of the Black Knight; the Flashman would NOT have JagerMech/UrbanMech-style high-mount arms.

Additionally, every illustration of the Flashman shows the torso-mounted lasers to be mounted at the 'Mech's waist level, with the CT-mounted Large Laser serving as the 'Mech's navel; like those of the Black Knight, the torso-mounted lasers (including the fifth Medium Laser, located in the Left Torso) of the Flashman would also be low-mounted.





The Flashman would have just been a Black Knight (including the "low-mounted hardpoints 'issue'") with a scaled-up UrbanMech torso to represent the upper body.

[Gas Guzzler]

Looks great, but what is with the ballistic???

[El Bandito]

Strum Wealh, on 22 August 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

The Flashman would have just been a Black Knight (including the "low-mounted hardpoints 'issue'") with a scaled-up UrbanMech torso to represent the upper body.

That's not true at all. The Flashman has FIVE high mounted energy slots. Four one the arms and one on the head. Compare that to mere two high energy mounts of the Black Knight.

See how high the arms are? Flashman > Black Knight. End of discussion.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 August 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

El Bandito, on 22 August 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

That's not true at all. The Flashman has FIVE high mounted energy slots. Four one the arms and one on the head.

See how high the arms are? Flashman > Black Knight. End of discussion.

You are wrong, El Bandito.

Those images merely show the 'Mech raising and extending its arms, in much he same way other 'Mechs are also shown to do so.







The only high-mount hardpoints that the Flashman has is the head-mounted energy hardpoint (containing the Flamer on the 8K and 7K models).

[TheArisen]

El Bandito, on 22 August 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

That's not true at all. The Flashman has FIVE high mounted energy slots. Four one the arms and one on the head. Compare that to mere two high energy mounts of the Black Knight.

See how high the arms are? Flashman > Black Knight. End of discussion.

Lots of mechs have art with their arms up.

The mechs that could be that T1 heavy are just around the corner. The Penetrator, 75t, ecm, high mounted weapons, JJ and a missile variant. The Falconer, 75t, comes with a 375, high mounted weapons, ballistic+energy, JJ. These are the mechs that could compete with the clans without quirks.

[TheArisen]

But in any case, we haven't had the BK in game yet so anyone who says the BK is ruined is being ridiculous.

[El Bandito]

Strum Wealh, on 22 August 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

You are wrong, El Bandito.

Those images merely show the 'Mech raising and extending its arms, in much he same way other 'Mechs are also shown to do so.







The only high-mount hardpoints that the Flashman has is the head-mounted energy hardpoint (containing the Flamer on the 8K and 7K models).

Those mechs' arms have elbow joints. Flashman's arms do not seem to have joints in that pic. Like the Blackjack. Hence high-mount.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 August 2015 - 09:13 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

El Bandito, on 22 August 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Those mechs' arms have joints. Flashman's arms do not seem to have joints in that pic. And we all know the BJ has high mounted arms.

Read the TROs.

The arms of the FLS-8K and FLS-7K have lower arm actuators (aka "elbow joints"), and the images we've both posted show the 'Mechs in both the arms-down position (which is how PGI would almost-undoubtedly implement the Flashman, just as they've done with every other 'Mech in MWO that has lower arm actuators) and the lifted-arms position (which is also used for several other 'Mechs in the TRO artwork, as shown previously).

[Juodas Varnas]

El Bandito, on 22 August 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Those mechs' arms have elbow joints. Flashman's arms do not seem to have joints in that pic. Like the Blackjack. Hence high-mount.

Well, the Dragon doesn't have a joint in the arm in all of the artworks either.
But it does in MWO. Unfortunately... It'd be much better without it.

[TheArisen]

So now that we've established that the Flash wouldn't be as awesome as the superhero, let's move onto mechs like the Penetrator & Falconer.

[Strum Wealh]

TheArisen, on 22 August 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

Lots of mechs have art with their arms up.

The mechs that could be that T1 heavy are just around the corner. The Penetrator, 75t, ecm, high mounted weapons, JJ and a missile variant. The Falconer, 75t, comes with a 375, high mounted weapons, ballistic+energy, JJ. These are the mechs that could compete with the clans without quirks.

Both the PTR-4D and the FLC-8R (the latter moreso than the former) would suffer from geometry-related issues in making the translation to MWO.

The TROs list both the Penetrator and the Falconer as having lower arm actuators in both arms (with the primary weapons being housed there), with the torso-mounted weapons (in both cases, clusters of medium-sized lasers) being mounted well below the cockpit.
However, both 'Mechs (in theory) would have benefitted brom beinglow-seared designs with torso sections that are relatively flat (vertically), in exchange for being relatively long (longitudinally) and/or wide (laterally).

The Penetrator is able to (appear to) be rather squat, due to its strange leg design:


Also, if we look at the Falconer, it doesn't really have a torso joint:


Like the King Crab, Black Hawk, Jenner, Uller, and Puma before them, the MWO rendition of the Falconer would likely have a more-conventional torso joint forced onto it, and the body would have to sit fairly high and/or be very long in order to prevent clipping issues with the iconic low-slung arms; these changes would remove the squat nature of the design that would/should serve as one of its main advantages.

The Penetrator would likely suffer less, other than that it is iconic for having relatively long legs, which is likely to result in a MWO rendition being rather tall after being given more conventional (and, frankly, plausible) reverse-joint legs.

[DAYLEET]

TheArisen, on 22 August 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

Possible hero variant?

My thought exactly.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Strum Wealh, on 22 August 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

Both the PTR-4D and the FLC-8R (the latter moreso than the former) would suffer from geometry-related issues in making the translation to MWO.

The TROs list both the Penetrator and the Falconer as having lower arm actuators in both arms (with the primary weapons being housed there), with the torso-mounted weapons (in both cases, clusters of medium-sized lasers) being mounted well below the cockpit.
However, both 'Mechs (in theory) would have benefitted brom beinglow-seared designs with torso sections that are relatively flat (vertically), in exchange for being relatively long (longitudinally) and/or wide (laterally).

The Penetrator is able to (appear to) be rather squat, due to its strange leg design:


Also, if we look at the Falconer, it doesn't really have a torso joint:


Like the King Crab, Black Hawk, Jenner, Uller, and Puma before them, the MWO rendition of the Falconer would likely have a more-conventional torso joint forced onto it, and the body would have to sit fairly high and/or be very long in order to prevent clipping issues with the iconic low-slung arms; these changes would remove the squat nature of the design that would/should serve as one of its main advantages.

The Penetrator would likely suffer less, other than that it is iconic for having relatively long legs, which is likely to result in a MWO rendition being rather tall after being given more conventional (and, frankly, plausible) reverse-joint legs.

While still a bit funky the newer art of the Penetrator has much more plausible legs and the 'Mech itself is quite tall. The earlier image is likely of it bobbing down and taking a step.

The Falconer is the opposite of high mounted and those legs, yikes.