22 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

In a recent match on the new Forest Colony map (so this could be more so a map issue, but I've seen it on other maps too), I had a problem maintaining a lock on an enemy mech that I "strongly presume" was using the Radar deprivation module.

For the record, I know what the module does, and I don't mind it when it's doing what it's suppose to do. However, I kept losing locks on mechs with the module, even when they remained in plain line of sight and I could clearly see them (and no, ECM did not come into play). They kept flickering in and out of my target lock. Typically as soon as a leaf or tree limb covered the exact middle of their mech (kinda like the cables on Terra Therma doing the same, even though you can still see 90% of the target).

Just to inform.

[Flipshot21]

I have the same issue, can't seem to stay lock on at all after the last couple of patches.

[Tesunie]

It's been a problem for me since Radar Dep came out. I can clearly see my target, but the lock flickers horribly for no reason at all. Gets tiresome to send LRMs into the air, only to find I blind fired them, or missed completely despite eating their direct fired weapons while sitting in plain sight. (Even without LRMs, it's still annoying to have their information blink like it's a strobe light.)

[tokumboh]

I have noticed this too, I put it down to being in the lowest tier (yes II admit I suck) but I have had lots of it on occasion I have been in plain sight and decided not to lock on put them in the reticle and fire which seemed to work ok if they're stood still

I think that it is difficult to please everybody since more people want to brawl and snipe in this game than give support. hopefully the new point system will help even as a noob, I make sure I have UAV loaded since I get a lot of XP just from other people doing damage on my UAV sometimes after I have bought it (well actually a lot of times, but hey as I said I suck)

[B L O O D W I T C H]

mount target decay modules, they help against the flicker.

[Acierocolotl]

Is that what that is?

I use Radar Deprivation constantly. While scouting, I've had the "you've been locked" flash and chime go off repeatedly, like 20 or 30 times in a row, and I've had this happen a few times now. I thought somebody was just constantly spamming lock to mark my location to his team.

[Tesunie]

LOADED, on 23 August 2015 - 02:44 AM, said:

mount target decay modules, they help against the flicker.

Oh, I know, but even Target Decay Module doesn't completely counter (as in, bring decay back to normal decay values) the Radar Dep. I also shouldn't "need" one module just to be able to keep a solid lock on someone clearly in sight of me (without ECM) and whom is able to shoot me with direct fire weapons (and not be in cover).

Also, Advanced Target Decay is an expensive module. Though it is helpful, I don't have very many of them (yet).


I'd also like to point out, when a module becomes the "must have" module (just like Seismic Sensor use to be), it probably should be looked into for a balance pass. My thoughts on modules is it should be a tough choice on which one to take, as they should all be (relatively speaking) of equal strengths, with just different effects.

[Kmieciu]

Tesunie, on 23 August 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Oh, I know, but even Target Decay Module doesn't completely counter (as in, bring decay back to normal decay values) the Radar Dep. I also shouldn't "need" one module just to be able to keep a solid lock on someone clearly in sight of me (without ECM) and whom is able to shoot me with direct fire weapons (and not be in cover).

4 214 posts on the forums and you just found out that LRMs are trash tier weapons?
Stop using them entirely. That's the only way PGI will notice something is wrong with them.

LRMs should be fire&forget, just like streaks. ECM should not prevent locks, it should only increase the time to lock.
Before those changes are made no serious player will use them. Instead, take 6xERML and pump out 42 damage from 450 meters away, then step behind an obstacle and watch LRMs hit the dirt around you.

[Tesunie]

Kmieciu, on 23 August 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

4 214 posts on the forums and you just found out that LRMs are trash tier weapons?
Stop using them entirely. That's the only way PGI will notice something is wrong with them.

LRMs should be fire&forget, just like streaks. ECM should not prevent locks, it should only increase the time to lock.
Before those changes are made no serious player will use them. Instead, take 6xERML and pump out 42 damage from 450 meters away, then step behind an obstacle and watch LRMs hit the dirt around you.

Sorry. I like my LRMs. I do rather well with them. They aren't "trash tier" weapons, and if you stop using them, then PGI loses all information on how they are preforming. It's almost like saying if you know something is broken than abuse it till they get the hint and change it (or stop using it completely so they will get the hint and change it...).

By playing the weapons, and providing feedback, PGI gathers information and formulates possible solutions. I wont argue with you about ECM, as I agree. It does too much right now. It should either increase time to lock OR provide the current lock stealth. Not both. I don't believe LRMs should be fire and forget though, as there is a skill about having to maintain locks.

PS: I also use plenty of direct fire weapons. LRMs are just one of many weapon systems I use in the game. I use PPCs, lasers of all kinds, ACs, Gauss, MGs and even flamers too. If it's a weapon in the game, I've used it to at least some extent.

(If this sounds rude, I'm just way overly tired right now. It's not intentional, and just a result of a lack of focus. So no rudeness is meant.)

[Kmieciu]

Tesunie, on 23 August 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

PS: I also use plenty of direct fire weapons. LRMs are just one of many weapon systems I use in the game. I use PPCs, lasers of all kinds, ACs, Gauss, MGs and even flamers too. If it's a weapon in the game, I've used it to at least some extent.

After every balance change, I try do assess every weapon with an open mind. For example: clan UACs used to be pretty worthless, except boating UAC5s on the Direwolf. But with the recent changes (faster, shorter bursts, more ammo for uac10, -30% jamm chance omnipods), they've become a great asset. A cool weapon to have besides lasers.

LRMs on the other hand, are only dependable if there's a UAV over the enemy team, and no high cover to hide behind. And that UAV costs 40K C-Bills and is countered with one laser blast. When I run a Hellbringer with ECM&radar derp, you have close to 0 chances to hit me with LRMs. And I can hit you with my lasers time and time again. 6xERML & 31 DHS. It's like playing Operation Wolf - just point, click your mouse and kill the enemy.

Edited by Kmieciu, 24 August 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[Tesunie]

Kmieciu, on 24 August 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

LRMs on the other hand, are only dependable if there's a UAV over the enemy team,..

You see, I have a different experience with LRMs. They aren't the best weapon in the game, I'll admit, but at the same time they aren't the worst. I have fairly good results with LRMs, even with ECM in it's current implementation. However, I don't always use them as just a damaging weapon.

I find LRMs to be a great utility weapon. Between their indirect fire options for uncoordinated team fire support (you need to tell me anything for me to focus fire on your target with you, even if I can't see them), a scare weapon (everyone moves when they hear "Incoming Missile" warning), and/or even as a lure (everyone, despite saying that they don't fear LRMs, blah blah, always seems to make them a priority target and hunt down the LRM user), etc. It's this utility aspect that I find LRMs to really be a nice weapon. So many different ways to use them, that it can be worth taking some.

I also wouldn't be saying "close to 0 chances to hit". Some of us are very good with LRMs. Of course, some of us don't boat them either, as I always have enough other weapons to be able to still deal damage directly if I have to. The most I've boated them are on my new Thor/Summoner B, which has 3 ALRM10s and 2 SRM4s. That Thor build is a bit more risk/reward than I'd like, but seen as I've actually soloed killed an assault mech with direct line of sight (back then it had 3 LRM15s with the SRM4s)... It can be useful, and can still be deadly depending upon how it's used and what your opponent does.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Kmieciu, on 23 August 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

4 214 posts on the forums and you just found out that LRMs are trash tier weapons?
Stop using them entirely. That's the only way PGI will notice something is wrong with them.

LRMs should be fire&forget, just like streaks. ECM should not prevent locks, it should only increase the time to lock.
Before those changes are made no serious player will use them. Instead, take 6xERML and pump out 42 damage from 450 meters away, then step behind an obstacle and watch LRMs hit the dirt around you.

No offense but if anything is broken in this game it's the Er-Mlas.

[Kmieciu]

LOADED, on 24 August 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

No offense but if anything is broken in this game it's the Er-Mlas.

That's why I pack a few on each and every Clan mech I own.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Kmieciu, on 24 August 2015 - 10:59 PM, said:

That's why I pack a few on each and every Clan mech I own.

like almost every clanner does, including myself.

[Tesunie]

Medium Lasers (Clan ER or standard IS) are in lore suppose to be the base weapon. So, I guess it should be expected to see them commonly used?

I feel it isn't so much the CERML that is OP, but probably our heat scale in the game that's a little off, granting laser weapons additional strength because of it. (Among other possible points that could be made.)

[Luscious Dan]

Tesunie, on 25 August 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Medium Lasers (Clan ER or standard IS) are in lore suppose to be the base weapon. So, I guess it should be expected to see them commonly used?

I feel it isn't so much the CERML that is OP, but probably our heat scale in the game that's a little off, granting laser weapons additional strength because of it. (Among other possible points that could be made.)

It's not the weapon itself, it's the nature of first person shooter versus tabletop game. On the tabletop, multiple small weapons randomize which location they hit separately. In game, they all focus on (more or less) the same location, concentrating their damage more like PPC/large bore autocannon/gauss but for much lower tonnage.

[Kmieciu]

Luscious Dan, on 25 August 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

In game, they all focus on (more or less) the same location, concentrating their damage more like PPC/large bore autocannon/gauss but for much lower tonnage.

6xERML should be called "the finger of God".

[DAEDALOS513]

Tesunie, on 22 August 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

In a recent match on the new Forest Colony map (so this could be more so a map issue, but I've seen it on other maps too), I had a problem maintaining a lock on an enemy mech that I "strongly presume" was using the Radar deprivation module.

For the record, I know what the module does, and I don't mind it when it's doing what it's suppose to do. However, I kept losing locks on mechs with the module, even when they remained in plain line of sight and I could clearly see them (and no, ECM did not come into play). They kept flickering in and out of my target lock. Typically as soon as a leaf or tree limb covered the exact middle of their mech (kinda like the cables on Terra Therma doing the same, even though you can still see 90% of the target).

Just to inform.

I have a feeling you are seeing the enemy through invisible walls. Haven't you ever tried firing on an enemy at range only to discover they are protected by an invisible shield? This is a wall or structure that at certain angles/distances becomes invisible but weapon fire cannot penetrate.

The flickering of your target lock may have been a friendly mech gaining/losing target lock 'for you' from a differrent area of the map.

[Tesunie]

DAEDALOS513, on 26 August 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

I have a feeling you are seeing the enemy through invisible walls. Haven't you ever tried firing on an enemy at range only to discover they are protected by an invisible shield? This is a wall or structure that at certain angles/distances becomes invisible but weapon fire cannot penetrate.

The flickering of your target lock may have been a friendly mech gaining/losing target lock 'for you' from a differrent area of the map.

Could be invisible terrain, if the mech wasn't shooting back at me with their direct fire weapons the whole time. I also had complete visual sight on the mech (hence we could exchange direct weapon's fire with no problem). However, his lock signal kept flickering in and out so I wasn't able to maintain a lock.

Which I might want to add, the guy was moving slowly, through open terrain. He wasn't even trying to hide behind cover, and a small tree would block his shoulder and suddenly I lose lock till his entire mech was around the tree again. If any portion of the mech is covered with Radar Dep, it seems as though you lose lock. Even if you can see them clearly still and exchange direct fire with them. I've even done this with TAG, and still had it flicker or refuse to lock, because I can't see almost all of their mechs.

I've seen this issue for a while, but the new Forest Colony map appears to have it happened even more often, for whatever reason.

[Widowmaker1981]

Tesunie, on 23 August 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Oh, I know, but even Target Decay Module doesn't completely counter (as in, bring decay back to normal decay values) the Radar Dep. I also shouldn't "need" one module just to be able to keep a solid lock on someone clearly in sight of me (without ECM) and whom is able to shoot me with direct fire weapons (and not be in cover).

Also, Advanced Target Decay is an expensive module. Though it is helpful, I don't have very many of them (yet).


I'd also like to point out, when a module becomes the "must have" module (just like Seismic Sensor use to be), it probably should be looked into for a balance pass. My thoughts on modules is it should be a tough choice on which one to take, as they should all be (relatively speaking) of equal strengths, with just different effects.

If you are using LRMs, target decay has always been required. Radar Deprivation just made it.. even more required. That +1.5 seconds of lock time after losing LOS is too valuable to an LRM boat not to get.

I actually think that what they need to do is buff the effectiveness of unused modules like Hill Climb and Improved Gyros. Just increase the magnitude of their effect so they become a tempting alternative compared to Seismic or Radar Deprivation. Modules are limited by slots so it wont make mechs overpowered compared to now, just more varied.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 28 August 2015 - 11:34 AM.