62 replies to this topic

[Murphy7]

Buddah, I get the frustration. But I would argue that the same problem exists if you were on a three hour winning streak as well. We don't see as many complaints about that.

Someone in our unit who shall remain Canadian has had a terrible run of matches in the current PSR system, and he is on the Tier 1/2 line. It happens, it is frustrating as all get out, but it has been known to happen.

In response to another comment in this thread - match maker is routinely taking a few minutes to build a solo queue match for me, regardless of weight class of mech I drop in. I think a lot of people have been frustrated, and the consequently smaller pool of players available to match maker has contributed to a more erratic quality of play. But I am low Tier 3, erratic just might be my tier.

[Karl Streiger]

Well the ranking alone is only half the rent.
The MM has to save the outcomes of each battle for each player. After several lost battles it should start to increase the opportunity for a win, On the other hand it should decrease the chance to win the next fights after each victory.

For example - I drop in T4
12 vs 12 T4.... you lose
nothing happens
next
12 T4(including me) vs 10 T4 + 2T3 - loss
next
11T4 +1T3 vs 10T4+1T2+1T3 - loss
next
2T4 + 5T3 + 4T2 +1T1 vs 5T4+4T3+3T2 - victory....
...
of course to have better players on your side of the MM doesn't allow you to win automatically but if the PSR of the players are correct calculated it should work.

The drawback would be an increased wait time - so there should be options to:
-fight in free for all matches (no server, no game mode, no weight class, no tier restrictions) -your tier is not effecte
-ranked battles - with a MM and a victory guarantee
-ladder battles - 12 vs 12 only (map veto; game mode veto, weight class restrictions)

[Kodyn]

One thing that I think everyone tends to forget about any MM system is that it can't really account for things like someone having a bad day, or a Tier 1 player being groggy because it's his first few matches of the day, and he just woke up, etc.

If a match looks balanced to the MM due to tiers, weights, whatever else, but the "better" players in match aren't playing at their best(half asleep, drunk, leveling new mechs, etc), the whole algorithm can be thrown out the window.

Sometimes stuff just happens.

[Erkki]

Even 20 games is still a small sample. Even if you do your best, in pugland, winning or losing can be like tossing a coin.

Its possible to win or lose 15+ games in a streak. I've seen both... Randomness and even spread are two different things.

Edited by Erkki, 29 September 2015 - 04:23 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 August 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

So you drop a tier? Ive lost literally every single game Ive played in the past 3 hours

this is pretty intolerable

You expect a different result when you do the same thing over and over?

Still surprised that your side - no teams in solo queue - nascars on Caustic?

Shocked your side looses when they stop moving and waits to be rolled over?

Is it still a surprise to you that your side scatters when the enemy appears?

Still clamoring that ECM is OP when the enemy has it and none of your side can be bothered to use it or equip BAP?

When your riding on the short bus you cannot be all that surprised that everyone is wearing helmets and licking the glass.

[Throat Punch]

I've been having the opposite problem, I've been winning too much with really good match scores and quickly am climbing out of T5. Ah well. I guess I will eventually plateau out and end up in the tier I was meant to be in. It will have been fun while it lasted.

Edited by Mors Draco, 29 September 2015 - 05:10 AM.

[Reptilizer]

Nightingale27, on 22 August 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

There are more ways to contribute to the victory than the list of stuff that would show up on the match scores.

For example, squirreling. Luring away enemies so that they do nothing for their team for the next minute or more.
Also, helping the team over the chat. Offering sound advice could help a lot. Commanding is included in this set. Misinformation over the global chat works as well (though rarely. at least for me.). If you think this is useless, well, then why the hell are strategies, tactics, and subterfuge constantly used by the militaries of the real world?

As the only way the system could recognize these contributions is thorough the fact that a victory occurred, the new system isn't as stupid as you think.
PGI doesn't screw up everything, you know.

Sarcastic much???

I will just pretend that you were serious though:
The fact that the system registers such a contribution "only" via making a win more likely is a sad fact in itself for me.

If "squirreling" actually gave a decent matchscore, this might be viable.
As of now, you perhaps secure a win for the team, but profit the least from it due to your abysmal matchscore when compared with the damagedealers/solokillers.
Since i lack a heart of gold, dishing out damage is the way to go...

[sycocys]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 August 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

So you drop a tier? Ive lost literally every single game Ive played in the past 3 hours

this is pretty intolerable

Well at least now you can understand the pure frustration I was having with this system as the MM lined me up with massive strings of losses. Sorry it had to happen to you - the only way out is taking away someone else's choice of a heavy or assault so you can put up 800+ damage despite your MM draws.

[Novakaine]

Deathlike, on 22 August 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

Here's a silly question...

Have you been trying to use LRMs in every match?

If so, why are you shocked at the results?

Hey brother, LRM's carried me up a tier

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Belphegore, on 29 September 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:

Buddah, i tried playing for around 4 hours yesterday in solo queue and it was just stomp after stomp after stomp, to the point i just closed the game in disgust. That, plus the fact i'm getting ridiculous queue times over the last few days.... I'm on the cusp of hitting tier 3 i dunno if that makes much difference.

I AM tier 3 and same

TWIAFU, on 29 September 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

You expect a different result when you do the same thing over and over?

Doesnt that explain this whole game?

[Tarl Cabot]

Belphegore, on 29 September 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:

Buddah, i tried playing for around 4 hours yesterday in solo queue and it was just stomp after stomp after stomp, to the point i just closed the game in disgust. That, plus the fact i'm getting ridiculous queue times over the last few days.... I'm on the cusp of hitting tier 3 i dunno if that makes much difference.

KHETTI, on 29 September 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Just wondering how many of you find a match under 60 secs? Its unusual for me to get a match under 3-5 minutes.

Based on post times and queue times listed, the PSR part of the match making is practically out the door due to population. Though solo/group queue was not mentioned, getting a group drop would even be rougher. So in those drops there is likely a mix of all tiers. All it takes is for one or two to step up and call the drop and for most of that co-opt to follow the calls.

For those who have had the losing streaks, was communication practically nil? VOIP may be difficult due to language barriers, and the battlechat definitely needs an overhaul.

On MM, has PGI posted that one side is filled first then the other side is selected or is it done in sets (lance)? That is one thing that always bugged me. It would be like being selected captain and if you win the toss you get to pick your team first.

[Johnny Z]

Lets hope 2 man groups are allowed in the regular queue some time soon. I think that is the problem rather than the match maker. Also any balance problems will hopefully be improved with this upcoming rebalnce thing. These all work to make having fair matches tough to get at times.

Being teir 3 and not running competitive mechs makes alot of sense actually. But its unlikely to get tier related matches in the group queue all the time or maybe its even rare.

Also if I understand correctly a long time player wont ever drop to tier 4. Like ever. Tier 4 is newbie lands. Tier 5 being a saftey for disconnectors or bad ping or bad luck on starting matches or maybe a player entirely new to this sort of thing, I am guessing.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 September 2015 - 05:59 AM.

[J0anna]

There's a reddit post (I can't find atm) where Paul said it takes about 2500 games to go up a tier. Since it's easier to advance tiers than to drop them, I suspect 3 hours of even bad losses won't make a dent in your tier.

When I get into a rut like that, I normally start looking at what mechs the opponents are bringing. If I see a slew of meta mechs, I swap over to meta mechs myself. Another thing to do is get out of the solo que and move to the group que, as even losses there are normally more fun.

[Reptilizer]

Johnny Z, on 29 September 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

*snip*
Also if I understand correctly a long time player wont ever drop to tier 4. Like ever. Tier 4 is newbie lands. Tier 5 being a saftey for disconnectors or bad ping or bad luck on starting matches or maybe a player entirely new to this sort of thing, I am guessing.

Perhaps it will be like this in the future.
It is not the case now and this is a problem as far as i understood the intentions behind introducing the tiers and making them visible.

As of the seeding, other factors than "number of matches played" determined in which tier you were seeded.
Namely win/loss and kill/death.
So in the moment the lower tiers are quite heterogenuos. New players mixed with veterans of a few thousand drops. Some of the vets are just bad shots or c-bill farming. Some of those veterans actually know how to play and meta quite well. They do not do so all the time however. They often run unconventional builds, like to rambo/troll or hunt achievements (e.g. Bad company...). Not the ideal role models for new players.
I also doubt heavily that the occasional c-bill farmer will rise in tier anytime soon.
So the new players meet some very good pilots without captain tryhard attitudes in the lower tiers and get ripped to shreds. They also will not learn much from them except that damage is king if you want to leave the underhive.
I do not really see the educational aspect or any advantage to ELO to be honest...

[Cementi]

I have never experianced this however my advice would be if this is true then maybe try actually leading a few drops maybe it would help.

Not likely I know though.I had to take a break yesterday after 4 consecutive games where I reported flanks occuring and our team did nothing to respond to it. Fortunately my tier 5s were better than their tier 5s and we won 4 out of the 5 but *shrug* still frustrated me to have my scouting ignored.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

no matter how i try, Im low T5 'bar not moving anywhere.

3 mins old screen.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

next match in a row....





Wht do I have to do more ? kill 12 mechs in row, for 0.0001 mm in PSR ? IN T5 ? you sane PGI ? WTF.

[Throat Punch]

Titannium, on 29 September 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

no matter how i try, Im low T5 'bar not moving anywhere.

Brother, I don't know what you are doing, and I wish I could offer advice, but you will get out of T5 if you work at it. That bar will move unless you really belong in Tier 5. I mean here is my bar from last tuesday, and then from today and I haven't even been trying. Just pugging it up in the solo queue doing my thing. You can and will get out of tier 5 eventually.

[Lightfoot]

When you start losing you go to Mechlab. Build something that wins. Mechlab is part of the challenge of MechWarrior. Some would say the best challenge of all.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Lightfoot, on 29 September 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

When you start losing you go to Mechlab. Build something that wins. Mechlab is part of the challenge of MechWarrior. Some would say the best challenge of all.

like... 5 kills myself are not working you say ? uh...