46 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Skarlock, on 26 August 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

The same could really be said of any clan mech though.

Nightshade24, on 26 August 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

the "ands" are part of it... however it isn't the first mech.

Spider and Raven does also fit those bills as well...
Raven has more firepower, faster, more durability, better profile and hitbox. etc- basicly the main problem with it is no JJ.

Not actually, Skarlock. No Clan 'mech to date has the combination of firepower, mobility, ECM, and etc. It is true that other Clan 'mechs have extensive quirks - the Adder, for example. But while the Myst Lynx had limited weapon options in practice, and the Adder played like a pocket Medium (including speed,) the Arctic Cheetah is the first true combat light in the Clan arsenal. Only slightly slower than competing mechs like the Firestarter, Jenner, or Spider, the Cheetah outclasses each of those 'mechs in at least one category other than raw speed.

You can be more efficient with a Firestarter via pulse lasers, it's true - if you're just looking at time to overheat. But if you use the metamechs comp tier for comparison (I know, but it's a standardized source,) you'll see that yes, the Firestarter does have longer time till overheat. The Arctic Cheetah, on the other hand, exceeds that Firestarter's DPS by almost 50%. And the Cheetah has ECM, and more jump jets, and stronger legs, and stronger torsos, and...

Other 'mechs stand out from the crowd, to be sure. The Raven is notoriously hard to kill, if only because of its geometry, and the Huginn particularly does insane damage (why they didn't touch any Hero 'mechs in The Nerfening is beyond me.) The Spider, I'm not sold on. You're paying for the Spider's advantages against other lights with reduced firepower; this spider pilot does not like to go up against Firestarters or Arctic Cheetahs - and I think I do ok with my Spider.

Regardless, I wholeheartedly agree that the new balance pass needs to be implemented and allowed to run live for a while before we start laying about with the nerfbat - my only real concern here is to yank the leash a bit on people who don't want to believe the ACH is as strong as it actually is.

[Kmieciu]

Void Angel, on 28 August 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Raven is notoriously hard to kill, if only because of its geometry, and the Huginn particularly does insane damage (why they didn't touch any Hero 'mechs in The Nerfening is beyond me.) The Spider, I'm not sold on. You're paying for the Spider's advantages against other lights with reduced firepower; this spider pilot does not like to go up against Firestarters or Arctic Cheetahs -

Raven is quite easy to kill, actually. It has a massive side profile, therefore it has to poke from mid-ling range without torso twisting. Huggin has the best raw DPS, but cannot spread damage when fighting another light mech. Spider is extremely easy to leg, with no structure quirks and enlarged hitboxes. Jenner is easier to core than a Locust.
Even the Firestarters cannot just run into enemy blob and come out alive. I have noticed a large number of ST-kills despite having great hitboxes. The HSR fixes made is a lot less tanky.
But the AHC is just something else. It's more durable than a STD engine Spider.

[Void Angel]

Oh, no argument on the ACH - though I think you're underestimating the Raven a bit. If it goes into evasion mode, it can be really hard to hit the same spot twice because of its leg geometry. The ornithiod legs move more than humanoid legs, and in odder ways; it used to be really bad, until PGI cleaned up its hitboxes back in the day.

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 31 August 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

it used to be really bad, until PGI cleaned up its hitboxes back in the day.

I believe "cleaned up" was providing overly large invisible hit boxes to the Raven's legs (at least). I don't recall them fixing this since, but it would be nice if it was corrected back to hitboxes that matched the leg geometry. (If it hasn't already been done.)

[Void Angel]

When a Raven will happily go toe to toe with something half again its size as long as that something is primarily laser armed, something is wrong with its hitboxes. The Raven was too hard to shoot in the legs, and spread damage too well, and while some players complained and loudly proclaimed that they were dropping the chassis, the 3L still remained a top-line Light - until the advent of the Firestarter.

PS: And by "toe to toe", I mean staring it down, while walking backwards and swerving side to side. I wish I were making it up.

[Wildstreak]

Given the Mechs I see in the OP pic, this must have been a Private Match so the fault is having one where people take whatever they want.

Get players with some honesty about balancing by weight or something.

[Void Angel]

It could be a normal match if two teams from the same unit ended up on the team by chance - unlikely as that is.

In any case, they've tried balancing by weight - even with the fudge factor of going by weight class, players would not play enough of each weight class to distribute the 'mechs evenly. Of course, the "solution" to this issue proposed by the Professionally Angry was to "just" implement sweeping, unspecified changes in the game, like "make role warfare more important."

In any case, regardless of the provenance of that one screen shot, the ACH overall is becoming a problem.