49 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I feel that buffing the ammo to double the TT values would help the ballistics and missiles. Currently Ammo values are buffed by anywhere between 20% and 50% while armor and internals are doubled. This means that given a gauss rifle you could fire an entire ton of ammo into an Atlas's frontal CT and not kill it unless it has over 36 rear CT armor. TT value for a Gauss rifle states it has 8 shots per ton, doubling this would mean you'd have 16 shots, 240 total damage compared to 150, more than enough to kill an Atlas.

This wouldn't raise the time to kill per weapon, but it might free up some tonnage allowing for more weaponry. It might also reduce the amount of laser boats running around as ballistics and missiles would be even more viable. If anything we'd get a new meta until its nerfed again, or we might actually see more diverse builds since people don't have to spent multiple tons of ammo on each gun for each kill.

Edited by Dakota1000, 25 August 2015 - 03:55 AM.

[Raggedyman]

Dakota1000, on 25 August 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

This wouldn't raise the time to kill per weapon

if I had twice the ammo I would be taking twice as many shots so with that much extra ordinance flying around people are going to get hit a lot more.
Don't know how much quicker people would fall over, but I can only see TTK going down from such a change

Edited by Raggedyman, 25 August 2015 - 04:01 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dakota1000, on 25 August 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

I feel that buffing the ammo to double the TT values would help the ballistics and missiles. Currently Ammo values are buffed by anywhere between 20% and 50% while armor and internals are doubled. This means that given a gauss rifle you could fire an entire ton of ammo into an Atlas's frontal CT and not kill it unless it has over 36 rear CT armor. TT value for a Gauss rifle states it has 8 shots per ton, doubling this would mean you'd have 16 shots, 240 total damage compared to 150, more than enough to kill an Atlas.

This wouldn't raise the time to kill per weapon, but it might free up some tonnage allowing for more weaponry. It might also reduce the amount of laser boats running around as ballistics and missiles would be even more viable. If anything we'd get a new meta until its nerfed again, or we might actually see more diverse builds since people don't have to spent multiple tons of ammo on each gun for each kill.

More weapons less TTK. Just sayin'

[Felbombling]

Doubling the ammunition bins over table top values would be great and help stop boating to a degree, but that extra tonnage has to go somewhere, and right now it would generally mean more or larger weapons, instead of where it needs to go... into extra heat sinks or equipment like jump jets or an Active Probe. The space just isn't there in the chassis.

The problem is really a combination of the heat system and the ammo per ton and pin-point convergence and rate of fire and everything else. The game mechanics are really messed up and would require a full overhaul to fix, from the ground up. It is amazing that the game actually plays fairly well, but it has taken a bunch of band-**** to get us there in the form of quirks and ghost heat, etc.

[El Bandito]

Currently ammo is 150% of TT value. I would suggest 175% value as a compromise. After all ammo based weapons are already heavy--for the IS side at least. Mayhaps all ammos are 175% for IS only?

Edited by El Bandito, 25 August 2015 - 05:42 AM.

[L3mming2]

i am all for a ammo raze

[Rhaythe]

Ammo is fine. Stop squandering it by shooting every pixel that moves.

[Cyborne Elemental]

If its a tiny ammount, but they really don't need it tbh..

AC-2 80 rnd ton
AC-5 35 rnd ton
AC-10 20 rnd ton is perfect IMO
AC-20 8?

Edited by Mister D, 25 August 2015 - 08:01 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

no thanks. I prefer to have to aim a little.

[FlipOver]

Instead of all that, why don't just get rid of inst-convergence?

[Night Thastus]

I agree. If they doubled armor/structure values, THEN added quirks on top of that, it makes ballistics really useless.

In the lore, 1-2 tons of ammo was sufficient in battle. I've really rarely seen builds that carry more than one, honestly.

[Bishop Steiner]

FlipOver, on 25 August 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

Instead of all that, why don't just get rid of inst-convergence?

amen, brother, preach it.

[Rhaythe]

Night Thastus, on 25 August 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

I agree. If they doubled armor/structure values, THEN added quirks on top of that, it makes ballistics really useless.

Hardly. Negligible heat in exchange for limited ammunition. It's a trade-off.

And as Bish said earlier - aim better'er. Shoot for red spots. Ammo is fine. We don't need to buff that and give mechs even MORE room to pack more weapons in. These are mechs. Your weapons fire isn't supposed to resemble Battlestar Galactica's fighter suppression system.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rhaythe, on 25 August 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

Hardly. Negligible heat in exchange for limited ammunition. It's a trade-off.

And as Bish said earlier - aim better'er. Shoot for red spots. Ammo is fine. We don't need to buff that and give mechs even MORE room to pack more weapons in. These are mechs. Your weapons fire isn't supposed to resemble Battlestar Galactica's fighter suppression system.

though I freely admit the Galactica's FSS was pretty darn barney.

[L3mming2]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 August 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

no thanks. I prefer to have to aim a little.

we all now about your superhuman aim skills... but for the rest of us mortals it would help close the gap between lasers and ballistics if we got a litle more ammo

Rhaythe, on 25 August 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

Hardly. Negligible heat in exchange for limited ammunition. It's a trade-off.

And as Bish said earlier - aim better'er. Shoot for red spots. Ammo is fine. We don't need to buff that and give mechs even MORE room to pack more weapons in. These are mechs. Your weapons fire isn't supposed to resemble Battlestar Galactica's fighter suppression system.

so hardly negligible heat? 7 heat for 20 damage thats only 30% less than some lasers ...

edit: the ac2's heat vs damage ....

Edited by L3mming2, 25 August 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[RoboPatton]

IDK about double... seems a bit much. Maybe +25%-50%.

[Cyborne Elemental]

5% tops.. TOPS.

[Lugh]

The solution is an AMMO consumable, like the cooling pod, instantly get 6 rounds back, and then 4 more rounds over 4 seconds or something like that.

That way they are ~ equivalent.

[Joseph Mallan]

Why do people want to make ammo a negligible drawback?

[Lugh]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 August 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Why do people want to make ammo a negligible drawback?

1)Because the BT tonnage of the AC weapons doesn't make sense unless those weapons also included a bunch of ammo.
2) BECAUSE DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

A better question is: why the laser meta is so afraid of the other two weapon systems being able to compete?