13 replies to this topic

[Legend_]

This review here got me thinking - Would you rather PGI used this new standard they've reached in map design for creating 'new' maps, or would you rather they continued to go through the current maps to revamp and revitalise them?

[spectralthundr]

chiXu, on 27 August 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

This review here got me thinking - Would you rather PGI used this new standard they've reached in map design for creating 'new' maps, or would you rather they continued to go through the current maps to revamp and revitalise them?

I think getting all the rest of the older maps up to the new standard makes more sense in keeping some sort of even level of fidelity and size across all maps. Then they can move forward with new stuff.

[White Bear 84]

spectralthundr, on 27 August 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

I think getting all the rest of the older maps up to the new standard makes more sense in keeping some sort of even level of fidelity and size across all maps. Then they can move forward with new stuff.

pls just do something so Caustic is not the constant nascar race it is...

[Legend_]

Even if that means managing to get a map out once every 6ish weeks? (How long was it between River City and Forest Colony?)

Maybe the process will speed up as they grow more accustomed to all of the tools they're using, I'd love see all of the old maps brought up to standard but at the same time I know there are a lot of people who will want totally new things coming in that sense.

[Alistair Winter]

I guess so.

River City and Forest Colony had to be updated, because they were so tiny. The same is true for Frozen City and Canyon Network. They're just a bit too small, leading to predictable gameplay.

Then there's the other group of maps, like Alpine and Terra Therma. Those maps are big enough, but they're not very well balanced. The question then becomes: can we expect these maps to be properly balanced now that PGI has more experience? The answer is no. Unequivocally, no.

If you look at the progression from 2012 to 2015, there's not really a lot of progress in terms of balanced maps that offer interesting strategies, varied gameplay and efficient use of the entire map. Just consider the newest public match map, Viridian Bog. It's a curved strip of land with two huge plateaus equidistant from both dropzones. In my opinion, it's the most boring and predictable map after Alpine, but Alpine at least offers many possibilities if both teams stay away from H9 hill. Viridian Bog doesn't even offer that. It's a total failure in terms of balancing, even though it looks great, for the most part.

I still want them to update the old maps, but it's not really a given that they'll be better. They'll just be bigger. Maybe this means it makes more sense to just add more new maps. At least then there will be more variation. <shrug>

[spectralthundr]

Alistair Winter, on 27 August 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

I guess so.

River City and Forest Colony had to be updated, because they were so tiny. The same is true for Frozen City and Canyon Network. They're just a bit too small, leading to predictable gameplay.

Then there's the other group of maps, like Alpine and Terra Therma. Those maps are big enough, but they're not very well balanced. The question then becomes: can we expect these maps to be properly balanced now that PGI has more experience? The answer is no. Unequivocally, no.

If you look at the progression from 2012 to 2015, there's not really a lot of progress in terms of balanced maps that offer interesting strategies, varied gameplay and efficient use of the entire map. Just consider the newest public match map, Viridian Bog. It's a curved strip of land with two huge plateaus equidistant from both dropzones. In my opinion, it's the most boring and predictable map after Alpine, but Alpine at least offers many possibilities if both teams stay away from H9 hill. Viridian Bog doesn't even offer that. It's a total failure in terms of balancing, even though it looks great, for the most part.

I still want them to update the old maps, but it's not really a given that they'll be better. They'll just be bigger. Maybe this means it makes more sense to just add more new maps. At least then there will be more variation. <shrug>

Don't forget Mining Colony and HPG, both of those are tiny as hell.

[White Bear 84]

Alistair Winter, on 27 August 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

I still want them to update the old maps, but it's not really a given that they'll be better. They'll just be bigger. Maybe this means it makes more sense to just add more new maps. At least then there will be more variation. <shrug>

Kinda cool to have the older maps for smaller matches and private matches as well...

spectralthundr, on 27 August 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

Don't forget Mining Colony and HPG, both of those are tiny as hell.

Quite like the size of these maps and the fight zones, although relatively predicable are quite balanced. Personally have never had any issues with either of these.

I would fix Crimson though, always, always the same thing. The choke points are just awful and the tunnel makes NO sense whatsoever. Way too much redundant map space.

Edited by White Bear 84, 27 August 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[Impyrium]

If they redo Caustic, I just want to see PGI really try to avoid the whole centralized map feature many of their maps suffer from. Try to give a team reason to try different things. I've never really had utmost faith in PGI's map department, but I figure anyone can learn so there's always that little bit of hope left...

[MeiSooHaityu]

chiXu, on 27 August 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

This review here got me thinking - Would you rather PGI used this new standard they've reached in map design for creating 'new' maps, or would you rather they continued to go through the current maps to revamp and revitalise them?

Actually, it kind of feels like the reworks are new maps to me. Except for some standout landmarks (Citadel for River City or Tanker in Forest Colony). These maps have little to nothing in common with the old maps (especially Forest Colony), so I'm cool with what they are doing.

[spectralthundr]

White Bear 84, on 27 August 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

Kinda cool to have the older maps for smaller matches and private matches as well...




Quite like the size of these maps and the fight zones, although relatively predicable are quite balanced. Personally have never had any issues with either of these.

I would fix Crimson though, always, always the same thing. The choke points are just awful and the tunnel makes NO sense whatsoever. Way too much redundant map space.

I just don't get why teams that start on the B line on Crimson ever go tunnel, you just end up shooting friendlies and bottling yourselves. Tactical sense is not in a pugs nature sadly.

[MeiSooHaityu]

spectralthundr, on 27 August 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

I just don't get why teams that start on the B line on Crimson ever go tunnel, you just end up shooting friendlies and bottling yourselves. Tactical sense is not in a pugs nature sadly.

Yea, I was never a fan of the tunnel, or ANY tunnels in MWO. The above description always happens whether it is Crimson Strait, Forest Colony (old map), or Frozen City.

The only time I like the tunnel is when I'm shooting into it and hitting the enemy mechs all bottled up and jammed up because the lead assault or heavy stops pushing (creating a bottle neck), and tries to back pedal.

[White Bear 84]

spectralthundr, on 27 August 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

I just don't get why teams that start on the B line on Crimson ever go tunnel, you just end up shooting friendlies and bottling yourselves. Tactical sense is not in a pugs nature sadly.

Second nature is second nature

[Legend_]

I think somewhat more randomised spawn points would help spread teams away from converging in the 'usual' spots.

Have a pool of spawn points for each side, and then have teams spawn into a random selection of that pool.

Present example - 4 'mechs spawn into Alpha, Beta and Charlie Lances

Potential example - 4 'mechs spawn into Alpha and Charlie Lances, 2 Spawn into Delta and 2 into Foxtrot.

[spectralthundr]

My other pet peeve lately again involving the evil B line, when you get Bog and rather than push the center high ground right away or at least head just to the right of it, all the pugs converge to the B5 corner (I think it is) then get totally surrounded because they pretty much gave the red team the entire map by that point.