74 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

All this would do is change every "ECM OP plz nerf" thread into a "Streaks OP plz nerf" thread.

[Event Horizon]

No

ECM is easy to counter and it is going to be nerfed to 90 meters. There are just a lot more ECM out now because of all the recent mech releases.

[Aiden Skye]

If ECM and LRM's worked like they did in lore this wouldn't even be a problem. In case anyone did't realize MWO's ECM is a hybrid of several forms of Lore ECM all rolled into one 1.5 ton box. This right here is the main problem.

Secondly in lore, C3 master and slave systems existed. To share targeting data, you needed a C3 master system, to recieve you needed a slave. in MWO both systems are free to all mechs, so any mech can indirectly fire LRMs.

Lasty we have no Active / passive radar in MWO. Which would go a long way to combat LRM spam.

There is no need to get rid of ECM completely and brainstorm far fetched solutions. No nerfing ECM range / buffing back to redicoulous levels. Just do it right and be done with the band-****!! Bandaids! danm censoring!

Edited by W A R K H A N, 29 August 2015 - 10:23 AM.

[Mavairo]

ECM should get some tweaks, but there DEFINITELY needs to be an information warfare aspect of this game.
BAP countering it, tag countering it is a great start.
I found the tonnage to have a bap on my cauldron born (as it uses streaks anyway), and ECM's effectiveness is greatly reduced, coupled with the tag it also has now.

I might even try to find tonnage elsewhere on other mechs, if nothing else for the cbill showers.

I like ECM, BAP, TAG, and UAVs.

ECM isn't even honestly what defeated LRMs. Improved hit reg, strategies, and tactics did.

[Clownwarlord]

No because then streak and lrms would rain.

What I wish would happen is that they would fix:
- ECM
- BAP
- Heat Vision
- Night Vision
- Mech Geometry (example, shadowhawk as big as the biggest heavy, grasshopper as big as the biggest assault ...)
- Map Geometry (hate small rocks that should be crushed by an atlas only to be tripped by them)
- CW (while do enjoy it from time to time it needs a lot of work)
- Lastly to Phil and Russ and the rest of you who hold the information;stop hyping up the re-balance and give use the figures damn it!!!

[Spleenslitta]

They are about to cut the range of ECM in half. I hope it ends up covering only the mech that is equipped with it when it's all over.
Funny fact - the Kit Fox is my favorite mech so far and i use ECM on it.

[Aiden Skye]

Mavairo, on 29 August 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

ECM isn't even honestly what defeated LRMs. Improved hit reg, strategies, and tactics did.

Nah, Several rounds of nerfs to LRMs which included taking away their splash damage and reducing damage, Radar dep AND the release of ECM chassis after ECM chassis done it in. Try getting a lock for lrms with your narc and tag though 5 layers of ECM.

[Coralld]

W A R K H A N, on 29 August 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

If ECM and LRM's worked like they did in lore this wouldn't even be a problem. In case anyone did't realize MWO's ECM is a hybrid of several forms of Lore ECM all rolled into one 1.5 ton box. This right here is the main problem.

Secondly in lore, C3 master and slave systems existed. To share targeting data, you needed a C3 master system, to recieve you needed a slave. in MWO both systems are free to all mechs, so any mech can indirectly fire LRMs.

Lasty we have no Active / passive radar in MWO. Which would go a long way to combat LRM spam.

There is no need to get rid of ECM completely and brainstorm far fetched solutions. No nerfing ECM range / buffing back to redicoulous levels. Just do it right and be done with the band ****!!

This is both correct as well as incorrect. Your paragraph is correct about ECM, but the paragraph about C3 is incorrect.

Here is a link to an older thread about C3
http://mwomercs.com/...-actually-does/

[Mavairo]

W A R K H A N, on 29 August 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Nah, Several rounds of nerfs to LRMs which included taking away their splash damage and reducing damage, Radar dep AND the release of ECM chassis after ECM chassis done it in. Try getting a lock for lrms with your narc and tag though 5 layers of ECM.

Even when LRMs were at their most powerful, I never feared them. It was pretty obvious even back then, that they were easily brought down by advancing through cover, twisting about, and using mobility to bring them down.
At their best, they were a third place weapon. Now....only the mg is more useless. (The Flamer doesn't even count as a weapon)

[Johnny Z]

The change to 90 meters looks good. Also why not stop ECM from stacking making countermeasures useless.

[Coralld]

Vlad Ward, on 29 August 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

All this would do is change every "ECM OP plz nerf" thread into a "Streaks OP plz nerf" thread.

clownwarlord, on 29 August 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

No because then streak and lrms would rain.

What I wish would happen is that they would fix:
- ECM
- BAP
- Heat Vision
- Night Vision
- Mech Geometry (example, shadowhawk as big as the biggest heavy, grasshopper as big as the biggest assault ...)
- Map Geometry (hate small rocks that should be crushed by an atlas only to be tripped by them)
- CW (while do enjoy it from time to time it needs a lot of work)
- Lastly to Phil and Russ and the rest of you who hold the information;stop hyping up the re-balance and give use the figures damn it!!!

Nope, ECM counters Streaks as one of its functions when an ECM mech gets close to an enemy mech with Streaks. As for LRMs, ECM counter Artemis at all ranges and LRMs get a target penalty on top of it (Actually, all weapons get a target penalty if I remember correctly). LRMs also don't function at all when ECM gets close.

So as you can see, if PGI incorporates the changes I have described in this thread then the fears of Streak and LRM-aggedon is unfounded.

Also, LRMs are easy to avoid even without ECM.

[Mavairo]

Johnny Z, on 29 August 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

The change to 90 meters looks good. Also why not stop ECM from stacking making countermeasures useless.

I'm actually of two minds about this. I can understand why it stacks. The reason it should stack is simple really it's just putting out that much more electromagnetic interference than a given counter system can produce.

It also when you think about it, encourages people to take support systems like TAG or BAP in the first place. Finding one ton, or one and a half isn't really that big of a deal. Yes you are sacrificing dmg, heat, armor or maybe a kph or two in speed to find it...but that's what risk vs reward is all about.

And actually I've kind of come to understand, and accept this. Most times is it worth the tonnage sacrificed?
I think it might be, if it's giving you that much of a fit.
It's like LRMs. If you're having issues with lrms... find the ton and a half for AMS. It's not terribly hard, and it stacks better than massed LRMs do.

Same thing with bap and tag. Chances are you can find the tonnage.

(Also tag doesn't care how much ECM you are dealing with)

[Vlad Ward]

Coralld, on 29 August 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Nope, ECM counters Streaks as one of its functions when an ECM mech gets close to an enemy mech with Streaks. As for LRMs, ECM counter Artemis at all ranges and LRMs get a target penalty on top of it (Actually, all weapons get a target penalty if I remember correctly). LRMs also don't function at all when ECM gets close.

So as you can see, if PGI incorporates the changes I have described in this thread then the fears of Streak and LRM-aggedon is unfounded.

Also, LRMs are easy to avoid even without ECM.

My mistake. I didn't even read your post (lost interest in player suggestions for ECM changes years ago). I should've clarified that I was responding to the OP.

[Coralld]

Vlad Ward, on 29 August 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

My mistake. I didn't even read your post (lost interest in player suggestions for ECM changes years ago). I should've clarified that I was responding to the OP.

No worries.

[Mister Blastman]

I think ECM has been nerfed hard enough. It isn't a force field or anything nor is it the "oh noes where did my team go" field that it used to be.

[michaelius]

We played perfectly fine in beta without it so yes it would be better.

[Aresye]

> Disregard LRMs
> Acquire Direct-Fire Weapons

> Problem Solved

[Mystere]

michaelius, on 29 August 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

We played perfectly fine in beta without it so yes it would be better.

That's like saying we played perfectly fine in closed beta with only 4 mechs, so there is no need for more.

Mister Blastman, on 29 August 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

I think ECM has been nerfed hard enough. It isn't a force field or anything nor is it the "oh noes where did my team go" field that it used to be.

I actually liked it when ECM disrupted IFF, running the risk of you shooting a teammate if you were not careful.

[Pjwned]

Grisbane, on 29 August 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

as long as LRM's would be required to have LOS by the firer in order to lock then sure, remove ECM. otherwise no, we don't need to be giving the idiots spamming LRM's from the corner of the map any way to profit from it.

If LRMs were also made to be fire and forget then that could possibly be arranged, otherwise not just no but LOL no.

[LordNothing]

while i normally say 'just do things the MWLL way and be done with it', which would totally work mind you, i have yet another alternative.

give ecm 3 modes.

counter: works the same as before, can break the other 2 modes unless also countered by an enemy ecm

stealth: protects you and only you from radar, unless countered. does not alert enemy mechs to radar disruption (or perhaps at a reduced range).

protect: protects all non ecm mechs in the bubble, essentially giving them stealth. the mech in protect mode however is completely detectable and targetable. 2 ecm mechs in protect mode cannot shield eachother, however a mech in protect can shield a mech in distrupt. protect bubbles have no effect on ecm mechs in stealth mode.