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A Word Of Advice, Please.


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#21 Spleenslitta

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:53 AM

View PostN0D, on 31 August 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

This all still leaves me quite confused. Almost everyone here makes certain sense but all advices given are too situational... well, heck, i know that there are no universal truth, except "42", but still.
Luscious Dan, Kmieciu, you have my sincerest thanks for trying to be specific about builds... although lights aren't really my thing, and after i read all those comments, i sort of started to want to fiddle with some C-LPL's. Any advice on clan mech that could boat some?
On the joke side: this. Wub-wub-wub...

Try to keep cooling efficiency at at least +30% with all builds. 40% if possible.

#22 Luscious Dan

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:29 PM

View PostN0D, on 31 August 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

This all still leaves me quite confused. Almost everyone here makes certain sense but all advices given are too situational... well, heck, i know that there are no universal truth, except "42", but still.
Luscious Dan, Kmieciu, you have my sincerest thanks for trying to be specific about builds... although lights aren't really my thing, and after i read all those comments, i sort of started to want to fiddle with some C-LPL's. Any advice on clan mech that could boat some?
On the joke side: this. Wub-wub-wub...


Happy to help, MWO is a game of limitless problem solving, mixing some math in with spatial reasoning, coordination, reflexes, teammate coordination, communication, etc. Super engaging, and I love the mental stimulation of it all.

Every class of mech in MWO has a specific role, and there really is no easy mode (despite what people say). Sticking to stronger or more heavily quirked mechs can be a bit of a shortcut to success (Thunderbolt chassis is a good example, the quirks are NUTS for some of them like the 5SS), but you still need to know how to play multiple roles to be effective for your team.

Lights often escort the group (ECM lights especially), but later in the match you can also become a distraction so your team can capitalize on a numbers advantage elsewhere (or hammer those who chase you if you can draw them into a bad spot). A good flanker puts the enemy in a dilemma; ignore them or divert resources from the main fight to deal with them. Both options can be costly. Knowing how and when to play this role is tough to explain, but comes with practice and experience.

Regarding your Stormcrow, there is a lot of risk to a build like that due to ghost heat. For clan weapons, firing more than 6 medium or small lasers (including pulse variants) within 0.5s will cause massive heat penalties. Equipping more than 6 means you have to volley fire with separate groups, or use the chain fire method.

Check out the Stormcrow C, as it might be right up your alley even in the more or less stock configuration (so a much lower c-bill cost). Just swap the LB-10X autocannon for a UAC-10 and give it a shot. If you find yourself within 350m most of the time, not using the range of the right arm-mounted LPL, you can swap for another arm and load it up with smaller lasers.

For weapon groups, I'd have left click be the UAC10, right click be whatever is in your other arms, and if you have a 3+ button mouse then having the torso pulse lasers on those extra buttons would be perfect.

The Nova can do a similar build, with one side full of lasers and the other with a UAC-10. Lighter mech, which brings some issues, but it has jump jets.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 31 August 2015 - 12:32 PM.


#23 Tarogato

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:31 PM

"i am a loner"

Bad news. Being alone in this game is often a death sentence - you don't want to wander away from the team, because if the enemy realises that you're alone and vulnerable, they'll come and kill you.

"i like sniping with instant hit weapons"

Sounds like what you're looking for is gauss-vomit. That is, a combination of gauss rifle and laser vomit.

"are SCR-PRIME with an array of lasers for different situations"

In MWO, it is best to avoid equipping weapons for an array of different situations. When you're fighting at long range, the tonnage you spent on the small lasers goes to waste, and when the enemy is in your face, you've dedicated tonnage to hot long range weapons that are not efficient at working at close range. In MWO, try to keep it to two different weapons on any build. Sometimes you can mix in weapons with similar profiles (such as cERML and cLPL), but avoid mixing weapons with differing profiles (cERSL and cERLL).

The mechs I'd recommend the most based on what you've told us is the Hellbringer. It has ECM, so you can get away with pulling wide flanks and abusing cover without being targeted by the enemy. That said, it's a slow-ish mech that has a hard time defending itself against lights, so you don't want to stray too far away from your team to the point where you could get swarmed by enemy lights. The gauss alone can be fired from concealment with relative impunity. The lasers give away your position to the enemy, but they are vital to your damage output. Here is a more extreme range build. It doesn't work very well in solo queue because it's hot and requires you to be a very long range, but you can give it a try.

A few other mechs that come to mind are the Shadow Cat, the Cicada, the Raven, the Stalker, the Jagermech, and the Stormcrow. The first three are all light mechs, basically (even though some of them are technically mediums). The Stalker is kinda like the DWF, except it's a little bit more mobile and it's REALLY good at abusing horizontal cover (aka it can ridge-peek with its high mounted weapons) . Same goes for the Jagermech, except is usually carries ballistics (dual gauss is a fun build). The Stormcrow can do everything. It's very maneuverable and its odd shape means its spreads damage very well and can be quite forgiving to new players. It's almost fast enough to pull off solo flanks.

"and DWF-S with 8 C-ERLL's only (because Daishi is toooo sloooow to follow enemy light mech up close with its crosshairs anyway, so if lights surround me, i'm dead for sure)"

DWF is a team mech. It's best used away from cover. Think of it as a walking turret - nobody wants to be in front of a Dire Wolf, so it's a good means of area denial to the enemy. Park your DWF near cover, but in the open and shake your very large stick at anybody that comes near your yard. That said, it requires team support. A lone Dire Wolf is a dead Dire Wolf. Because they are so slow, they are prime targets for lights and medium harassers. You can't solo flank in these things, you have to stick with the team and the team has to cooperate with you.

The best loadouts for DWFs are dualgauss+vomit, singlegauss+extravomit, UAC/5 spam, UAC/10 spam, and mixtures of UAC+vomit. Stacking 8x cERLL is just super hot and situational. It kinda-ish works on Alpine, but pretty much nothing else. You might be tempted to be a "sniper" and pelt things from the opposite side of the map, but most engagements in MWO are within 800m, so you don't need to stack ERLL to be an effective "sniper".

Edited by Tarogato, 31 August 2015 - 12:38 PM.


#24 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:36 PM

"I'll go out on a limb and say you can ignore what Appogee says in post #11"

I would advise against ignoring that advice.

Go ahead and try sniper mode - the "tell" that its hurtng you team will be when, match after match, you are the last man standing getting swarmed by 6-8 red team mechs.

#25 Nightmare1

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:48 PM

If you want to snipe with a near-instant hit weapon, and you already own one Hunchback, then I highly suggest you acquire the HBK-GI (Grid Iron) during the next 50% off sale. It's got a high-mount Gauss Rifle that fires very quickly and makes it one of the best sniping Mechs in the game.

Other than that, I would recommend against the Dire Wolf. It's not a very new-player-friendly Mech. The Stormcrow would be better for you, but it doesn't have any high-mount ballistics.

Personally speaking, I would advise you to choose a Mech that has high-mount ballistics or at least JJs if you are going for sniping. The Gauss is the best sniping weapon in the game right now, so I'm certain that you will gravitate towards it. Mechs like the Jager make excellent snipers. I've also found the Summoner Prime to be a good sniper with a Gauss Rifle in one arm and an ERPPC in the other. Regardless, I would shy away from Dires until you've been in the game for a while.

#26 Luscious Dan

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:50 PM

View PostTarogato, on 31 August 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

The mechs I'd recommend the most based on what you've told us is the Hellbringer. It has ECM, so you can get away with pulling wide flanks and abusing cover without being targeted by the enemy. That said, it's a slow-ish mech that has a hard time defending itself against lights, so you don't want to stray too far away from your team to the point where you could get swarmed by enemy lights. The gauss alone can be fired from concealment with relative impunity. The lasers give away your position to the enemy, but they are vital to your damage output. Here is a more extreme range build. It doesn't work very well in solo queue because it's hot and requires you to be a very long range, but you can give it a try.

A few other mechs that come to mind are the Shadow Cat, the Cicada, the Raven, the Stalker, the Jagermech, and the Stormcrow. The first three are all light mechs, basically (even though some of them are technically mediums). The Stalker is kinda like the DWF, except it's a little bit more mobile and it's REALLY good at abusing horizontal cover (aka it can ridge-peek with its high mounted weapons) . Same goes for the Jagermech, except is usually carries ballistics (dual gauss is a fun build). The Stormcrow can do everything. It's very maneuverable and its odd shape means its spreads damage very well and can be quite forgiving to new players. It's almost fast enough to pull off solo flanks.


Hellbringer is something that came to mind, but I don't own any so couldn't provide much useful input for the chassis. It can definitely do a number of decent builds (building around gauss or energy), and ECM mounted on the 3-energy hardpoint left torso is pretty awesome.

#27 Spleenslitta

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 01:03 PM

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 31 August 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

"I'll go out on a limb and say you can ignore what Appogee says in post #11"

I would advise against ignoring that advice.

Go ahead and try sniper mode - the "tell" that its hurtng you team will be when, match after match, you are the last man standing getting swarmed by 6-8 red team mechs.

If you get swarmed by 6-8 mechs then it's not your fault. It's the teams fault for not managing to do enough damage.
Besides i've sometimes turned the tables on the enemy team despite being outnumbered.

Got into trouble early on in a match and had all my CT armor removed. Went hypercautious but still fought.
Ended up with me alone against 4 enemy mechs - Jager, Wolverine, Locust and something big (probably Battlemaster).
I killed them all and they rarelly saw me coming so they couldn't give return fire.
I used a FS 9S before the nerf with not a single MPL despite the quirks. (3 SL, 1 ML and ER PPC(or was it an ER LL?).
Jager ended up waiting for me to come out of cover since i tricked him to believe i would appear there next....i snuck up behind him instead and he was dead.
I won not because i had armor to spare (because i didn't have CT armor at all) but because i shoot them but did not get shot in return.

Why trade hits when you can just avoid that by being a little patient and smart about it? Allout aggression is not all there is to MWO you know.
Sure being a lone ranger can be unstable but it's where all the thrills are and the most......spectacular results can sometimes occur.

#28 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 01:11 PM

Right, and we all have matches like that. For instance, I won a Conquest for my team today because I went against my SOP and aggressively capped all bases. I was last man standing against 8 and they couldn't catch up in time.

But that doesn't mean its a good strategy. It works 10% of the time, and fails around 60%.

#29 Spleenslitta

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 01:20 PM

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 31 August 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Right, and we all have matches like that. For instance, I won a Conquest for my team today because I went against my SOP and aggressively capped all bases. I was last man standing against 8 and they couldn't catch up in time.

But that doesn't mean its a good strategy. It works 10% of the time, and fails around 60%.

Funny thing is that i get killed much quicker when i'm with my team than when i'm off on my own most of the time.
I guess i just know the travel routes where the meta guys simply stay away.
Take Therra Therma for example - Most players take the shortest route when they circle around the central volcano.
They either go through the crater or they circle around as close to the volcano as they can.

That means the outer part of the map is rarelly traveled. So it's safer to use that to go from A to B.
If you have a fast mech it's worth it even if you have to travel 2 or 3 times the distance to get to your destination.
Then launch a fast raid and relocate far before a response can be given by the enemy.

When i end up in trouble nobody can help me. Unstable yes. Thrilling? Oh YES.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 31 August 2015 - 01:21 PM.


#30 Luscious Dan

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 01:29 PM

I think we're starting to get a wee bit off topic here.

Main thing for me would be to find a mech that suits your fancy (we've all suggested a few to consider), and level up 3 of them. Not the most exciting way to play I suppose, but the benefits of speed tweak and getting the x2 basic skill bonuses are significant.

It's a bit of a slow process off the bat, but hopefully you end up liking your choice in mechs since you'll be spending a decent amount of time in them :D

Another quick thing to consider (aside from mastering the skill trees) is sticking to IS or Clan tech base for a while, as you get established. A stable of mechs from the same tech base can share engines and equipment, while mixing Clan and IS means you will be buying a lot of extra weapons and whatnot.

#31 Spleenslitta

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 01:42 PM

View PostLuscious Dan, on 31 August 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I think we're starting to get a wee bit off topic here.

Main thing for me would be to find a mech that suits your fancy (we've all suggested a few to consider), and level up 3 of them. Not the most exciting way to play I suppose, but the benefits of speed tweak and getting the x2 basic skill bonuses are significant.

It's a bit of a slow process off the bat, but hopefully you end up liking your choice in mechs since you'll be spending a decent amount of time in them :D

Another quick thing to consider (aside from mastering the skill trees) is sticking to IS or Clan tech base for a while, as you get established. A stable of mechs from the same tech base can share engines and equipment, while mixing Clan and IS means you will be buying a lot of extra weapons and whatnot.

Nods. Indeed we might be off topic. In any case i don't give advice on choosing specific mechs or much on it's build or choice of weapons.

Just try to make certain that any sniper mech has certain qualities. If you do not have ECM and/or JJ's it is not critical...but they are good things to have.
- Decent speed. About 100kph should be a minimum if long relocation is performed after every shot.
- JJ's to make it easier to get from A to B and they are just very handy tools.
- ECM makes enemy LRM's pretty much useless and lengthens enemy response time by a fair amount.
- Having backup weapons even if it's only 2x Small lasers is not a bad thing.
- High mounted weapons slots for long range weapons is a good thing when selecting mech.

#32 Luscious Dan

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:00 PM

Good points.

With respect to ammo, for a ballistic sniper (with some energy backup weapons), I try to take at least 25 gauss rounds (preferably 30-35 per gauss rifle if possible), or enough autocannon ammo for 500-600 total damage (keeping in mind you'll miss with some). The lasers should be able to deliver the rest, for solid games north of 600 damage dealt. That's a really solid match for most medium/heavy mechs.

If you're heavy enough to be doubling up on a weapon (like a Dakka Wolf full of autocannons), add a lot more bullets! Assaults should be able to do 800-1,000+ damage on your best matches, luckily many can carry plenty of ammo and backup weapons to pull it off.

The rule of thumb is similar to rear armor values, taking too much is inefficient but you obviously need enough to get through a match. With ammo, if you're surviving matches with 10-25% ammo remaining then you're probably in the sweet spot.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 31 August 2015 - 02:00 PM.


#33 Obadiah333

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:16 PM

I'd advise against the Dire because you have to have 3 unlocked to master, and without speed tweak, it is as slow as a salted slug. Since you are just starting out, the grind for the 17+ million C-bills you need to buy your 2nd one will be a long time in coming with a basic only dire when you are new to the game. Shoot, I've been playing since may of 2012 and I loathe playing my single Dire Wolf since it doesn't have speed tweak. It's miserable, and I used to pilot atlas' all the time.

#34 Luscious Dan

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:24 PM

Lol, good point. Dire is more than a little bit pricey if paying full price in C-bills. Another good reason to stick to the lighter classes early on :D

#35 Spleenslitta

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:25 PM

One thing i see many players completly forget is torso twist limitations. They think about twisting to the side and about arms.
But one thing they often forget is how good the mech is at aiming up/down with it's torso weapons.
That becomes incredibly important once your at medium/short range in uneven terrain.

Once saw a Dragon equipped for brawling killed by a Catapult because the Dragon had his arms locked to his torso.
He couldn't fire upwards at the Catapult thus he paniced and died miserably. Get used to having your arms unlocked.
It quickens your response / aiming time with your arm mounted weapons by a lot.

Some say you get unfocused damage with arms unlocked but if you can manage enough firegroups you get a few advantages.
- More control over your heat. No need to fire a bunch of torso weapons in the same firegroup as your arm weapons if the torso weapons cannot hit the target.
- Less ammo waste too.
- You can respond better to annoying lights like myself with arms unlocked.
- Keeping your arms locked at all times kind of puts a limiter on your capabilities that cannot be overcome by skills no matter how good you are.

- Concider having a middleranged weapon amongst your backup weapons.
Sometimes you end up sniping at ranges that are close enough to not count as sniping. A lightweight middleranged cooler weapon becomes an effective damage booster then.
I got this build on my Kit Fox: 1 ER Laser of every size, 4MG's, 6 JJ's, ECM. Point is that i use the Medium ER Laser to boost my damage at any range.

I could have dropped the smaller weapons and got another Clan ER LL but then i would be pretty useless in a prolonged close range duel.
And the medium laser is not that far from it's larger brother damagewise. It evens out.

I've found this way of thinking to be usefull.
- Opportunities that cannot be taken because you lack an appropriate weapon for the situation is less damage.
I find that if i got a weapon to use for every situation my damage and surviviability skyrockets.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 31 August 2015 - 02:26 PM.


#36 Obadiah333

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 02:37 PM

About Arm Lock: There are 2 ways to go about it: 1. Keep them locked and hold shift to unlock them for free arm swing. I only lock arms on my mech if I have torso mounted weapons that are integral to my alpha strike or need to be fired with an arm mounted weapon. I use shift to free up my arms to fire them separately when needed. 2. Keep then free and use shift when you want to alpha precisely with torso mounted weapons. If you don't use torso mount weapons then you should never have your arms locked. If your arm weapons are LRM's or SSRM's, they don't need to be locked. The shift key is not hard to manage for locking/unlocking arm weapons. I think you would be much better off in the long run learning to manage arm lock with the shift key than learning to only use one mode or the other. Free arms are always better in terrain with varying levels of height -however there is a lot to be said about a big alpha with weapon convergence from torso mounted weapons. learn both ways and use the shift key.

#37 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 03:14 PM

hellbringer is definitely better as a sniper than crow, 4 ll or (much better in soloq) a gauss and few ml like it's suggested above or just ordinary laservomit like 1 lpl + 5 ml (or some other set of lpl and ml)
ecm helps your sniping a lot
crow is better in close quarters with her speed to approach or retreat and being very nimble and tough, decent as a sniper too, but hellbringer is better at sniping

as for you builds... dire starlet with 8 ll is adorable <3
very inefficient ofc

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 31 August 2015 - 03:19 PM.


#38 JC Daxion

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 03:18 PM

first, Not spending money to upgrade with engine, endo, and doubles is one of the worst things you can do if you wan't to grind with this mech. I'd go as far to say as they are Batcrap crazy to even think about it.. You might as well run a trail instead, as the champion trials are way better than a non-upgraded 4P.

2, LRM's are actually a high skill weapon. Where they lack is the competition level where people are using very well coordinated team work, and multiple mechs doing pin-point damage. But that is a very small % of the player base.. Even the typical groups LRM's can be effective. In fact, a good LRM pilot on a good group can be an asset when played right. But they do lack the pinpoint. But those with higher ping, or a bit slower hand eye, or even slower computers with slower FPS, can often really do very well with them. You can't sit back and just blind fire and expect to have good results and help your team.. Roll with the up front guys and you can be useful. LRM's get a bad rap from the 5%, and you can get bad habits, but then again so can any sniper..


3.. Honestly it sounds like you are more going to be into clans.. In that case instead of grinding 40m c-bills in an HBK, i would just suggest buying MC, like you would a typical game, and buy a couple mechs.. Arttic cheeta, Storm crow, timber wolf, and hellbringer, and warhawk are the popular ones. But with re-blance coming very soon,, who knows how they will fair...


Or you could just pick up 2 more HBK's, learn the game more, learn all the weapon systems.. and by that time will have a way better understanding of what you like and dislike.. HBK's can brawl, snipe, skirmish, and you can get all 3 fully upgraded for a bit over 15m... basically the cost of one clan mech depending on which one, either a bit more, or a bit less. 4SP, and 4H, or 4G is what you will be wanting.. the H has more energy, but the G can run dual 5's or any other other ballistic.

Edited by JC Daxion, 31 August 2015 - 03:28 PM.


#39 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 03:25 PM

View PostJC Daxion, on 31 August 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

first, Not spending money to upgrade with engine, endo, and doubles is one of the worst things you can do if you wan't to grind with this mech. I'd go as far to say as they are Batcrap crazy to even think about it.. You might as well run a trail instead, as the champion trials are way better than a non-upgraded 4P.


this
if you dont want to play hunch and just want to grind some money simply use a trial inner sphere mech, they have upgrades and (inner sphere ones, clans are stock) have decent builds made by community polls

#40 Wayreth

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 05:58 PM

Try a light mech first and graduate upwards





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