86 replies to this topic

[Nik Reaper]

I'd advise against getting a mech based on current quirks as the rebalance is coming mby even this month , so even recomending thunderbolts might not be the best idea in the long run.

[Kmieciu]

N0D, on 01 September 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

Holy Kerensky! I just discovered THE quintessence of all sniping thing: CDA-3C

Try this build: CDA-3C ERPPC UAC5
It's not meta, but very fun. ERPPC is so cool that you can take snapshots whenever you like. And the UAC5 gives you the ability to deliver another 10 damage in a split second. I usually snipe form 600 meters and just fire the UAC along ERPPC untill it jamms. Then I re-position, like a sniper should.
Don't let anyone discourage you from buying mechs because of a "rebalance" that might or might not come on the 22-nd. You still have enough time to master this mech, play it to death and grow bored of it. And both 2B and 2A Cicadas are great at laser-vomit. 2B is on par with a Firestarter. And they're cheap to buy, too.

Edited by Kmieciu, 03 September 2015 - 04:52 AM.

[The Basilisk]

N0D, on 31 August 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

Greetings. I'm new to the game and mwo forums...


"Ah... the classical which-mech-first-for-a-beginner question!"... is what your thought will probably be if you continue reading this, and that'll be somewhat true. However! There are some reasons for me to create one of those topics, which were made hundreds of times.
First of all, my gameplay preference is sort of unusual: i am a loner and i like sniping with instant hit weapons and hide in cover, when receive return fire. And no, i've tried lrm's and ppc's on some trial mechs and i don't like how it "feels" to control them. Ppc's need some degree of prediction on long range (i'm no good at that yet), and lrm's are... well... they feel "unrewarding". No skill involved, limited pinpoint potential, and stuff like that.
Currently i'm running HBK-4P with 2 ERLL's at highest attach points (for shooting, while showing only the little bit of a "hunch" over terrain) and 7 SL's for those, who appear up close out of nowhere (sadly, this happens A LOT). This satisfies me for now, except my damage output seems somewhat low. I've bought HBK because i wanted to customize something, and HBK was medium, cheap and laser oriented (4p). Aside from that, this mech will most likely be temporary, and i won't upgrade it further with any of those double sinks, better engines and stuff.
Secondly, i sort of already know which mechs i want to pilot... in theory. The actual advice i would gladly accept, is to which one i should try to grind my way to from the start, and what should the loadout be. The mechs in question are SCR-PRIME with an array of lasers for different situations and DWF-S with 8 C-ERLL's only (because Daishi is toooo sloooow to follow enemy light mech up close with its crosshairs anyway, so if lights surround me, i'm dead for sure)
Now that you know all the details (i hope you won't "tl;dr" me), please do give an advice. Should i just grit my teeth and start grinding for DWF, or does SCR "feels" better, and i should try it first? Are there actually any other mechs like this that do the job better with my preferred playstyle? Maybe there's some way to improve loadouts of those two (not using rockets, ugh)? I've heard something about quirks that can influence my choice - what are they specifically, and which combinations are best, according to my preferred playstyle?

Thanks for answers in advance. N0D out. O7

Sniping with Lasers ( and those are the only instant hit weapons ingame ) is basicaly standing alone without support using your own big laserpointer to tell everyone "here i am, come get me".

The only weapon alowing for a high damage concentration, low visibility and good accuracy is the Gauss Rifle.

Your best bet would be something like this:
For Range Gauss +32% = 871m longrange and 2631m maxrange BJ-A
For rapidfire Gauss 60% cooldownred. = 2.4sec recycle time Grid

But be advised. Heading out alone is always a less than optimal idea.
Two scouts doing their job and you are done for, no matter what mech you drive.

[N0D]

I'm doing moderately well with my HBK-4p with 3 LPL's. Usually 300-500 damage per match, if not surrounded and killed instantly. I guess, that won't happen in the future that much, when i'll be more experienced with maps.
Currently thinking on experimenting with missiles, because those things are super annoying. I already own one HBK and 250 STD engine, sooo... how about this build:
HBK-4J ? Its quirks look quite promising.

Edited by N0D, 03 September 2015 - 11:42 PM.

[Kmieciu]

N0D, on 03 September 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

I'm doing moderately well with my HBK-4p with 3 LPL's. Usually 300-500 damage per match, if not surrounded and killed instantly. I guess, that won't happen in the future that much, when i'll be more experienced with maps.
Currently thinking on experimenting with missiles, because those things are super annoying. I already own one HBK and 250 STD engine, sooo... how about this build:
HBK-4J ? Its quirks look quite promising.

Put TAG in the head, so you don't have to expose your mech before firing. And be sure to buy the LRM10 cooldown module.
11,9 DPS without LRM10 cooldown module
16,2 DPS with LRM10 cooldown module
36% more dps for 3 million C-Bills spent

But with the current number of ECM mech out there, you'll probably have a bad time. If you manage to do 300-500 damage in a XL Hunchback, that means you are much too skilled to be using LRMs. You might as well drop some cash for Grid Iron, and have some fun before PGI nerfs it to the ground ;-)

Edited by Kmieciu, 04 September 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[N0D]

Kmieciu, on 04 September 2015 - 12:08 AM, said:

But with the current number of ECM mech out there, you'll probably have a bad time. If you manage to do 300-500 damage in a XL Hunchback, that means you are much too skilled to be using LRMs. You might as well drop some cash for Grid Iron, and have some fun before PGI nerfs it to the ground ;-)

Huh? XL Hunch? Nah, i'm currently using STD: HBK-4P. And i wouldn't call myself skilled in any way: Usually 300-500 damage matches happen when nobody pays enough attention to me, focusing front assaults instead, lol. When it's not that case, like i said, i'm getting swarmed and killed instantly.
Also, i thought, that TAG counters ECM, no? Hmm...

Edited by N0D, 04 September 2015 - 12:36 AM.

[The Basilisk]

N0D, on 03 September 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

I'm doing moderately well with my HBK-4p with 3 LPL's. Usually 300-500 damage per match, if not surrounded and killed instantly. I guess, that won't happen in the future that much, when i'll be more experienced with maps.
Currently thinking on experimenting with missiles, because those things are super annoying. I already own one HBK and 250 STD engine, sooo... how about this build:
HBK-4J ? Its quirks look quite promising.

The main problem with LRMs is there are too many possibilitys to completely advoid damage from LRMs.
So if one said LRMs are doing soso DPS this just isn't true.
LRMs are doing little damage to medium players and absolutely none to decent players.
The truth is the better you get, PSR wise or in CW the less effective LRMs will be.
While in noobletpuglandia there are lots of ppl "super anoyed by LRMs" you will get lots of damage and even kills.
But as soon as you reach an upper medium level you will notice more and more mechs just steping into cover beeing instantly hidden ( radardeprivation ) making indirect fire impossible and direct sightline fire with LRMs only viable over medium ranges (traveltime no chance to react), and only if you get someone doing stupid things or just not paying attention you will ever hit a target ( or try indirect fire without locks into deathballing hillhumpers )
The better you get the more ppl you will meet with AMS, ECM and Radardeprivation.
You can't hurt a group with LRMs if they got 2-3 ECMs 3 or more AMS and radardepri each.

Edit: TAG can counter ECM as long as you point your TAG Laser at the Mech you want to LURM --> much facetime while pointing a nice red laserpointer from your position towards the enemy....BAD IDEA.
ONLY use TAG if you are out of their sightline and only over medium ranges...remember IS LRMS are slow the further you are away the longer you will have to point the TAG- Laser.
Further Remember IS LRMS advantage over ClanLRMs is they are a large compact swarm. So alway fire as many LRMs in one volley as you can....NEVER use chainfire if you don't specificaly want to annoy somebody or if you want to deliberately pull attention to yourself.

Edited by The Basilisk, 04 September 2015 - 01:33 AM.

[Kmieciu]

N0D, on 04 September 2015 - 12:34 AM, said:

Huh? XL Hunch? Nah, i'm currently using STD: HBK-4P. And i wouldn't call myself skilled in any way: Usually 300-500 damage matches happen when nobody pays enough attention to me, focusing front assaults instead, lol. When it's not that case, like i said, i'm getting swarmed and killed instantly.
Also, i thought, that TAG counters ECM, no? Hmm...

3LPL with just 10 heat sinks? That's insane ;-)

[N0D]

Kmieciu, on 04 September 2015 - 04:52 AM, said:

3LPL with just 10 heat sinks? That's insane ;-)

*Double heat sinks. Still, seems cooler to me then most of those laser vomit builds. Smurfy's mechlab evaluates cool efficiency as 37% (that is if all weapons fired simultaneously, i think?). Quite manageable.

[The Great Unwashed]

Recall, no ghost heat for 3 IS LPLs, LLs, and ERLLs... 19 seconds to overheating; quite manageable. If you put them all in the Hunch (I know, I know) you can loose arm armor (and LT armor) and add 2 DHS. Very dangerous build.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 04 September 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[N0D]

The Great Unwashed, on 04 September 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Recall, no ghost heat for 3 IS LPLs, LLs, and ERLLs... 19 seconds to overheating; quite manageable. If you put them all in the Hunch (I know, I know) you can loose arm armor (and LT armor) and add 2 DHS. Very dangerous build.

Not only dangerous, but also uncomfortable (i tried like you said at first) - Torso doesn't twist up and down nearly enough to be able to shoot from or up a moderate hill. Also arms are faster, which helps in close and pointblank range.

[Torezu]

N0D, on 03 September 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

I'm doing moderately well with my HBK-4p with 3 LPL's. Usually 300-500 damage per match, if not surrounded and killed instantly. I guess, that won't happen in the future that much, when i'll be more experienced with maps.
Currently thinking on experimenting with missiles, because those things are super annoying. I already own one HBK and 250 STD engine, sooo... how about this build:
HBK-4J ? Its quirks look quite promising.

Try this. Yes, I know it's an XL. I happen to have one from buying a WVR-7K. If you're going to buy one, get an XL 280 instead - they weigh the same. However, 3 MLs and a BAP are, imo, worth the extra vulnerability. The BAP is practically a necessity on any LRMer.

You could also pull off a couple tons of ammo for some more heat sinks. Adjust to taste.

Edited by Torezu, 04 September 2015 - 07:20 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Cicada's are great mechs, the 3C is pretty fun, but the 3M is awesome. an AC5+4 Medium lasers and it has ECM. It is one of my highest rated mechs, so that says something i think. Cicada's are like a jenner that ate a locust. they are fast as slower lights, (from With typical engines they can range from 124 or 133KPH, though i use a bigger engine in my 3C and that hits 144kph. the funny thing is i also play lights, and my typical lights are 141-150KPH so it is basically almost as fast. Basically they are heavily armored lights, with a tiny bit of extra fire power.

3M with the ac-5 build is sorta like a sniper, but it has the speed to really close fast so you can often bang away as you are getting closer with the auto-cannon and then when you get up close you pack on extra damage via 4 ML's to you get hot, then use the speed to get out of dodge while you cool down. Basically a major strafing mech. You can also run a double ERPPC build, but it runs hot, then again you can use it in the same way, pour on damage till you are red-lined, then speed away while you cool and repeat.

the 2B is another great mech, Run 5 medium pulse lasers and the thing is a monster, and deadly to come across. One of the best energy boats on IS side if you ask me. The only draw back is no weapons in the arms, so it limits your aim some times, But on the plus side, you can lower armor on the arms and add an extra heat sink, and just use them as shields, so if you loose one, the enemy basically just wasted 25+ damage.


The down side of cicada's are the cost, as they need XL engines to really shine. I run an XL-300 in 2 of um, and an XL-325 in my 3C


they are another set of mechs, that the hill climb module works fantastic it, as you can basically climb walls in canyon. (a commando and raven can pull this same feat with it as well)

Over all i love um, the 3M is part of my clan wars drop deck as well.

[N0D]

Just checkin' my status: still alive and doing a couple of matches/evening. Things are going sort of ok with HBK-4p 3xLPL's so far:

Spoiler

I've yet to decide if i should buy and use HBK-4J, or to slowly grind up to something bigger and nastier, like Thunderwub. Btw, actual sniping is no longer my thing. I came to conclusion, that "safer at long range" was only my imagination (damn those ... light mechs). Instead i go with a big group now, stay at second line, and do the peek-alpha-hide strategy. Because of that, i'm uncertain of my choice of future main mech. Again.

[JC Daxion]

Don't get the 4J, it's to nitch., get the 4SP, you can run the dual SRM or LRM builds, and it has a bunch of Medium lasers. I personally run SRM4's over 6's which i find too heavy/hot for the mech, i go with a 55toner for dual SRM6's in my wolverine. the 4SP is a kick butt brawler, but with LRM's it is more of a skirmisher.

The main reason being is you get to try a mech with out a hunch, and see how that works. the 4SP, can also run XL engines fairly well, especially with the armor buff on each torso side. If you find you really love the LRM's in it, you can always pick up a J later.


Grab a 4G or 4H for a third, you really need to check out how mechs play with elites, they are whole new mechs.. You can also drop a gauss or ac-20 or dual ac-5's in um.. Play around with the weapons and see what you like.

again, the larger AC's/gauss are brawlers, and 5/10's and gauss are skirmish mechs.

By the time you get to master in all 3, you should have a very nice chunch of C-bills, and used a lotta weapons and be more in a point that you know what you wanna get next.

lastly, the reason why people say put the large pulse in your hunch, is because good HBK players WILL always loose both arms, and left torso before going down loosing that hunch. So having your full firepower after all that, typically is better than the extra aiming you get from having weapons in arms.

with the new armor quirks, HBK's are one tough nut to crack when you can eat up over 150 damage in a medium and not loose a single weapon system.

[N0D]

Thank you for your input, JC Daxion. (btw, strangely enough, reading your name, somehow House Davion comes to mind. I wonder why )
I will consider it. However, one thing that's i'm against, is stacking LPL's in the hump. Vertical angles of that torso movement are horrible. I've been in some bad situations because of it. (yes, i already tried 3 weapons in the RT loadout)


Now for something, that was bugging me for awhile, and i couldn't (and can't yet) check it myself, because i never yet used rocket builds in MWO. According to this source http://mwo.gamepedia...ermeasure_(ECM) there are some interesting things going on about BAP, ECM and TAG:

Spoiler

Quote

By default, the ECM is in “disrupt” mode. While it is in this mode, it creates a bubble of sorts that scrambles enemy communications and sensor systems. ECM will also hide friendly 'Mechs within its range. Mechs carrying an ECM in disrupt mode are marked with an ECM icon.
---
All friendly Mechs (including the one with the ECM) within the range of an ECM in disrupt mode (180 m) are ‘cloaked’ from enemy sensors. Mechs that are hidden in this manner are marked with a symbol that looks like an eye.
---
When a Mech is hidden by a friendly ECM:
Enemy Mechs will have to come within 1/4 the normal distance (200 m instead of 800 m, by default) for hidden Mechs to show up on their battlegrid and HUD.
The Beagle Active Probe will extend this range.
It takes twice as long to achieve a missile lock against a hidden Mech.
Narc beacons will stick to hidden Mechs, but they won’t provide their normal bonuses until the Mech leaves the ECM’s range.
Artemis IV does not provide any bonuses against hidden Mechs.
---
When you enter the range of an enemy ECM in disrupt mode, your Mech will be cut off from communications with your teammates and some of your targeting equipment will cease to function. Mechs that are within the field of a hostile ECM are marked with a symbol that looks like low signal bars.
---
When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:
You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.
You cannot achieve any missile locks.
Your TAG laser can still fire but provides no bonuses.
Your battlegrid and targeting information will flicker.

If this all is true, then ECM is a terrifying thing. Example:
I, the lrm support, am walking at the second or third line of my group.
1. First-liners and scouts see small group of cloaked enemies 200+ meters away. Do i see their target on my radar? Answer: if they don't have BAP or TAG - NO. I see no one on radar and thus can't lock on and fire LRM.
2. Teammates enter 180-200 meter zone between the source of disruption. I now see an enemy on my radar and can lock on. HOWEVER... what is 20 meters for typical ECM carriers (fast lights and mediums) ? It's 1-3 seconds of movement at top speed. Not nearly enough for me to react, position myself, lock on and fire.
3. Teammates enter -180 meter zone. They can somewhat clearly see cloaked enemies on radar, but they CAN NOT give me this data. I again see no enemy mechs.
4. ECM carrier somehow walks near ME. (-180 range). I can't receive teammates data or lock on at all, including at those enemies, that are outside of the cloaking bubble, while TAG and ARTEMIS do nothing (?!)

...This is scary. I definitely need BAP and TAG to counter it at high and long range.
How about this HBK-4J then? (BTW, is C.A.S.E. even worth it, and should i put all the ammo at LT, or move it to legs and LT? I would prefer not to brawl, but peek-tag-lrm-hide instead. Oh, and no XL engine suggestions pretty please)

Edited by N0D, 09 September 2015 - 02:25 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Heh,, yea people do say that from time to time about my name, but actually it's a play on a name i started using in 2003 From an MMO with a little tweak. FYI, when i see your name i think "Nog" From Deep space nine..

but at any rate..

Typically in the 4J, people run a Tag in the head because more often than not, people go XL in the 4J, and when you blow a torso your dead anyway so no single laser in the head when you loose everything but your CT and can still keep going with a STD engine.

I get the limits of not using arms, But it really can help a lot for living longer. that said, I do like having weapons in arms, and use them on many builds. Just typically the 3 laser 4P, people go hunch, and then use both arms and left torso as damage soaking sheilds.


LRM's need at minimum tag, Though some people will use both tag and BAP, i tend to go one or the other, with tag being more useful because it can work at longer range. Streaks on the other hand are much more often used with BAP, But At times you can even add a BAP+tag for streaks to speed locks even further. I did this for a long time, but as of late i haven't used streaks much, so not sure if it is still worth double stacking them or not. (tag speeds lock) So faster mechs, often getting lock sooner helps you hit more often.



As for your build, I would drop the AMS, put some ammo in your Right arm, and add at least 3 ML's, protect that RT torso, use your left arm, and left torso as a shield with the STD set up.. You don't wan't ammo in your shield side. Also seeing you are going with an STD, Stick one laser in the head, then the other two in the torso, Stick the tag in your RT+ 2ML's, that way you will still have one laser if you loose both right and left torso.

you can skip the case too, spread the ammo out into the legs, right arm, head, and right torso.. You should use enough fast enough that you won't have much left in any place to blow up..

Edited by JC Daxion, 09 September 2015 - 02:52 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Acierocolotl, on 31 August 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

If you're going to snipe, your goal is to avoid getting hit, and you need speed to shoot and relocate.

That or bombard the enemy with so many hits and/or damage they have no idea what to do.

ie the infamous 6 x AC 2 jagermech, mauler, kingcrab, Direwolf, or the 6 x AC5 / UAC 5 Mauler, Direwolf/
3-4 can do this as mell but not as much as the sheer power of 6.
That or barrage of PPC's/ lasers. Sheer firepower would be enough to detour a normal person away from regreting to poke out to attack to begin with, no need to hide when the enemy is already flailing under your fire ^^

[N0D]

Hey there, it's me again. Doing mighty fine: bought three variants of Thunderbolt (and mastered all of them just for the heck of it), so my main is TDR-5SS... the notorious med pulse "Thunderwub". Damage is amazing on this thing, and also all of you, who were saying that elited mech "feels" like a complete different one, were right. Double the usual torso turning speed bonus helps shielding CT with side ones a lot. 9S feels underwhelming, despite double ERPPC's range and mech's quirks, while 9SE variant is sort of OK - its JJ's are a nice thing, though rarely needed.
Now for the actual question part. I'm planning to sell my HBK and buy a clanner (finally!), and i'm hesitating between EBJ, TBR, and HBR. There were some people in this thread who already prompted me those mechs, even with builds, but what i really want to know (if possible), which one of those listed mechs shall be most suitable all around AFTER the quirk system rework.
EBJ-PRIME seems something inbetween Hellbringer and Timber, has some nice space and free weight. Not sure about it's quirks - smurfy's list is empty. Lacks ECM and JJ, is wide and long. Side torso hardpoints are high... i think?
TBR-A is heavier, albeit runs at the same speed. JJ's may come in handy. So as slightly bigger amount of HS. But i assume, its "ears" are frequently the priority target, while hill-humping (LRM Catapult syndrome?). Nasty negative quirks. Is also wide and long, can't really shield with arms that well. I know, because i've encountered them as enemies quite a few times already.
HBR-PRIME. Tall. Shiny "head", that screams "my cockpit is here!". Tonnage is limited, but weapon loadout has almost the same firepower in most cases as the other two mechs. Not so wide, in fact, main firepower is stationed in torsos, so arms can be sacrificed. No negative quirks! (or are there?) Has ECM (!) Seriously, this last bit is quite important, because i still don't have a team and reliable ECM carrying friend, who will stick close to me in most battles.
What do you all think? Considering the fact, that i like Thunderwub now, which one of those clanners will do the trick for me?

[Modo44]

The Timber Wolf is still king. The other two are fun as well, but none have the raw power nor the sheer (useful) build variety. One problem, though. Once you start rolling in a TW, especially elited, the Thunderbolt will feel puny.