62 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

You guys here sure like talking about balance and whatnot. What ideas do you have on buffing the AC2 and UAC2? My first thoughts would be reducing their cooldown back to previous levels, as far as I can tell they no longer have ghost heat at least, they just run hot. Would be nice to maybe get some modules for the things too.

I simply like rapid fire weaponry and would love to see this weapon buffed. At the moment they seem to have quite a bit of heat for the damage they output, for a ballistic weapon at least. Also they have the same issues as any other ballistic weapon: ammo requirements and high weight.

I don't think we should be changing the weapon tonnages, and the heat issue can be left alone, but I ask what if the weapon had a lower cooldown? It would be able to output more damage in less time but also generate more heat during that time. Simply it would become a better weapon for bursts of damage... I mean everyone else is doing it anyway.

What are your ideas on them? Think they even need a buff? Think about the children KGC-000s!

Edited by Dakota1000, 31 August 2015 - 06:41 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

OP Please Nerf!

Also First,

Also Just Kidding on the Nerf Comment,

Edit-
But on Topic, From My AC2 Topic a wail Back,
(Would A Faster Cooldown On The Ac2 Make It A More Viable Choice? Discussion!)

Reduce all AC2s Cool-down by 28%(From 0.72 to 0.52),
also Reduce all AC2s Heat by 28%(From 1Heat to 0.72Heat),
Adding more DPS and allowing it to fire Continuously,

Weapon,.......Damage,...Velocity,...Heat,...Cool-down,...DPS,...
Current AC2......2............2000.........1..........0.72...........2.78...
New AC2............2............2000.......0.72.......0.52...........3.84...
(with the -12% cool-down Module it becomes= 0.46(4.35 DPS)
(with that & -5% cool-down Skill it becomes= 0.43(4.65 DPS)

i think this could open allot of possibilities for AC2s,
i feel more Lights & Mediums would take it for its DPS,
but remember, this New DPS comes with Full Face Time,

=Side Notes=
also give us our AC2/UAC2 Cool-down Modules,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 31 August 2015 - 06:46 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

The OP is OP, always gets first.

[Mcgral18]

Lower cooldown means even more heat.
4 DPS wasn't OP, but wasn't very useful either.


Cooldown means more for single mounts, but heat prevents boating aside from Lulzy builds.


So...

[Cyborne Elemental]

AC-2 DPS isn't bad where its at, its the heat and minimal gain in range that is still the problem.
Jam % is also really bad for UAC-2. Such an unreliable weapon.

Its sitting roughly at 215% heat compared to AC-5, and still less DPS with almost equivalent range damage for damage when compared to AC-5 at similar ranges.

There is no excuse for this.

Edited by Mister D, 31 August 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

As a side note, just think of a world in which Arctic Cheetas use an Ultra AC2 rather than a load of small pulse lasers.

[FupDup]

Dakota1000, on 31 August 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

As a side note, just think of a world in which Arctic Cheetas use an Ultra AC2 rather than a load of small pulse lasers.

I want a Protomech AC/8.

[Andi Nagasia]

Dakota1000, on 31 August 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

As a side note, just think of a world in which Arctic Cheetas use an Ultra AC2 rather than a load of small pulse lasers.

ACH will always use Lasers, it has enough Hardpoints and not enough tonnage,
However an 2UAC2 Adder/Shadow Cat would be Cool if it where Viable,

[Lugh]

Under performing weapons should also get a module that decreases the heat they generate. Which would then compete with cooldown and range modules in a meaningful way.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I'd really like to be able to use something other than lasers in an effective loadout with some of the current mechs, a light ballistic like the AC2/UAC2 could help me out. I mean most people don't even think between getting a large pulse laser or an AC2 yet both weigh the same (if you add one ton of ammo to the AC2).

[LordNothing]

i dont like that you have to boat them to really use them effectively. increasing their dps will make those boats more deadly (though they are kind of lack luster compared to u/ac5 builds). cooldown reduction would help. on mechs that have ac2 cd quirks they are significantly better. but a weapon shouldn't need to depend on quirks to be useful.

[Lugh]

I also never understood in BT why the base AC didn't come with ammo built in, they certainly weigh enough to mandate the equivalent of 2 tons ammo for 'free'...

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

LordNothing, on 31 August 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

i dont like that you have to boat them to really use them effectively. increasing their dps will make those boats more deadly (though they are kind of lack luster compared to u/ac5 builds). cooldown reduction would help. on mechs that have ac2 cd quirks they are significantly better. but a weapon shouldn't need to depend on quirks to be useful.

You wouldn't mind dropping the names and variants of the mechs with some of the good AC2 quirks would you...

EDIT: found the a panther and a blackjack with 25% better ballistics and AC2s respectively.

Edited by Dakota1000, 31 August 2015 - 07:09 PM.

[FupDup]

Lugh, on 31 August 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

I also never understood in BT why the base AC didn't come with ammo built in, they certainly weigh enough to mandate the equivalent of 2 tons ammo for 'free'...

Side note: Mechwarrior 4 actually has some "built in" ammo for every non-energy weapon. Unfortunately, it led to some situations like 2 LRM5 weighing about as much as a single LRM15...

However, MW4's ammo sometimes was counted against the tonnage of the gun, and sometimes it was literally "free."

Edited by FupDup, 31 August 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

An alternative is a ramped up burst mode. Say we go with a three shot burst, so 6.00 damage per burst with 2 damage per projectile.

Going with the stock time of 0.14 between each projectile in a burst, the full burst would be 0.42 seconds.
The cooldown can then be 1.72 (or near that number.)

DPS would be 2.80 and HPS goes down to 0.47 (from the current 1.39 HPS) with still having 1 Heat at that point per burst.

So increase the cooldown, DPS and HPS would go down further. Decrease the cooldown then DPS and HPS increase.

The Key is finding acceptable ratios between Damage and Heat, to then derive DPS and HPS.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Praetor Knight, on 31 August 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

An alternative is a ramped up burst mode. Say we go with a three shot burst, so 6.00 damage per burst with 2 damage per projectile.

wouldn't that just be a C-UAC6?

[Andi Nagasia]

the thing is with how the Chain Fire Mechanic is designed,
you cant fire Ballistics or Missiles faster than 0.6sec as its hard locked to that,

for an Example take an Elited WarHawk/Nova into Training Grounds Both with both Ballistic arms,(-25% cooldown)
Equip 2UAC2/2AC2 and a couple tons of ammo, take these Mechs into Training Grounds(map doesnt matter),
First Chain Fire your AC2s, after that just hold down Fire on one of your AC2s, you will notice the difference,

heat will stop Boating as even with less heat Mechs that use 5-6 AC2s will still run not after abit,
but Mechs mostly Light and Medium Mechs could really use a Faster Firing UAC2/AC2,

[Andi Nagasia]

Dakota1000, on 31 August 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

wouldn't that just be a C-UAC6?

Yes Just this,
i dont like the idea of giving it Burst Fire, make it fire Faster yes,
making it Burst changes how it ACs are established in MWO,

then people would Demand
my AC2 should Fire 10Shots(20Damage)
my AC5 should Fire 4Shots(20Damage)
my AC10 should Fire 2Shots(20Damage)
my AC20 should Fire 1Shots(20Damage)
it Changes the Dymanics of ACs in MWO,

now what about Clan ACs?
my AC2 should Fire 10Shots(20Damage)(Same)
my AC5 should Fire 8Shots(20Damage)(8@2.5)
my AC10 should Fire 7Shots(21Damage)(7@3)
my AC20 should Fire 4Shots(20Damage)(4@5)(Current)
it Changes the Dymanics of ACs in MWO,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 31 August 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Dakota1000, on 31 August 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

wouldn't that just be a C-UAC6?

Remember that we already have:

AC/27.8
AC/30
AC/40
Gauss 31.6
AC/50

As base values! Then adding Fast Fire, Cooldown Modules and Quirks, boosts those up further and then we have the Ultra mode too!

[FupDup]

Praetor Knight, on 31 August 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

Remember that we already have:

AC/27.8
AC/30
AC/40
Gauss 31.6
AC/50

As base values! Then adding Fast Fire, Cooldown Modules and Quirks, boosts those up further and then we have the Ultra mode too!

I really don't like it when people name Autocannons by their DPS because it entirely ignores their alpha-strike damage, which is arguably more important in most situations.

After all, the "AC/2" technically has the best DPS per ton of any ballistic, and yet it's probably the worst ballistic in the game because of having a nearly nonexistant alpha strike value.