17 replies to this topic

[Euklides]

Greetings

I have since I started this game wondered about the lack of more legs, then I had no prior knowledge of battletech and why this would be scarce lore wise.

But the thought lingered and still I find my self wanting more legs not only for the aesthetic, but also the depth of gameplay it may provide.

One of the things that it is said to have is sideways movement, something that current mechs can not do without turning their undercarriage. A simple thing that might provide interesting gameplay if of course balanced properly.

But what I always and still get stuck on is how the moment can be smoothly operated from a keyboard, if one had a joystick for movement then tilting it sideways would allow skittering in that direction, while tilting sideways and upwards would allow diagonal movement.
But how can this be done well on keyboard controls were W/S is used for forward motion ans A/D is used for yaw?

[Mazzyplz]

why would having a joystick give you strafe? you have to wait until your legs are pointing the right way anyhow, it doesn't matter if you use a joystick or not. using a joystick does not accelerate your overall turning rate

[Juodas Varnas]

Easiest way to make the Quadrupedal movement is using WASD for directional movement with 2 throttles:
WS-forward-reverse throttle,
AD-left to right throttle.
The torso position would be controlled with the mouse (and the entire gameplay would be more similar to other FPS (which some people might not like)

Even though my favorite mech is a quadruped (55ton IS Scorpion), i don't think they'd work very well in MW:O sadly (i'd still want them added, though), which is why, i'm very hopeful for them to be implemented into the upcoming BATTLETECH game by Harebrained Schemes

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 01 September 2015 - 11:44 PM.

[Euklides]

Mazzyplz, on 01 September 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

why would having a joystick give you strafe? you have to wait until your legs are pointing the right way anyhow, it doesn't matter if you use a joystick or not. using a joystick does not accelerate your overall turning rate

I am not sure if I was unclear in my post, or if am misunderstanding yours. But I do not speak of current mechs and their control scheme, but asking how the control scheme for quadrupedal mechs (four legs) might be implemented in this game.

[LordNothing]

i would just q,e the lateral movement, whatever those are assigned to can be relocated elsewhere. of course i dont care because i never touch the keyboard, though it would give me something to use the thumbstick on my ch throttle for.

[Euklides]

Juodas Varnas, on 01 September 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

Easiest way to make the Quadrupedal movement is using WASD for directional movement with 2 throttles:
WS-forward-reverse throttle,
AD-left to right throttle.
The torso position would be controlled with the mouse (and the entire gameplay would be more similar to other FPS (which some people might not like)

I've thought of this, but would it not limit the possibility of quadrupedal mechs with turnable upper bodies. As the mouse movement would then be occupied for yaw?

[Impyrium]

EDIT: NM misunderstood the OP.

Strafing would be interesting to have in MWO though. MechWarrior games haven't really moved past 'tanks with bobbing leg animations' if you think about it, especially MWO.

Edited by Dingo Red, 01 September 2015 - 11:56 PM.

[Euklides]

LordNothing, on 01 September 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

i would just q,e the lateral movement, whatever those are assigned to can be relocated elsewhere.

This might be the most close at hand solution but it would still be kinda fiddly to run diagonally lets say, forward right and then trying to turn the body right, that would be 3 button inputs that would force you to shift your hand position in a rather ackward way and might make quick manoeuvres rather stiff...

[Juodas Varnas]

Euklides, on 01 September 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

I've thought of this, but would it not limit the possibility of quadrupedal mechs with turnable upper bodies. As the mouse movement would then be occupied for yaw?

Quadrupedal mechs don't usually have torso-twist.

[Paigan]

Descent had full movement in all 3 dimensions: sliding sideways and upwards.
Control by keyboard is simple: have 6 buttons (back then i had A<->Z for forward and backward, S<->X for up and down, Ctrl<->Alt for left and right).
If you hold forward and right together, you go diagonally.

Takes a little more skill and training than just having 2 buttons, of course, but works like a charm.

[Euklides]

Juodas Varnas, on 02 September 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

Quadrupedal mechs don't usually have torso-twist.

Now, I might be speaking our of my arse, but I have faint memory regarding several bipedal mechs having locked torsos in TT or whatever source spawned them, but receiving torso turn capabilities once implemented in MWO, thus going by the same rule that these might receive it too. But having locked torsi as a balancing factor might be a good idea.
But lets play with the prospect that they have turnable torsi(?) and how that would be handled control wise.

[Euklides]

Paigan, on 02 September 2015 - 12:12 AM, said:

Descent had full movement in all 3 dimensions: sliding sideways and upwards.
Control by keyboard is simple: have 6 buttons (back then i had A<->Z for forward and backward, S<->X for up and down, Ctrl<->Alt for left and right).

Much like LordNothing said, basically adding q/e would give us those options. I guess in order to see how the ease of use in this game is where several keymappings might be needed to use while moving (override, freelook, map, JJ, additional weapongroups, whateverIforgot) is simply difficult to judge until it gets tested.

[Juodas Varnas]

Euklides, on 02 September 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

Now, I might be speaking our of my arse, but I have faint memory regarding several bipedal mechs having locked torsos in TT or whatever source spawned them, but receiving torso turn capabilities once implemented in MWO, thus going by the same rule that these might receive it too. But having locked torsi as a balancing factor might be a good idea.
But lets play with the prospect that they have turnable torsi(?) and how that would be handled control wise.

That is also true, some bipedal mechs (like the Nova) didn't have torso-twist (however, it was only as an optional rule), but when it comes to quadrupeds, they don't have torso twist, period. (Unless you're using some of the later rulesets that allow equipping quads with turrets that give them torso twist)

[Troutmonkey]

WS - forward/back
AD - turn left /right
QE - strafe left right

or, as mentioned before, lock torso to legs. The downside is that dealing with arms, and turning feeling really crap. Try enabling arm lock and turning your mech - feels far too stiff.

[Vellron2005]

Euklides, on 01 September 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

Greetings

I have since I started this game wondered about the lack of more legs, then I had no prior knowledge of battletech and why this would be scarce lore wise.

But the thought lingered and still I find my self wanting more legs not only for the aesthetic, but also the depth of gameplay it may provide.

One of the things that it is said to have is sideways movement, something that current mechs can not do without turning their undercarriage. A simple thing that might provide interesting gameplay if of course balanced properly.

But what I always and still get stuck on is how the moment can be smoothly operated from a keyboard, if one had a joystick for movement then tilting it sideways would allow skittering in that direction, while tilting sideways and upwards would allow diagonal movement.
But how can this be done well on keyboard controls were W/S is used for forward motion ans A/D is used for yaw?

Same as in ANY other First Person Shooter... if you wanna strafe, press "ALT" or "SHIFT" or whatever button you designate, and then use the W/D buttons..

[Euklides]

Vellron2005, on 02 September 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

Same as in ANY other First Person Shooter... if you wanna strafe, press "ALT" or "SHIFT" or whatever button you designate, and then use the W/D buttons..

I might not have played a lot of fps shooters, but the notion of an alternate toggle for strafing is new to me. But would not that impede your manoeuvrability regarding yawing the undercarriage as you strafe? Since the buttons would be unavailable due to the toggle?

[Tarogato]

I would think A <-> D would be strafe, and the mouse would turn the legs, so it would just be like a traditional shooter. Treat the legs as 360 torso twist and the WASD is always relative to the direction you're facing. If A and D are treated as throttles just like W and S are, then the F key could function as "set strafe throttle to zero" and the C key could function as "center legs to current trajectory".

Animating those leg movements might be a nightmare, though.

Edited by Tarogato, 02 September 2015 - 02:46 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Tarogato, on 02 September 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

I would think A <-> D would be strafe, and the mouse would turn the legs, so it would just be like a traditional shooter. Treat the legs as 360 torso twist and the WASD is always relative to the direction you're facing. If A and D are treated as throttles just like W and S are, then the F key could function as "set strafe throttle to zero" and the C key could function as "center legs to current trajectory".

Animating those leg movements might be a nightmare, though.

Yup. My thoughts exactly.

However without great animations (which are very hit or miss, nowadays, some mechs have great, others look like trash) and inverse kinematics (which were removed to help people with PCs that have the equivalent power of a potato) they'd be impossible to make them look good.