65 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

teammates that walk in front of you to try and kill steal deserve what they get

Although I mostly blame the stats page putting such emphasis on kills and kill death ratio. its dumb. it promotes selfish behavior instead of teamwork.

they need to get rid of assists entirely. instead they should award fractional kills based on how much damage you did to the enemy mech thats destroyed. So if you did 90% of the damage you get .9 kills. Regardless of who gets the kill shot.

That would eliminate kill stealing entirely... and youd get kills based purely on how much damage you did to the enemy mech.

Edited by Khobai, 02 September 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[Thorqemada]

FYI: There is no Killstealing - there is only Finishing Blow Assistance!

An by dear Coordinator - i see many games beeing lost for nobody capable of finishing off dead red Mechs...

Edited by Thorqemada, 02 September 2015 - 06:08 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I hate those moments when I fire a shot into an enemy mech, he dies, but then the rest of the beam/stream of bullets goes through the wreck and kills a teammate behind it. I've killed two allies like that, I wish they wouldn't face hug so close.

As a side note I also hate when I'm in an assault mech packing heavy firepower about to take a shot when some mech walks infront of me just to swipe a medium lasers over the target out past optimal range... I really should try coordinating with an actual group.

Protip: Don't stand behind or infront of an enemy mech if it means you will be in an allied firing line.

[Khereg]

Chados, on 02 September 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Blue-on-blue accidents happen. I get that. But doesn't it suck when you're the shooter even though it's really an accident?

Um....yes.... I really hate that and actively go out and do penance whenever it...uh...accidentally happens.


<walks away whistling>

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Fun fact: if you did less than five team damage, you likely didn't even do it with weapons- the game counts damage done by collision as team damage for both parties if they're teammates, even when the other player clearly ran into you. The only way to get no team damage at all is to never collide with another friendly 'Mech, and also never have a friendly 'Mech collide with you.

I haven't accidentally TK'd in a long time, even when using large ballistics. After running into the no dorito bug a few times before it got fixed, I got a lot more careful with where I place my shots, and frequently check the minimap to see if anything's likely to cross in front of me. I also don't drive heavies or assaults much, so my chance of one-shotting a teammate by accident is also pretty low- I only have a few 'Mechs that deal more than 40 FLD, and I've gotten very, very good at twitching my lasers into the ground or the air when something I don't want to kill runs across them.

I don't tend to get mad when someone TKs me, though. It's usually pretty clear that it was an accident. If it was my accident that got my own dumb arse killed, then I apologize for it. Otherwise, I try to say something like "np" or "no worries" if they apologize. No sense getting worked up over it unless the shot was clearly deliberate- and then a "thanks for the screenshot, hope PGI likes it too" will suffice.

Edited by PS WrathOfDeadguy, 02 September 2015 - 10:06 PM.

[627]

Back when we all played planetside2, I was the tank driver in our vanu unit. For everyone unfamiliar with it, it was a hover tank that could sidestrafe, no other tank could do that. So in those battles and after the fights there were many infantry players around and you just couldn't get out there without driving them over.
For the first kills you get a warning, after pressing 10 or so teammates in the ground your weapons get locked for some minutes.
Needless to say I got my weapon locked every 2 or 3 days at least once. This ended in a running joke, no matter what game we played after that, look out for me if you're on my team

So with this backstory, I gained some kind of serenity if I teamkill someone. It is a pity, yes. But it happens so move on. Especially in close quarters.

And just to clarify, it is not that I don't care if I hit my team, I actively try to avoid that in MWO. But you can't swing the flying AC20 away like a laser so sometimes it just happens.


Most embarrasing TK for me, btw, was a locust.
We played on HPG, only one enemy left and we made out a 1vs1 on chat. Sure, pug live so I hurried up to get to him. But then a locust ran past me to him. I really tried to shoot the enemy but that zickzacking locust ran right into my beams.
chat was kinda hilarious after that...

Edited by 627, 02 September 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I try and try to be careful about this, but it DOES happen now and then. I think I've TK'd maybe three times since Open Beta, but I know I must've done THOUSANDS of points in team damage, and I HATE doing that.

I also hate BEING damaged by team.

River City, an hour-ish ago. Drop in on the lower city side of the map, in Assault. Move a few steps forward, stop, turn left, wait for friendlies to start moving. SURE ENOUGH, one of 'em in a Firestarter bumps me and ambers my leg. We're THREE SECONDS on ground and I'm already down a couple points of armor, in an already lightly-armored mech. DEWD!

Elsewhere, had a friendly in a Griffin (I think?) step in front of my would-be kill shot, and took half of my cUAC/10 burst in the back. Had an EBJ do the same on that same drop, I think, taking a little love in the LTR (or maybe I misjudged firing, because I was zoomed, and wasn't clear for the shot).

It's more fun to make the opponents team-damage each other. If your light is dying, and you want to give your friendlies an opportunity, you run into the midst of the heaviest enemies, and get them to turn their fire on you, occasionally missing and hitting one another in their scramble to kill the squirrel. Lotsa fun.

So also, there's one more reason NOT to pay the squirrel any more attention than you absolutely must. Team damage. It's what's for dinner.

[Juodas Varnas]

627, on 02 September 2015 - 10:25 PM, said:

Back when we all played planetside2, I was the tank driver in our vanu unit. For everyone unfamiliar with it, it was a hover tank that could sidestrafe, no other tank could do that.

Oh sh*t!
I remember the Vanu tanks in Planetside.

The way they worked, would be PERFECT for implementing Quadrupeds! (since you know, other tanks there function like bipedal mechs with back and forward movement and a turret, when the Vanu tanks didn't have rotating turrets, but could sidestrafe (and as far as i recall, were considered to be OP AS F*CK!)

Oh man, oh man!

[FlipOver]

Troutmonkey, on 02 September 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Watch the video again. The Atlas waltzed up after I got there, and I didn't see him at all as I was approaching. As a brawler light, I need to be close. My lance mate on comms was calling for assistance so I rushed to help him, he was already engaged and waiting for support wouldn't have helped anyone. Ultimately I too late anyway, but it's hardly fair to blame me for being there in the first place.

The Atlas was going around the center hill when you landed. I understand how you missed it, but the map should also be an indicator for you.
I understand any brawler needs to be close, but a light mech is fragile as you know. And it's also a much faster mech to position and to change position when needed.
Due to that, usually any light mech that gets popped out from behind (due to FF) is an indication of poor positioning from the light mech pilot.
You had lots more options, you could even goto the ground level, to the enemies backs, and engage them making them turn their backs to your team.
I know, it's not fair to blame the light mech pilot for something like this, but as I also pilot light mechs I know how easier it is for them to change location or positioning compared to the heavier mechs.
A light pilot has one of the hardest tasks on the battlefield, and know how to position to help without getting in the way of other mechs is hard and a very important task.

[Sarlic]

I always zoom in with my Atlas to line up better shots. The view is already pisspoor when zoomed out.

Just dont run in front of Assaults. It's really that simple, but most people dont follow and complain when i alpha their backs.

My super duper holy pro tip: Play around Assaults.

Edited by Sarlic, 03 September 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[Troutmonkey]

FlipOver, on 02 September 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

The Atlas was going around the center hill when you landed. I understand how you missed it, but the map should also be an indicator for you.
I understand any brawler needs to be close, but a light mech is fragile as you know. And it's also a much faster mech to position and to change position when needed.
Due to that, usually any light mech that gets popped out from behind (due to FF) is an indication of poor positioning from the light mech pilot.
You had lots more options, you could even goto the ground level, to the enemies backs, and engage them making them turn their backs to your team.
I know, it's not fair to blame the light mech pilot for something like this, but as I also pilot light mechs I know how easier it is for them to change location or positioning compared to the heavier mechs.
A light pilot has one of the hardest tasks on the battlefield, and know how to position to help without getting in the way of other mechs is hard and a very important task.

Everything happened during a 5 second period, and during that period I was completely focused on trying to save my lance mate. No pilot's were engaged when I started attacking, so there was no one for me to be in the way of. The Atlas would have clearly seen me on the ridge as he approached. It was an unfortunate accident that really only could have been prevented by the Atlas pilot not be zoomed in - I was on his left and had to pass all the way across his right where I was hit by the AC20 round. If he had been zoomed out he would have seen me coming across in time to decide not to shoot, even then I may have been too fast.

If I was shot blocking and leg humping an already engaged target, you might have a point for blaming the victim here, but I don't think you can really blame me for this one.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 03 September 2015 - 02:59 AM.

[FlipOver]

Troutmonkey, on 03 September 2015 - 02:57 AM, said:

Everything happened during a 5 second period, and during that period I was completely focused on trying to save my lance mate. No pilot's were engaged when I started attacking, so there was no one for me to be in the way of. The Atlas would have clearly seen me on the ridge as he approached. It was an unfortunate accident that really only could have been prevented by the Atlas pilot not be zoomed in - I was on his left and had to pass all the way across his right where I was hit by the AC20 round. If he had been zoomed out he would have seen me coming across in time to decide not to shoot, even then I may have been too fast.

If I was shot blocking and leg humping an already engaged target, you might have a point for blaming the victim here, but I don't think you can really blame me for this one.

Positioning is key.
Again, you could of gone by lower ground level to their backs and bait half of them to turn their backs to your team (helping your team and teammate).
Your survival instinct prevailed and you found the safest place to pop-shot them. Problem with that is, that place was also safe for heavier mechs with much more firepower.

I do not see a light pilots roll to be at the front line trading shots from cover, but at the enemies backs, making the enemy forces split or at the very least, less engaged forward.

Simple thing, the same way you see a spot as a good one for you to be hitting the enemy, another much heavier can see it and with much more firepower would also want to use that spot. If you are there, you are either blocking the access or getting shot by a teammate.

Again, I said on the first post, people shouldn't be zoomed all the time and have some awareness to what's around them, but even I, piloting a light mech, have been TKd from the back for bad positioning (and/or poor timing) and I managed to understand that and figure best ways to help the team rather than spotting the best places I could find in range for ME to shoot with less than 40 dmg alphas.

Edit - Sure, my match score will be low, but I'd rather have a lower match score and win than a huge one and lose.

TL:DR - Both are to blame in my eyes, sorry but it's how I see it. The assault for being zoomed without need. The light for bad positioning in regards of his fellow teammates.

Edited by FlipOver, 03 September 2015 - 03:17 AM.

[Yokaiko]

FlipOver, on 03 September 2015 - 03:15 AM, said:

Edit - Sure, my match score will be low, but I'd rather have a lower match score and win than a huge one and lose.

The loss pays better, in the solo queue that is really all that matters.

[FlipOver]

Yokaiko, on 03 September 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

The loss pays better, in the solo queue that is really all that matters.

Single player mentality has no place on a team-based game. But people keep trying to keep that mentality and then complain about being grouped with clueless people. They may not be that clueless, they may actually be expert players for themselves, just not for the team.

[Vellron2005]

Chados, on 02 September 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

River City. A confused melee at the foot of the cathedral, on the riverfront. I'm taking aim at an Atlas.

My lancemate in a Thunderbolt steps in front of me, not realizing I was there, just as I'm firing four Large Lasers. My teamie took my 38-point alpha right in the middle of his back CT (heavily quirked mech, no light saber action here) and went down. I had to run for it to keep the Atlas from doing unto me as I was trying to to to him, while my lasers reset.

I felt awful about that. I even apologized over voicechat. He was cool because he'd done it to me in the previous match (I wasn't aware of that, I thought it was the enemy that backshot me).

Blue-on-blue accidents happen. I get that. But doesn't it suck when you're the shooter even though it's really an accident? I don't think I've ever had an intentional troll on me with this. I've had a couple embarrassing incidents, though, for both parties. In a confused melee, almost anything can happen.

Yesterday, I'm taking a stroll on the Mining Collective in my new Executioner... and I'm trying to position myself to shoot the enemy.. and this friendly Atlas is in my way.. so he voips "Move Executioner".. I take a few seconds to process this information, and promptly move.. ok, this is good, He was retreating.. I'll move.. no biggy... As I once again start to move up, I actually see the enemy, and fire my 4 ERSML+2ERLL alpha at it, but in that very instant, a friendly decides it would be a good idea to run infront of an Executioner's barrels.. so HE, and not the enemy, takes my 42 point alpha and promptly goes down..

I'm polite enough to apologise at the end of the match, but I'm not sorry.. Its his own damn fault.. don't stand in front of an Executioner.. EVER.

To be honest, it was HE who should apologise.. he took 10.000 Cbills, and a 150 XP of my final score..

Edited by Vellron2005, 03 September 2015 - 05:10 AM.

[Yokaiko]

FlipOver, on 03 September 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

Single player mentality has no place on a team-based game. But people keep trying to keep that mentality and then complain about being grouped with clueless people. They may not be that clueless, they may actually be expert players for themselves, just not for the team.

Damage = money period.

Win a conq match by saving the day last mech, and point out but no damage you get nada.

Don't hate the players hate the game.

Edited by Yokaiko, 03 September 2015 - 05:16 AM.

[SaltBeef]

I think I have only had 1 or maybe 2 team kills . 1 was because of the no dorito but the mech on the other side of target had red at distance bug. The other was due to a weapons Alpha while setting up weapons groups, for some reason sometimes while setting up weapons groups it will alpha when you hit the CNTRL key. The Potential for a TK is still there as I run into endless CCKBlockers oblivious to my firing lane. I get into a good position, start to fire at a enemy and as soon as I hit the R key to see weak components a Dippityshart will walk right in front of me just as I start to unload on the target, Was really bad yesterday for this, I counted 4 times in 1 match where this almost happened. Have some situational awareness folks. I know now why people do not R key it draws in CCKBlockers.

Edited by SaltBeef, 03 September 2015 - 05:30 AM.

[FlipOver]

Yokaiko, on 03 September 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

Damage = money period.

Win a conq match by saving the day last mech, and point out but no damage you get nada.

Don't hate the players hate the game.

I know, but the team wins (can't even count how many matches I've won by doing almost no damage on either conquest or any other mode, but doing enough to split the enemy, bait them, scout / target them, etc).

We are discussing 2 different points of view.
Yours - Do whatever needs to be done to get payed.
Mine - Do whatever needs to be done to win the match.

Both are correct in their own way.
I disagree with the first as I play this game to win, and you disagree with the last as you play this game to get c-bills.

It's just a matter of priorities, really.

Then it all comes full circle when you (or someone like you) advocates they are in a light mech and others need to pay attention to where you shoot at, and when someone like me says the light pilot has no place on the front lines or on better positioning when heavier mechs with more firepower would get a better job done on the same position.

[Hotthedd]

[Yokaiko]

FlipOver, on 03 September 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

I know, but the team wins (can't even count how many matches I've won by doing almost no damage on either conquest or any other mode, but doing enough to split the enemy, bait them, scout / target them, etc).

We are discussing 2 different points of view.
Yours - Do whatever needs to be done to get payed.
Mine - Do whatever needs to be done to win the match.

Both are correct in their own way.
I disagree with the first as I play this game to win, and you disagree with the last as you play this game to get c-bills.

It's just a matter of priorities, really.

Then it all comes full circle when you (or someone like you) advocates they are in a light mech and others need to pay attention to where you shoot at, and when someone like me says the light pilot has no place on the front lines or on better positioning when heavier mechs with more firepower would get a better job done on the same position.

solo queue get paid.
Group queue as well, but I do that in equal parts screwing off and hanging out.
CW play to win.

The solo queue to me exists to get paid, playing to win with one hand behind your back (pugs) is not only frustrating, it raises your blood pressure.