14 replies to this topic

[D A T A]

Timber and stormcrow nerfs should be removed: actually an ebon Jaguar or a tdr 5ss are better than a timberwolf.

clan laser duration is riddicolous and should be reduced a lot.

if you want to keep clan laser beam so long, at least increase the range or reduce the heat

[Sarlic]

Are you even serious? These both are handsdown still very good.

[Event Horizon]

Disagree.

Those mechs don't need any help. If you think they do it is YOU that needs help.

[Better Call Saul]

You should 1vs1 each other I would watch that.

[D A T A]

what are they going to 1vs1, if they do not even understand what i say........they must be some kind of 1,5 kd newbies

[bad arcade kitty]

what, is it a post from the past?

[sandworm16]

TBR and SCR needed nerfs, but the laser duration just made them unfun to play. Cooldown and mobility nerfs would have been ok... waiting on a 2 second burn time is ridiculous.

[Spare Parts Bin]

CERPPCs need a speed quirk bad and Clan Gauss should be effective at 1000 meters with no drop( it goes without saying they should sync).

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 04 September 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Timber & Crow have gone to other builds that are still effective, just never tried before nerfs were in.

Lasers do not need a buff, learn to use them in the right builds.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I stand by my original post but JJs should be unnerfed.

[Lily from animove]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 04 September 2015 - 12:43 AM, said:

what are they going to 1vs1, if they do not even understand what i say........they must be some kind of 1,5 kd newbies

the question is more like: why unnerf them? they are still some of the strongest clanmechs. WTF is about the others?

[Nightshade24]

Eugenics, on 02 September 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Disagree.

Those mechs don't need any help. If you think they do it is YOU that needs help.

Well I disagree with the OP. I do think these mechs need help in the form of adding quirks that isn't really related to the large pulse/ gauss/ er mediums...

What ever happened to the clasical LRM 20's?... Machine guns? What about the less famous UAC 5 on the C? the ER PPC's on the D and A? the SRM's on the D, A or the LRM 15 of the C?

I can think 99 ways to quirk a timberwolf to give it more viarity without making it more 'competitive' or 'op'. Sure people can complain you may see more timberwolfs- but the thing is who would complain about a duel LRM 20, duel machine gun, and mixed laser timberwolf? or a timberwolf with a singular UAC 5 and some Streaks? or a Timberwolf D with nice ER PPC quirks (that is locked to the omnipod set bonus forcing it at a min of 2 and at a low arm mounts instead of high side torso)

These mechs need help in the form that the quirks do NOT support the creativity or viarity that the quirks do for other mechs.

Why should I take a Timberwolf prime over a C, A, or D? Why should I keep the stock omnipods on any of them? What is even the difference between the omnipods besides the A having a side torso of a direwolf?

Stormcrow to a degree isn't that bad- but the C with the LBX 10 would appreciate some form of non Gauss quirk. I would say targeting the regular AC (aka "slug LBX") and regular lBX to support the lore build because at the momment a centurion D with the exact same build as a stormcrow would still win in a fight if we use a build remotely related to the stock. Granted the Centurion D is one of 'those' mechs with a 50% quirk which should not exist on any mech. But even then with those quirks down by 50% (so 25% quirk for LBX 10) it would still beat the stormy crow with any LBX number... wouldn't mind a mild fire rate, heat, and spread quirk (only mild for those 3- maybe make 1 entirely locked to omnipod set bonus?) or the UAC 20 on the A or the NARC on the D.


This is more of the basis of ballancing the other options for the omnimechs- people forget that the other omnipods exist and clan mechs have the right to use every omnipod option the same way IS mechs have the right to use every variant. Such as using the Hunchback 4G instead of the hunchback 4H or the Locust 1V over the locust 3V.

Granted- my problems with the timby is not related to it's energy (well besides the fact it nerfs small lasers, small pulse, medium pulse, flamer, tag, etc builds... who the hell nerfs the FLAMER at it's current state?... anyway my point is PGI needs to work with the heat system instead of weird ghost heat and broad penalties for the timberwolf because apparently 6 Small pulse, 4 er medium lasers, is apparently to OP but 4 ER medium lasers and 2 large pulse isn't....)

[Nightshade24]

Lily from animove, on 07 September 2015 - 12:38 AM, said:

the question is more like: why unnerf them? they are still some of the strongest clanmechs. WTF is about the others?

agreed.

I think part of the OP is thinking over the whole clans- which if you look at the ER medium laser quirks... you no longer see 12 er medium laser novas... you barely see 6 er medium laser novas or 12 small laser novas...
Or the summoner: the D still virtually heat neutral on most situations in lore- overheats like wildfire in MW: O.

I still think there should be a form of a point system to clan mech heatsinks for omnimechs. no Ferro? +0.1 heatsink effeciency (excluding engine heatsinks), no Endo? +0.2 heatsink efficiency (excluding engine heatsinks). so instead of nerfed DHS for the nova which has neither going at 1.4, it would be at 1.7. May be OP but it actually nests it quite neatly to the Hunchback 4P which still has many advantages such as no ghost heat on small lasers, small pulse, or medium pulse (or in links), as well as 7 of the lasers being high. Granted it's side torso is easy to hit- so is the novas arms.

However those are just example numbers and I think reducing it maybe to 0.5 for no Ferro and 1.0 for no endo... why? It may work well for the nova... but the direwolf I should remind you has no ES or FF... and hellbringer has no ES. To a degree possibly making a clan tier list for heatsink or quirk effectiveness and adjust from there slightly.


This change would be the best to fix most clan mechs because the majority are lacking in ES/ EF / hardpoint quantity/ location to be on par with the Timberwolf, Ebon jaguar, etc. I want to see a day when a person looks at an EXE, Summoner, or a gargoyle- and sees a mobile 1 ticket to death if you are not careful instead of duck shooting a mech with equal firepower to a IS mech 10 to 20 tons lighter. I think we need to do clan to clan balancing before we do clan to IS ballancing. Because if we 'ballance' clan to IS before clan to clan- then we get 90% of the clan mechs unloved/ underpowered and 10% OP.

Spare Parts Bin, on 04 September 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

I stand by my original post but JJs should be unnerfed.

I think I heard mentions of JJ quirks for some mechs (ie highlander) earlier. on top of this I wonder if a clan mech with hardwired JJ's should be already obliged to quirks for it.... mechs with full and unreplacable JJ gets better quirks then ones that can switch them in and out. Omnipod set bonus will match the full JJ quirked omnimechs for the mecsh that got those JJ (ie Timberwolf S (should I remind you no meta timberwolf has more then 2JJ and do not use the S stock omnipods of B +2M side torsoes and energy only in the arms), Direwolf S, Kitfox S.... why so many S got JJ's?)

[Lily from animove]

Nightshade24, on 07 September 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

agreed.

I think part of the OP is thinking over the whole clans- which if you look at the ER medium laser quirks... you no longer see 12 er medium laser novas... you barely see 6 er medium laser novas or 12 small laser novas...
Or the summoner: the D still virtually heat neutral on most situations in lore- overheats like wildfire in MW: O.

I still think there should be a form of a point system to clan mech heatsinks for omnimechs. no Ferro? +0.1 heatsink effeciency (excluding engine heatsinks), no Endo? +0.2 heatsink efficiency (excluding engine heatsinks). so instead of nerfed DHS for the nova which has neither going at 1.4, it would be at 1.7. May be OP but it actually nests it quite neatly to the Hunchback 4P which still has many advantages such as no ghost heat on small lasers, small pulse, or medium pulse (or in links), as well as 7 of the lasers being high. Granted it's side torso is easy to hit- so is the novas arms.

However those are just example numbers and I think reducing it maybe to 0.5 for no Ferro and 1.0 for no endo... why? It may work well for the nova... but the direwolf I should remind you has no ES or FF... and hellbringer has no ES. To a degree possibly making a clan tier list for heatsink or quirk effectiveness and adjust from there slightly.


This change would be the best to fix most clan mechs because the majority are lacking in ES/ EF / hardpoint quantity/ location to be on par with the Timberwolf, Ebon jaguar, etc. I want to see a day when a person looks at an EXE, Summoner, or a gargoyle- and sees a mobile 1 ticket to death if you are not careful instead of duck shooting a mech with equal firepower to a IS mech 10 to 20 tons lighter. I think we need to do clan to clan balancing before we do clan to IS ballancing. Because if we 'ballance' clan to IS before clan to clan- then we get 90% of the clan mechs unloved/ underpowered and 10% OP.


I think I heard mentions of JJ quirks for some mechs (ie highlander) earlier. on top of this I wonder if a clan mech with hardwired JJ's should be already obliged to quirks for it.... mechs with full and unreplacable JJ gets better quirks then ones that can switch them in and out. Omnipod set bonus will match the full JJ quirked omnimechs for the mecsh that got those JJ (ie Timberwolf S (should I remind you no meta timberwolf has more then 2JJ and do not use the S stock omnipods of B +2M side torsoes and energy only in the arms), Direwolf S, Kitfox S.... why so many S got JJ's?)

I don't know if this would help, take a stock NVA, it will always be too hot, and a 8 CEMRL NVA will always be the prefered build even if you change cooling, because then the 8ML NVA is still going to be superior. But at leats some heatimporvement would amke the NVA heatwise perform better than the SCR.
othewise PGI would need some dynamical heatquirks, like for every ERML in the NVA you get 1,5% less heat production. this would mean 12 CERML gets you 18% while having 8 only 12%. But even this would be borderline pointless since 8CERML + 4DHS just outrule this heatefficiency.

Guess we have to say goodbye to stockmechs in general, they will never be good at all unless PGI decides to give some heavy negative quirks on modified mechs. And doing this would make a lot people mad I guess.

on the other side, some "native" quirks, for evey equipment piece being in its original place granting some bonus would be cool, it would prefer mechs to their base config, yet allows alterations. or give a significant beam reduction, like 0,2 seconds if used with every weapon in its "stock wepaon"slot. so that only armor or internal adjustments are possible without altering the beneficial quirks.

and yes interpod balance is a big issues, they currently hardly exist and hardly allow to "choose tactical" they just all have a clear winner an loser.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 September 2015 - 04:47 AM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Well it seems other clan mechs now have positive bumps. Instead of nerfing them, why not bring other mechs up to a similar standard.

Timber is an exceedingly good mech, it can do everything and quickly. The crow is the same, even with the nerfs I was pounding people to death with both (ya just gotta get more creative).

It'd be nice to un-nerf them to standard and bring everything else up to have a purpose.

IMO It seems bumps bring out variants nicely in IS mechs. Clan mechs are harder given the omni situation but you can still do a similar point.