167 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 02 September 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

Not broken technically, just smaller than on anything with comparable firepower and/or overall hit points. That's still unbalanced though.

Are you saying that the ACH's hit boxes should be 2-10x its visual dimensions, similar to what was done to the Raven?

Prof RJ Gumby, on 02 September 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

It's also quite hard to kill a spider, but then, it is equally hard for spiders to actually damage other mechs properly with those puny weaponry. This is why there is no rage against spiders.

Based on your join date, you were obviously not here when players were raging against spiders soon after their release.

Edited by Mystere, 03 September 2015 - 10:21 AM.

[Mystere]

Leguvan, on 03 September 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

As a light pilot, saying that the light class is my favorite to play, it is very apparent that the majority of people do not know how to effectively deal with a light mech that is on their ass. This is part of the problem but I also think the ACH needs to be taken down a peg.

FTFY.

[Jalthibuster]

Even though i'm happy that clans have finally something that is able to compete with the FS which are still a pest, i have to admit the ACH feels indeed OP as it is right now imho. I have an average K/D of 2.24 but after 192 games with the cheater i'm at 3.91 and i've never really felt comfortable with lights - or considered myself better than average piloting them in general. Haven't ever played the FS though.

[AlphaToaster]

Confirmed: Clans can't have nice lights.

To be optimistic, I hope they just tone down/remove the structure quirks on the legs. That seems like the best way to stop it. Most of the time when I see one with low %, both of its legs are ripped up but not destroyed. As soon as one of those pops the mech is done.

[FupDup]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 02 September 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

It's also quite hard to kill a spider, but then, it is equally hard for spiders to actually damage other mechs properly with those puny weaponry. This is why there is no rage against spiders.

Bro, do you even forums?

The Spider has had a huge level of rage directed against it over the years, and still to this very day...in this very thread.

However, the truth of the matter is that even during the so-called "broken Spider" days that many forumwarriors lament about, the Jenner was the competitively superior mech because of having vastly superior firepower (literally 100% more, twice as many hardpoints!). The Spidey has been outclassed by at least some other light mech since the first day it was released, and it has never been meta-compliant (the 5D variant is barely passable)...and in spite of being a troll mech, people STILL call it overpowered even today. It's quite facepalm-worthy.

AlphaToaster, on 03 September 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

Confirmed: Clans The game as a whole can't have nice lights.

Fixed.

Edited by FupDup, 03 September 2015 - 07:18 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

FupDup, on 03 September 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Um, no, the predicted best mech of Wave 3 was the Cauldron Born.

PS: The Shadow Cat also shipped with quirks, but they weren't enough to save it from mediocrity...

Njae... though it's not really possible to compare a light to a heavy for goodness, at least my prediction was that in terms of hardpoints and geometry the ACH and EBJ were on equal terms, but then the ACH was getting ECM (and JJ) and speed while the EBJ is in the lower end of the heavy tier a bit weak on armor though lots of pod space... anyways, call it a draw? At least we can agree that the ACH was not the clan mech in wave 3 that needed quirks the most....

[Duke Nedo]

To be fair, the same could be said about both the ACH and the FS9's. None of them were in great need of quirks, and both got really strong ones. If memory serves me right, the FS9s were classified as Tier 2ish mechs before quirks + that they have JJs that at the time meant -1 level of quirkening, but somehow ended up with Tier 3ish to 4ish quirks on the FS9-A and -S. Sometimes MWO balance works in mysterious ways.

[FupDup]

Duke Nedo, on 03 September 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

To be fair, the same could be said about both the ACH and the FS9's. None of them were in great need of quirks, and both got really strong ones. If memory serves me right, the FS9s were classified as Tier 2ish mechs before quirks + that they have JJs that at the time meant -1 level of quirkening, but somehow ended up with Tier 3ish to 4ish quirks on the FS9-A and -S. Sometimes MWO balance works in mysterious ways.

I think that the Firestarter quirks thing was a result of the light choices of the "comp" players...Basically, before the Clans and quirks, the Ember was the preferred Firestarter, used for short ranged brawling/finishing because MGs used to be sorta decent. Jenners were used for mid-range poking instead of the C-Bill Firestarters because of higher hardpoints and a much better torso pitch.

The C-Bill FS9's actually weren't very common at all for quite a while...but then the Clans came and they could laser vomit the crap out of the Jenner's ginormous CT, so Jennies fell out of favor. Then MGs got nerfed and sustained DPS (MGs) didn't matter as much as a sheer mid-range alpha (aka MLas builds), which indirectly nerfed the Ember. Quirks on the C-Bill Firestarters just sealed the deal.

I don't really mind the quirks, though, because in the end it's still a light mech that has to contend against heavies, assaults, and mediums.

Edited by FupDup, 03 September 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[Aresye]

Appogee, on 02 September 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

Do you believe there is nothing wrong (and I mean 'wrong' in the broadest sense, including 'inappropriate') with the Cheetah's hitboxes?

I have experienced - many times - hitting one which is shut down, full square in the CT, and it takes little or no damage. I've experienced that both playing in them, and fighting against them.

I've never seen it as frequently on any other Mech. It leads me to believe there may be genuine technical hitbox issues with the Cheetah, as we have seen before on some other Mechs in the past (eg gaps where shots could sail through, that required hitbox correction).

Genuine question. If it's not hitboxes, what is it that so often leads the Cheetah to not take damage to the CT even when it's standing still?

You experienced bad hit reg.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 03 September 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[Appogee]

Mystere, on 03 September 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Again, provide evidence or stop spreading such nonsense. Mcgral18 has a video showing the ACH's tight hit boxes. Even Russ says so. Do you have one that says otherwise?

I provided details of why I had reached that conclusion, earlier in the thread. I also reminded people of the earlier situations which occurred in MWO where hitbox models had been proven to be broken, with shots sailing through them.

I don't have a video. Nor do I feel compelled to put in the effort necessary to convince anyone of things I already observed and personally experienced. It's not worth my time, and it won't make a shred of difference to what happens next.

Carry on.

Edited by Appogee, 03 September 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[Appogee]

Shredhead, on 03 September 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

HSR in conjunction with high server load.

..which mysteriously happens to me much more often when I'm in a Cheetah, or fighting against one, compared to other Mechs...

[JohnnyWayne]

Well what to say. It will be the second coming of the TBR nerfs - noone will play them anymore until its kinda reverted.

[Appogee]

JohnnyWayne, on 03 September 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Well what to say. It will be the second coming of the TBR nerfs - noone will play them anymore until its kinda reverted.

Nah. If, as some people are asserting, the hitboxes aren't broken, and it's just the removal of structure quirks, then it'll still be a very powerful Light Mech like the SPL FS9-A.

[The Flying Gecko]

Step 1: Introduce new mech(s)
Step 2: Make mech(s) ridiculously OP
Step 3: SELL SELL SELL!!
Step 4: Nerf before c-bill release
Step 5: Laugh all the way to the bank

[Sarlic]

The Flying Gecko, on 03 September 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Step 1: Introduce new mech(s)
Step 2: Make mech(s) ridiculously OP
Step 3: SELL SELL SELL!!
Step 4: Nerf before c-bill release
Step 5: Laugh all the way to the bank

I laughed, shouldn't have but i laughed.

Edited by Sarlic, 03 September 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[Kira Onime]

Appogee, on 02 September 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

Cheetah's hitboxes are broken. That's the main issue.

Got anything to back that up 'cause so far, nobody that has said so was able to provide anything to back it up.

On the other hand, people that claim the hitboxes are just fine have something to show for it.

[-VooDoo-]

Tasty mech tears.

[nehebkau]

Appogee, on 03 September 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

I provided details of why I had reached that conclusion, earlier in the thread. I also reminded people of the earlier situations which occurred in MWO where hitbox models had been proven to be broken, with shots sailing through them.

I don't have a video. Nor do I feel compelled to put in the effort necessary to convince anyone of things I already observed and personally experienced. It's not worth my time, and it won't make a shred of difference to what happens next.

Carry on.

AND THAT IS WHATS WRONG IN THE WORLD TODAY!

Confronted with evidence from multiple sources -- much conducted in an impartial methodical manner -- the person is unwilling to change their belief because of ... ? "I don't care what your science says Jesus road a dinosaur across the red sea and that is fact because I know its true!"

The poster should have a demotivator poster made after them.

The Flying Gecko, on 03 September 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Step 1: Introduce new mech(s)
Step 2: Make mech(s) ridiculously OP
Step 3: SELL SELL SELL!!
Step 4: Nerf before c-bill release
Step 5: Laugh all the way to the bank

Nice conspiracy theory. Think I'll lump you with Appogee.

Edited by nehebkau, 03 September 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Shredhead]

Appogee, on 03 September 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

..which mysteriously happens to me much more often when I'm in a Cheetah, or fighting against one, compared to other Mechs...

Strange, because these things happen to me with all kinds of mechs, and not more prominently on Cheetahs. Although it does tend to happen more on very fast mechs overall, and pretty much equally, as it seems that HSR has some minor problems coping with high speed mechs quickly changing directions and twitching. It's still easiest to hit their legs (it seems there's just less hitboxes to cause problems) and to hit them when they throttle down, or run in a straight line towards or away from you. But these things are still quite rare, and happen mainly at peak times for either time zones.
Maybe there's a bit too much confirmation bias on your side there.
In the end, just

[Lightfoot]

It won't make any difference. It will still be as hard to hit as the Spider and Raven and the whiners will still be whining. Raven is a 35 ton though with much heavier weapons so there is no balancing here.