25 replies to this topic

[Surn]

I have a simple to implement suggestion for Community Warfare that will make a massive difference in balance between PUG groups and premade teams.


Add 1 minute more to the drop deck selection timer.

This will allow pug groups to set good drop decks and make an immediate improvement in most CW matches.

Many teams only launch attacks because they then only face PUGs and farm them shamelessly. As a dropleader of pug teams in Beta 1, our unit took 3 planets with only about 3 active CW players by using pugs on defense at key moments.

In doing so, I learned that 4 good players on a pug team makes a massive difference in competitiveness of the match. However, if even one of these players does not get his drop deck set in time.. the match is negatively impacted severely.

The attacking team normally has up to 10 minutes to organize their drop decks. So, a pug team with less than a minute to set the drop deck is at extreme disadvantage.

Do the right thing.. add another minute to the timer. It will add joy to the game.

Edited by MechregSurn, 06 September 2015 - 01:09 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

1 minute more waiting time.
But i like the suggestion.
there's a lot more i'd like to see, tho.
Like an audio notifcation if a team is build (because i don't like to watch the lobby for 30 minutes just to be in time to change my deck)
or the ability to see the loadout of other mechs (miceover hover)

[Elizander]

Well some people wait a long time to get a CW match. Increasing the time to set drop decks up to 3-5 minutes won't hurt anyone.

Edited by Elizander, 06 September 2015 - 01:26 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

No artificially inflated wait times, please. It's bad enough as is.

How many of those good pugs aren't able to select the right drop deck for the map they're dropping on in the 2-10 minutes it takes for them to drop after seeing the wedge?

I'd imagine there aren't that many Mech combinations to sort through. If there are, that's a bit of a problem in itself.

Though I'd love to have a number of saved dropships. That would be nice.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 06 September 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[Xevius Von Morrigan]

In CW should be forbidden the use of trial 'mechs. In this way only 'no rookie' mechwarriors will join the battle.
In my opinion no additional time is enought if a mechwarrior can deal <100 dmgs with 4 'mechs...

[Agent1190]

An additional 30-60 seconds once a match is made is not going to make any difference. N matter how long I wait for a match to start, once the match start count down happens, I am no longer thinking of how long I waited. I am getting my deck ready for the map and the game mode. The drop deck selection is wonky at best - I can't even count how many times I have switched out the wrong mech, or had a bug where I couldn't swap in a chasis, had to cancel changes and start over.

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 06 September 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

In CW should be forbidden the use of trial 'mechs. In this way only 'no rookie' mechwarriors will join the battle.
In my opinion no additional time is enought if a mechwarrior can deal <100 dmgs with 4 'mechs...

Don't be elitist. I dropped in Inner Sphere trials on my alt account and found some of them very adequate. Remember, the IS trials are community built. If you don't think they are good buils, take it up with the community, not in CW posts.

Edited by Agent1190, 06 September 2015 - 06:06 AM.

[Xevius Von Morrigan]

I don't want to be elitist but CW is a bit more complex than a simple 12 vs 12 match. There must be a way to let only no-rookie play thwe CW.
I am not saying that only veteran or player with high kill/death ratio can partecipate but, I repeat, a new mechwarrior with no experience shouldn't be able to enter CW.
Restricting the access to no trial mech can be a solution.

[Yokaiko]

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 06 September 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

Restricting the access to no trial mech can be a solution.

I'd agree with that for the most part, there should be a base barrier for entry.

But what is worse, trials or the guy that brings 3 FS9s, two with stock engines and a Wolverine or something because those are the non-trail mechs, that he has that aren't trials and meet the minimum weight.

[patataman]

I like it, but for a different reason: more time to prepare a strategy( as long as the map is known). Wouldn't be better to have several 'saved' dropdecks, and choose one of them in the pre-drop screen?

[Surn]

patataman, on 06 September 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

I like it, but for a different reason: more time to prepare a strategy( as long as the map is known). Wouldn't be better to have several 'saved' dropdecks, and choose one of them in the pre-drop screen?

I think this is going to be a paid option in the future. Like mechbays, drop decks will be something you buy.

As a matter of fact, that is probably why the time is so limited right now. I personally only need about 15 more seconds to switch my drop decks without feeling so rushed. Not having time to switch my drop deck correctly happens about 10% of the time, and is always a concern.

Do you feel rushed when you join a defense?



It is such a concern, I have learned all sorts of tricks to figure out which map is next before the timer starts. I imagine many players have resorted to the same tactic. It is completely unnecessary.

One tactic is that I have a piece of paper on my monitor that lists the maps in the order they are played on the sectors, to eliminate the few seconds it takes to remember the order they appear on the map.

Boreal, Sulfurous, Hellebore, Grim portico (cybertron), Emerald, Victric....rinse repeat.

Another tactic is guessing which map is next based on sectors currently owned. Sectors 1,7, & 13 are boreal...so that is my default drop deck. There are only 2 instances of the other maps per planet.

I have learned from many CW matches that I do best on Boreal and part of the reason is that my deck is ready and I don't launch with mechs that are useless on that map.

Edited by MechregSurn, 06 September 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[Surn]

Vlad Ward, on 06 September 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

No artificially inflated wait times, please. It's bad enough as is.

How many of those good pugs aren't able to select the right drop deck for the map they're dropping on in the 2-10 minutes it takes for them to drop after seeing the wedge?

I advise you to go drop on a pug planetary defense a few times. Take note whether you as an experienced player are currently able to align your drop deck to the mission in the less than 1 minute once it is displayed.

It may be less of a concern for clan players due to the power of the mechs and their more global roles and abilities, but I recall it is still a concern when playing on that side of CW.

Now consider a newer CW player, who may have no one to guide him and relies 100% on the displayed mission and location. They are more likely to take energy boats on Vitric forge, short range mechs on Boreal and Hellebore, etc... thus they perform terribly, their team is more likely to be completely stomped and everyone involved is more likely to stop playing CW.

Giving them a small amount of additional time isn't a "cure all", but it will help.

Edited by MechregSurn, 06 September 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[Yokaiko]

MechregSurn, on 06 September 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

I advise you to go drop on a pug planetary defense a few times. Take note whether you as an experienced player are currently able to align your drop deck to the mission in the less than 1 minute once it is displayed.

With clan mechs, yes, my decks don't change that much its swapping loadouts for the session at hand.
.....with IS, nope, every change involves finding three different mechs because of all of the weight changes.

I have about three complete drop decks of both IS and clan mechs that I can call out depending on what faction I'm in, one of the advantages of being a CB era mech *****.

[unwary]

MechregSurn, on 06 September 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

.....

This will allow pug groups to set good drop decks and make an immediate improvement in most CW matches.
...

That's not gonna matter if they save the king crab as the final mech, only to die to a swarm of lights. The tempo of a cw match is usually decided in the first two waves.

[Vlad Ward]

MechregSurn, on 06 September 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

I advise you to go drop on a pug planetary defense a few times. Take note whether you as an experienced player are currently able to align your drop deck to the mission in the less than 1 minute once it is displayed.

It may be less of a concern for clan players due to the power of the mechs and their more global roles and abilities, but I recall it is still a concern when playing on that side of CW.

Now consider a newer CW player, who may have no one to guide him and relies 100% on the displayed mission and location. They are more likely to take energy boats on Vitric forge, short range mechs on Boreal and Hellebore, etc... thus they perform terribly, their team is more likely to be completely stomped and everyone involved is more likely to stop playing CW.

Giving them a small amount of additional time isn't a "cure all", but it will help.

You're asking about two different cases, so I'll answer them separately.

1) Do I, as an experienced player, have all that much trouble switching decks for the mission?

Answer: No. Map conditions are rather trivial in determining actual dropship composition when you're working with quirked/mastered Mechs. Will I occasionally trade my second timby for a warhawk for giggles on Boreal? Sure, but that's not an effective choice - just a funsies one.

There is no rewarding objective mode in MWO. The best thing anyone can do is kill the other robots before they kill you, and the Mechs you take are the ones that are best at doing this.

This is even more compounded in IS Mechs. Why would I ever do anything but take as many Thunderbolts as I can cram into a deck? Jagermechs? Been there, done that, they don't have nearly enough ammo to keep up with respawns. I end up ejecting out of perfectly good Jagers every time I take them. Dragons? Not exactly heat neutral, so they're hardly a "safer choice" for maps like Sulphur. I'll take them if I'm feeling confident in my arm tracking skills and really want to farm c-bills with dakka.

What if my team wants to do 2 Light rushes followed by 2 LRM waves? Screw that. We've already lost.

2) What about a newer CW player?

This could mean one of two things. Does the player have a lot of Mechs and play experience, but just doesn't know how to read the planet map to figure out what Map they're on?

In this case, learn to read the map. It takes a couple seconds. You can literally count on your fingers.

Or, on the other hand, you may be talking about a new player. A new player isn't going to have a sufficiently diverse mechlab for it to matter how long they have to construct a deck. If they have all of 4-5 usable Mechs, they're going to take whatever 4 they like the most. They don't have an option, really.

[patataman]

MechregSurn, on 06 September 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

I think this is going to be a paid option in the future. Like mechbays, drop decks will be something you buy.

As a matter of fact, that is probably why the time is so limited right now. I personally only need about 15 more seconds to switch my drop decks without feeling so rushed. Not having time to switch my drop deck correctly happens about 10% of the time, and is always a concern.

Do you feel rushed when you join a defense?

To tell you the truth, my drop deck almost didn't change since the very beginning of beta1 until yesterday ( i wanted to put a urbie in it and ended replacing 3 of the mechs lol ) You can do well as long as you know the strenghts and weaknesses of your mechs.

Drop decks working as mechbays looks interesting, i would buy some for sure, the way it is now i don't bother to change mechs in the last moment and prefer to drop in my old workhorses. Any serious change in my drop deck requires some planing time and some more hangar time.


Rushed? Nope, never. Well... maybe when half the team is salvage and 12 clammers are coming to finish the job.

[Moldur]

Yes, if it helps PUGs organize, then it will help balance. That is the prime difference between premades and PUGs. Honestly, group players don't need to be really good or anything to stomp pugs. The deciding factor in a stomp is often solely because one team has a strategy that everyone is willing to follow, while the pugs try to do their own thing half-assedly, making the whole team fail.

[Surn]

Are there any more opinions?

[Ssamout]

The amount of communication in an usual pug team, makes one more minute of waiting a painful silence.. If the wait was 10+ minutes the odds are that half of the team is afk few minutes in the beginning of match anyway.

That said I just run a dropdeck that works anywhere, against anything, while solo dropping in cw..

[Necromantion]

How about they fix the crap game interface and allow us to swap mechs while waiting to load in and the like?

[Colonel ONeill]

you have all day time to set a dropdeck before you enter the queue! Pugs still bring bad mechs with bad loadouts...