You know what I hate about a four player cap ? When that friend you haven't seen in a year shows up 5 minutes after the group is full. FYI Me personally When a 5th bud shows up online there is a guilt that I am in a group and they are not. Just my 200 Cents worth.
53
State Of Match Making - Feedback/comments
Started by Paul Inouye, Sep 03 2015 01:43 PM
1142 replies to this topic
#1102
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- Philanthropist
- 30 posts
Member
Posted 22 December 2021 - 06:47 AM
System Belmont the Mech Slayer, on 12 December 2021 - 03:00 PM, said:
Time to bring 8 man groups back, quit making excuses
How about no. 4 is plenty, 8 will be much worse. If you want every last solo player to leave the game bring large groups into quick play.
Edited by PlzJustDie, 22 December 2021 - 06:51 AM.
#1103
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- Wild Dog
- 120 posts
Member
Posted 18 January 2022 - 08:26 AM
I have a suggestion of how the match maker might be fixed.
First match score needs to reflect genuine pilot performance (this maybe the most difficult bit but can be self-optimised using the in-game stats!). Match score should not be inflated if the team wins and should not be depressed if the team loses. More match score should be awarded for capturing flags, being in the circle, spotting etc, and should not just prioritise inflicting damage. This will give the lighter mechs a chance. Match score should be weighted by tonnage. The weightings can be derived periodically from live statistical data in the game.
Matchmaking is simply then a problem to equalise (as best as possible) each team's:
1. Total average match score.
2. Total tonnage.
There should be a range of acceptable tolerances for each. E.g. Total average match score +/- 200. Total tonnage +/- 50. Again these tolerances can be self-optimised. Match scores can even be weighted by how evenly the teams were matched.
The tier system should be abolished and replaced with ranks for average match score instead. The ranks are simply badges of honour, ideally coming with decals, bolt-ons, should be publicly visible in the loading screen and on player profiles, and even come with one-time rewards like MC, SP, and C-Bills.
First match score needs to reflect genuine pilot performance (this maybe the most difficult bit but can be self-optimised using the in-game stats!). Match score should not be inflated if the team wins and should not be depressed if the team loses. More match score should be awarded for capturing flags, being in the circle, spotting etc, and should not just prioritise inflicting damage. This will give the lighter mechs a chance. Match score should be weighted by tonnage. The weightings can be derived periodically from live statistical data in the game.
Matchmaking is simply then a problem to equalise (as best as possible) each team's:
1. Total average match score.
2. Total tonnage.
There should be a range of acceptable tolerances for each. E.g. Total average match score +/- 200. Total tonnage +/- 50. Again these tolerances can be self-optimised. Match scores can even be weighted by how evenly the teams were matched.
The tier system should be abolished and replaced with ranks for average match score instead. The ranks are simply badges of honour, ideally coming with decals, bolt-ons, should be publicly visible in the loading screen and on player profiles, and even come with one-time rewards like MC, SP, and C-Bills.
#1104
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- The Pest
- 31 posts
Member
- LocationWashington
Posted 26 January 2022 - 11:30 AM
Titan Prometheus, on 18 January 2022 - 08:26 AM, said:
I have a suggestion of how the match maker might be fixed.
First match score needs to reflect genuine pilot performance (this maybe the most difficult bit but can be self-optimised using the in-game stats!). Match score should not be inflated if the team wins and should not be depressed if the team loses. More match score should be awarded for capturing flags, being in the circle, spotting etc, and should not just prioritise inflicting damage. This will give the lighter mechs a chance. Match score should be weighted by tonnage. The weightings can be derived periodically from live statistical data in the game.
Matchmaking is simply then a problem to equalise (as best as possible) each team's:
1. Total average match score.
2. Total tonnage.
There should be a range of acceptable tolerances for each. E.g. Total average match score +/- 200. Total tonnage +/- 50. Again these tolerances can be self-optimised. Match scores can even be weighted by how evenly the teams were matched.
The tier system should be abolished and replaced with ranks for average match score instead. The ranks are simply badges of honour, ideally coming with decals, bolt-ons, should be publicly visible in the loading screen and on player profiles, and even come with one-time rewards like MC, SP, and C-Bills.
First match score needs to reflect genuine pilot performance (this maybe the most difficult bit but can be self-optimised using the in-game stats!). Match score should not be inflated if the team wins and should not be depressed if the team loses. More match score should be awarded for capturing flags, being in the circle, spotting etc, and should not just prioritise inflicting damage. This will give the lighter mechs a chance. Match score should be weighted by tonnage. The weightings can be derived periodically from live statistical data in the game.
Matchmaking is simply then a problem to equalise (as best as possible) each team's:
1. Total average match score.
2. Total tonnage.
There should be a range of acceptable tolerances for each. E.g. Total average match score +/- 200. Total tonnage +/- 50. Again these tolerances can be self-optimised. Match scores can even be weighted by how evenly the teams were matched.
The tier system should be abolished and replaced with ranks for average match score instead. The ranks are simply badges of honour, ideally coming with decals, bolt-ons, should be publicly visible in the loading screen and on player profiles, and even come with one-time rewards like MC, SP, and C-Bills.
I really like this concept. The need to fix match maker is so critical and a way to control weight of teams. I have been seeing so many matches now that have come either really heavy versus really light or vise versa. The ability to limit the amount of mechs by Class is becoming more apparent. I would love to see game play that has 1 of each weight class per lance and also Group drops moving away from tonnage.
#1105
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- The Tyrant
- 200 posts
Member
- Locationpacific north west
Posted 22 May 2022 - 06:18 AM
until you fix the scourge of lights that can cork any mech in 3-4 seconds the game will continue to actually suck. till this day I can't, for the life of me, figure out what made you think this would ever make sense. a 25-ton mech blowing out the best 100 tonners with them even being lucky enough to return fire?? yeah that makes total sense. FFS!!
Don't even get me started on PGI disco's only to return to a blown up mech literally every time. then give the player a penalty when you can't reconnect? SMDH.
Don't even get me started on PGI disco's only to return to a blown up mech literally every time. then give the player a penalty when you can't reconnect? SMDH.
#1106
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- Knight Errant
- 1 posts
Rookie
Posted 23 May 2022 - 11:04 PM
I'm a Tier 3 solo player. With quick play the biggest issue for me is constantly getting thrown into tier 1-2 matches and getting mulched. Since I've moved from tier 4 to tier 3 I lose 9/10 matches, the game isn't fun for us in the "average Player" category. That and the fact that Clan Lights dominate every match in Quickplay.
Edited by RagingRaven, 23 May 2022 - 11:09 PM.
#1107
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- The 1 Percent
- 11 posts
Member
- LocationLower Rhine Area
Posted 28 May 2022 - 11:04 AM
RagingRaven, on 23 May 2022 - 11:04 PM, said:
I'm a Tier 3 solo player.
Actually. I am a Tier 4 player. And in the last two days I played AGAINST pretty much every streamer I know. - And I know they are all Tier 1. - That would be fine up to a certain degree, if the distribution of top players would be somewhat even between both teams. But it is not: My teams basically lost every game and in almost every time we were crushed by 12:5 or worse.
Apart from that, what is quite obvious for me, is that more and more groups drop in quick play with the intention to mob up the opponent with organized team play. Packs of piranhas or arctic wolves, that work as a team are pretty devastating in quick play. Same with lurmers, that bring their own narc raven or laser boat teams, that only trade and call targets so that when you peek just once, you see laser beams from four directions pointing at you killing you almost instantly.
If there is one thing that will make me quit this game fairly soon, it is the feeling of just being the cannon fodder for top player target practice or kill teams.
#1108
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- Kavellrist
- 29 posts
Member
Posted 28 May 2022 - 09:41 PM
the orc, on 28 May 2022 - 11:04 AM, said:
Actually. I am a Tier 4 player. And in the last two days I played AGAINST pretty much every streamer I know. - And I know they are all Tier 1. - That would be fine up to a certain degree, if the distribution of top players would be somewhat even between both teams. But it is not: My teams basically lost every game and in almost every time we were crushed by 12:5 or worse.
Apart from that, what is quite obvious for me, is that more and more groups drop in quick play with the intention to mob up the opponent with organized team play. Packs of piranhas or arctic wolves, that work as a team are pretty devastating in quick play. Same with lurmers, that bring their own narc raven or laser boat teams, that only trade and call targets so that when you peek just once, you see laser beams from four directions pointing at you killing you almost instantly.
If there is one thing that will make me quit this game fairly soon, it is the feeling of just being the cannon fodder for top player target practice or kill teams.
Apart from that, what is quite obvious for me, is that more and more groups drop in quick play with the intention to mob up the opponent with organized team play. Packs of piranhas or arctic wolves, that work as a team are pretty devastating in quick play. Same with lurmers, that bring their own narc raven or laser boat teams, that only trade and call targets so that when you peek just once, you see laser beams from four directions pointing at you killing you almost instantly.
If there is one thing that will make me quit this game fairly soon, it is the feeling of just being the cannon fodder for top player target practice or kill teams.
"The Definitive MechWarrior Online experience."
But seriously, I've been away from the game for over a year and a half and what you describe is what it was like when I last played. Other than the streamers.
The only thing I have really noticed is that light 'mechs seem to have considerably more armor now.
3 Large Pulse lasers apparently don't mean much to a Locust standing still anymore...
#1109
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- Bad Company
- 2 posts
Rookie
Posted 31 May 2022 - 06:47 AM
Rogard, on 26 January 2022 - 11:30 AM, said:
I really like this concept. The need to fix match maker is so critical and a way to control weight of teams. I have been seeing so many matches now that have come either really heavy versus really light or vise versa. The ability to limit the amount of mechs by Class is becoming more apparent. I would love to see game play that has 1 of each weight class per lance and also Group drops moving away from tonnage.
Same here - just came from 3 matches back to back with up to 8 to 4 Assault (dis-)advantage. Both teams murder balled, no significant tactical errors but there is no winning such matchups.
I HAVE seen the lighter team win - but those were mostly matches with capturing and the other team being drawn apart and eaten by our beloved 8+ machine-gun lights/meds.
I'd also vote for 2-man teams or at most 3 mans in QP-queue. 4 Man as 1/3 of a group with up to 4 heavy mechs is too dominant still.
#1110
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- Bad Company
- 57 posts
Member
Posted 11 June 2022 - 12:15 PM
Up to a few weeks ago, we really only had 2 fundamental tiers - 4 and 5 or 3 and above. So you either saw a only a few tier 1s in your match or as many as MM can stuff in a match. Tier 3 matches allowed 1-5, or 2 tiers up and 2 tiers down. Really, my experience was once in tier 3, it was open season seal clubbing and PC was the seal. It was tough to move up a tier to 3 but super easy to fall back to tier 4.
Now, however, you are guaranteed tier 1 combatants regardless of your tier. Moving up a tier is out of the question for anyone on tier 4 or 5. In losing matches you are generally getting creamed in stomp matches, losing PSR. In winning matches you generally are outscored or cannon fodder to the tier 1s on your team that your PSR goes down. This makes it very hard to move up a tier. But since MM doesn't work anyway, what's the point?
To me, the only fix to address MM issues including group drops, weight imbalances, the wide variation in experience and not discouraging new (and old) players is for player-to-player equalization quirks. The player pool is small and the variations among the pool are huge. Handicapping is the only sure answer. MM would not need to worry about tier balancing as much. Just mech weights and maybe firepower to simplify the algorithm.
Now, however, you are guaranteed tier 1 combatants regardless of your tier. Moving up a tier is out of the question for anyone on tier 4 or 5. In losing matches you are generally getting creamed in stomp matches, losing PSR. In winning matches you generally are outscored or cannon fodder to the tier 1s on your team that your PSR goes down. This makes it very hard to move up a tier. But since MM doesn't work anyway, what's the point?
To me, the only fix to address MM issues including group drops, weight imbalances, the wide variation in experience and not discouraging new (and old) players is for player-to-player equalization quirks. The player pool is small and the variations among the pool are huge. Handicapping is the only sure answer. MM would not need to worry about tier balancing as much. Just mech weights and maybe firepower to simplify the algorithm.
Edited by PCHunter, 11 June 2022 - 12:17 PM.
#1111
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- Philanthropist
- 19 posts
Member
Posted 15 June 2022 - 09:34 AM
Disclaimer: Am noob, take feedback with some salt.
To add to the above, if the QP queue is including players from multiple tiers, then your up/down TR movements should be calculated based on your performance relative to the other players of your rank, not relative the entire lobby. If you're a T5 player and had the highest (or among the highest) match-score of all T5s in the game, even though you've landed squarely in the bot 12 match-scores, wouldn't it make sense for your rank to climb? After all, you out-performed (mostly) everyone else in your rank. From what I'm reading and I can be very wrong here, you'll lose TR with the system as is.
Likewise, if you're a T1 and face-rolled all over players below you in rank, should your rank really climb? Have you displayed that you should be higher in T1 for outperforming players T2 and below?
Just some food for thought. A system that mixes players from multiple tiers and doesn't discriminate between tiers when recalculating MMR generates a self-feeding loop where the high get higher and the low fall lower.
To add to the above, if the QP queue is including players from multiple tiers, then your up/down TR movements should be calculated based on your performance relative to the other players of your rank, not relative the entire lobby. If you're a T5 player and had the highest (or among the highest) match-score of all T5s in the game, even though you've landed squarely in the bot 12 match-scores, wouldn't it make sense for your rank to climb? After all, you out-performed (mostly) everyone else in your rank. From what I'm reading and I can be very wrong here, you'll lose TR with the system as is.
Likewise, if you're a T1 and face-rolled all over players below you in rank, should your rank really climb? Have you displayed that you should be higher in T1 for outperforming players T2 and below?
Just some food for thought. A system that mixes players from multiple tiers and doesn't discriminate between tiers when recalculating MMR generates a self-feeding loop where the high get higher and the low fall lower.
#1112
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- Bad Company
- 57 posts
Member
Posted 15 June 2022 - 04:34 PM
TruMantas, on 15 June 2022 - 09:34 AM, said:
A system that mixes players from multiple tiers and doesn't discriminate between tiers when recalculating MMR generates a self-feeding loop where the high get higher and the low fall lower.
#1113
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- Philanthropist
- 19 posts
Member
Posted 16 June 2022 - 09:33 AM
Now onto some objective feedback:
I just played a game when my team had zero assault mechs, vs a team that had a full lance's worth. It shouldn't happen. (Match Id: 205163653188301)
Note: Please excuse the potato quality photo, my screenshot button had rebelled in outrage. Regardless, full roster details should be legible.
https://imgur.com/a/j4XmBot
I just played a game when my team had zero assault mechs, vs a team that had a full lance's worth. It shouldn't happen. (Match Id: 205163653188301)
Note: Please excuse the potato quality photo, my screenshot button had rebelled in outrage. Regardless, full roster details should be legible.
https://imgur.com/a/j4XmBot
#1114
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- Bad Company
- 57 posts
Member
Posted 25 June 2022 - 11:59 PM
I love that there have been ZERO comments from anyone at PGI about this matter. So instead, they release a pay to win mech that is clearly OP for anything else in its class - the Crusader - modify Tourmaline so it is a snipers/lermers paradise and introduce the Vitric map which is the worst team-oriented map in the mix. It is a free-for-all brawler map that resembles an arena more than anything else. No real strategy works and there are almost no places that can't be easily flanked and sniped from multiple directions.
I am just marking time in the game until my frustration level reaches the point where I will just move on. PGI you need to take this stuff seriously and start to introduce modifications that actually address player's concerns rather than your fanatics' preferences.
I am just marking time in the game until my frustration level reaches the point where I will just move on. PGI you need to take this stuff seriously and start to introduce modifications that actually address player's concerns rather than your fanatics' preferences.
#1115
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- The Hitman
- 592 posts
Member
Posted 26 June 2022 - 04:41 AM
Something seriously needs to be done about how the matchmaking is putting brand new players in with veteran players... especially if you are going to put people on 5 min wait to join a match after a newbie repeatedly walks in front and into your fire eventually getting themselves killed.
I'm being kind assuming brand new.... but this guy was in a unit (not that you can't be invited into a unit before you even drop for your first match). If this person wasn't new, and wasn't simply doing their best to assist the enemy, then they were the very worst player MWO has ever seen. Constantly running in front of teammates as they are firing, blocking teammates from being able to move, enabling the enemy to be able to fire while keeping you stuck... basically go down the list of everything you shouldn't do... this person repeatedly did it.
Then after they get themselves killed walking in front of my alpha... for the uncounted number of times (6 x MRM 10 ... only firing in alpha gotta love HSL) and even after I reported them for aiding the enemy... I suffer a penalty after the match... the match that I had to suffer the player....
PLEASE FIX MATCHMAKER... just fix what ever you broke.... is that really asking too much?
New mechs are always OP... then they get nerfed down to useless for awhile... welcome to MWO
EDIT:: Oh I should add that perhaps I shouldn't have taken the break... as after reading this over again I see my Tier has dropped from T1 all the way down... was there another Tier reset while I was gone or simply an absence penalty as well.... sigh game has too many penalties these days)
EDIT,EDIT:: I also just noticed this is a 7 year old thread..... sigh.
I'm being kind assuming brand new.... but this guy was in a unit (not that you can't be invited into a unit before you even drop for your first match). If this person wasn't new, and wasn't simply doing their best to assist the enemy, then they were the very worst player MWO has ever seen. Constantly running in front of teammates as they are firing, blocking teammates from being able to move, enabling the enemy to be able to fire while keeping you stuck... basically go down the list of everything you shouldn't do... this person repeatedly did it.
Then after they get themselves killed walking in front of my alpha... for the uncounted number of times (6 x MRM 10 ... only firing in alpha gotta love HSL) and even after I reported them for aiding the enemy... I suffer a penalty after the match... the match that I had to suffer the player....
PLEASE FIX MATCHMAKER... just fix what ever you broke.... is that really asking too much?
PCHunter, on 25 June 2022 - 11:59 PM, said:
I love that there have been ZERO comments from anyone at PGI about this matter. So instead, they release a pay to win mech that is clearly OP for anything else in its class - the Crusader - modify Tourmaline so it is a snipers/lermers paradise and introduce the Vitric map which is the worst team-oriented map in the mix. It is a free-for-all brawler map that resembles an arena more than anything else. No real strategy works and there are almost no places that can't be easily flanked and sniped from multiple directions.
I am just marking time in the game until my frustration level reaches the point where I will just move on. PGI you need to take this stuff seriously and start to introduce modifications that actually address player's concerns rather than your fanatics' preferences.
I am just marking time in the game until my frustration level reaches the point where I will just move on. PGI you need to take this stuff seriously and start to introduce modifications that actually address player's concerns rather than your fanatics' preferences.
New mechs are always OP... then they get nerfed down to useless for awhile... welcome to MWO
EDIT:: Oh I should add that perhaps I shouldn't have taken the break... as after reading this over again I see my Tier has dropped from T1 all the way down... was there another Tier reset while I was gone or simply an absence penalty as well.... sigh game has too many penalties these days)
EDIT,EDIT:: I also just noticed this is a 7 year old thread..... sigh.
Edited by Bellum Dominum, 26 June 2022 - 04:53 AM.
#1116
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- Bad Company
- 57 posts
Member
Posted 26 June 2022 - 12:12 PM
Don't get me going on the PSR and Tiers. Since the new maps, obvious abandonment of matchmaker to create fair match ups, and Crusader drops, my PSR has tanked. I am doing nothing differently. Moreover, no matter what outcome I have in a match, my PSR seldom goes up, if at all. Highest kills, highest damage, highest match score? Nada. Low match score? Drops. Seriously?
Edited by PCHunter, 26 June 2022 - 12:13 PM.
#1117
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- Bad Company
- 57 posts
Member
Posted 28 June 2022 - 11:22 AM
Another frustrating night. Multiple matches, 1 win, mostly stomps by Tier 1 groups.
I'm out. Game uninstalled. I have better things to do with my free time.
The only winning move is not to play. "Wargames" the movie on a no-win situation.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "Narcotics Anonymous" on addiction.
My best wishes to the MWO Community. It's been an 8-year ride but it's time to read the tea leaves and move on.
Cheers,
PC
I'm out. Game uninstalled. I have better things to do with my free time.
The only winning move is not to play. "Wargames" the movie on a no-win situation.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "Narcotics Anonymous" on addiction.
My best wishes to the MWO Community. It's been an 8-year ride but it's time to read the tea leaves and move on.
Cheers,
PC
#1118
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- Star Captain
- 402 posts
Member
Posted 28 June 2022 - 03:20 PM
WOW what did you guys change P G I, in match making, you are chasing of folks, hoping the event mode starts up, ---- hint 4 man MED mechs only, some teams on a night some solo, like BOWLING night.
HMM how about KILLS are worth 3 times more, assist get a 50% bonus ect ect, and maybe 1 night clan vs the IS scum of the earth FREEBORN ---- LOL
SAWK CLANNER
HMM how about KILLS are worth 3 times more, assist get a 50% bonus ect ect, and maybe 1 night clan vs the IS scum of the earth FREEBORN ---- LOL
SAWK CLANNER
#1119
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- Bad Company
- 57 posts
Member
Posted 07 July 2022 - 11:37 AM
Please check out the Devlog commentary on MM and the upcoming Jul 19 patch. Not sure what they have done. I am skeptical. Did they restore MM to pre-event queue when they borked it, or make updates and upgrades to it?
#1120
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- Legendary Founder
- 440 posts
Member
Posted 18 July 2022 - 07:06 PM
I'll be honest... tonight is the first time I think I've been in tier 4, even for a couple matches, since I stopped having a clan to drop with.
And I promptly dropped back down to tier 5 not through my own fault, but because I got forced into a group loaded with inexperienced players for a few matches.
It was bad enough in 8v8, but I've just resigned myself to never leaving tier 5 as a solo / casual player these days. The tier system simply doesn't allow for anything else. Real life doesn't allow for enough time for the existing guilds/clans to have any interest, and for the rest of the time, my own skill level doesn't matter in matches when 6+ newer-level players get killed in the first 2 minutes of any match.
And I promptly dropped back down to tier 5 not through my own fault, but because I got forced into a group loaded with inexperienced players for a few matches.
It was bad enough in 8v8, but I've just resigned myself to never leaving tier 5 as a solo / casual player these days. The tier system simply doesn't allow for anything else. Real life doesn't allow for enough time for the existing guilds/clans to have any interest, and for the rest of the time, my own skill level doesn't matter in matches when 6+ newer-level players get killed in the first 2 minutes of any match.
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