1142 replies to this topic

[jay35]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just a thought that is just a MAYBE atm.

What if we kept all group sizes, allowed a few solo players.

Then we make game mode random in group queue. If we could do that and limit group queue creation at least some what more, if not 1/1/1/1 than perhaps 2's as some have suggested.

Yes perhaps removing all odd sized groups would help - although the group size of 3 would be tough to get rid of.

I'm okay with removing game mode choice in group queue for now (something I was formerly very opposed to) because it's not like we're getting any new game modes anytime soon other than the three slight variations on team deathmatch that we have now.

But if and when you actually deliver real diverse game modes, and we don't allow users to select the game mode they wish to play, then you'll need to provide a way for players to designate one mech per game mode so they are dropping in a mech appropriate for whichever game mode they end up in. Or provide a dropdeck selection interface (similar to private lobby mech selection) in the game lobby sort of like we do in CW) so they can select an appropriate mech for the mode.

Because when we have real game modes with diverse roles and specific functions, we'll need that. And players designating or selecting an appropriate mech for the mode allows us to remove actual mode selection to alleviate the matchmaking issue without taking away the ability for players to bring a relevant to whatever mode is presented without sacrificing the quality of the gameplay dynamics unique to each game mode nor reducing the mechlab to a pointless endeavor if we can only build to a least-common denominator that can half-way work in every mode.

[Jman5]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just a thought that is just a MAYBE atm.

What if we kept all group sizes, allowed a few solo players.

Then we make game mode random in group queue. If we could do that and limit group queue creation at least some what more, if not 1/1/1/1 than perhaps 2's as some have suggested.

Speaking as someone who does a lot of solo queue, I would happily let myself get slotted into the occasional group queue game whenever there's that odd number match up. This would also open up the potential for 11-man groups.

[Russ Bullock]

PharmEcis, on 03 September 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

While I agree with what Bunny has stated, I'm concerned by your comments. Why am I concerned? Simple. Your replies in this thread show me that you already have a formed opinion. Those who have trashed or disparaged what has occurred you have basically belittled. Those who make comments that support your opinion are praised. That's not right.

Although I dislike large drama filled thread that do not add to the conversation it is untrue to say I have made up my mind. If you look at some of my latest responses you will see signs that I am already digesting what people have been saying and I am coming up with alternative thoughts that might help but keep what people desire.

[EmperorMyrf]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just a thought that is just a MAYBE atm.

What if we kept all group sizes, allowed a few solo players.

Then we make game mode random in group queue. If we could do that and limit group queue creation at least some what more, if not 1/1/1/1 than perhaps 2's as some have suggested.

Yes perhaps removing all odd sized groups would help - although the group size of 3 would be tough to get rid of.

I'd be very ok with this. Also the introduction of solo players would allow for 11-man groups.

[JohnnyWayne]

When I have to build bigger groups to compete with these bigger teams around, I also need the means to do that.

This means an updated LFG tool with a freetext input where I can state my intentions, langauge and I also need to see the tier level of all the players in the LFG tool as long as they have opted in that their tier is publically shown.

[BlazeOn]

Lets give it another try.

[Maerawn]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just a thought that is just a MAYBE atm.

What if we kept all group sizes, allowed a few solo players.

Then we make game mode random in group queue. If we could do that and limit group queue creation at least some what more, if not 1/1/1/1 than perhaps 2's as some have suggested.

Yes perhaps removing all odd sized groups would help - although the group size of 3 would be tough to get rid of.

Solo players should have the option to join the group queue to fill teams, and smaller groups 2-3 mans should have the option to load into the solo queue so people showing friend sthe game arent getting rofl stomped...

[East Indy]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just a thought that is just a MAYBE atm.

What if we kept all group sizes, allowed a few solo players.

Then we make game mode random in group queue. If we could do that and limit group queue creation at least some what more, if not 1/1/1/1 than perhaps 2's as some have suggested.

Yes perhaps removing all odd sized groups would help - although the group size of 3 would be tough to get rid of.

A small step like that is definitely worth trying.

Question: do you have data on how many parties in group queue select fewer than all 3 game modes?

[Mogney]

I worry that at a solo player or two in a group drop would really increase the odds of that team getting stomped.

[Russ Bullock]

EmperorMyrf, on 03 September 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

I'd be very ok with this. Also the introduction of solo players would allow for 11-man groups.

True I hadn't thought of that.

[jay35]

Dr Tachyon, on 03 September 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

I worry that at a solo player or two in a group drop would really increase the odds of that team getting stomped.

Doubtful. 11 carry 1 in group queue is easy compared to the 1 carrying 11 we used to get from the old Elo-based matchmaker in solo queue. =P

[Maerawn]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

True I hadn't thought of that.

Russ it should be an option for more experienced pilots. and the pilot should have to elect to be included in the group queue after having played a certain number of matchs so you dont have a noob wondering into the group queue solo

And like i said let 2-3 mans the option to play in the solo queue so people introducing friends to the game arnt playing against 12 mans

Edited by Maerawn, 03 September 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

I Zeratul I, on 03 September 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Different perspective.

Can we have an option to pug in group queue?

It could decrease wait times and make those gaps easier to fill.

This is a good idea in my opinion.

It also fits nicely with the ideas in the thread that the link in my sig links to. You should read it Paul.

I do not feel that limiting groups to four is necessary and would bring us back to where we were prior to the implementation of 2-10 player groups. I remember the player base requesting being able to play with friends and you gave us that. If there are five of us then one will miss out.......

I have no complaints about match maker, game quality or wait times. Usually find a game quickly, matches vary in quality, but have been a lot better since PSR.

I can see where you are coming from with the four player teams coupled with 1/1/1/1, but do not feel it is needed. At least not yet.

One thing we could do, if players would agree, is to do a test run for the proposed possible change. But will enough people get onto the test server ? Or run for one week on the live servers.

[jay35]

Since removing game mode selection opens a can of worms and probably requires more work down the line when we get more game modes that necessitate distinct, role-based builds, perhaps we can start with giving solo players the option to opt into group queue?

Like JMan said above, I would also be willing to do that to help the matchmaker fill out odd-numbered groups and match teams faster. Heck, I'd probably prefer my solo dropping to be a group queue filler sometimes.

Perhaps this could be an option under LFG or something as well?

Maerawn, on 03 September 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Russ it should be an option for more experienced pilots. and the pilot should have to elect to be included in the group queue after having played a certain number of matchs so you dont have a noob wondering into the group queue solo

And like i said let 2-3 mans the option to play in the solo queue so people introducing friends to the game arnt playing against 12 mans

Good thoughts! Agree with this as well.

Edited by jay35, 03 September 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Russ Bullock]

As you can see I am willing to try and keep the any group size thing around a while longer if we make a few other changes.

1) possibly allow solo's to opt in - so long as it doesn't pull to many solo queue should still perform well.
2) game mode selection likely needs to be random or the voting we once had. In other words all three available - this becomes even more important and would actually encourage us to add a 4th mode.
3) This one is your home work : reduce the jig saw pieces by allowing more restrictions in group creation - something better than the 3 of any weight class we have now - atm too many groups of 2, 3 and 4 ALL contain 3 heavies and so on. Go with 2 max until you slip into groups 9+?

Stepping away for the time being.

[Maerawn]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

As you can see I am willing to try and keep the any group size thing around a while longer if we make a few other changes.

1) possibly allow solo's to opt in - so long as it doesn't pull to many solo queue should still perform well.
2) game mode selection likely needs to be random or the voting we once had. In other words all three available - this becomes even more important and would actually encourage us to add a 4th mode.
3) This one is your home work : reduce the jig saw pieces by allowing more restrictions in group creation - something better than the 3 of any weight class we have now - atm too many groups of 2, 3 and 4 ALL contain 3 heavies and so on. Go with 2 max until you slip into groups 9+?

You could allow solo players who opt in to launch in either the solo or group queue, that why it doesnt impact the player level of the solo queue...

And what ever happened to instead of 3/3/3/3 the min max weight restrictions so there isnt a jigsaw, and you match just tonnage..

This way if you have a 3 man of direwhales, a 4 man with a average of 275 tons, and then a 2 man of 50 tons.. that's groups of 625, and then find 3 solos or a 3 man that then brings the average tonnage to withing 75 of the opposing team

Then teams are then off my the tonnage of one TBR or OR1

and lastly, we should do away with game modes for group queue cause its all just flavor of deathmatch anyway

Edited by Maerawn, 03 September 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[Asaru]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just a thought that is just a MAYBE atm.

What if we kept all group sizes, allowed a few solo players.

Then we make game mode random in group queue. If we could do that and limit group queue creation at least some what more, if not 1/1/1/1 than perhaps 2's as some have suggested.

Yes perhaps removing all odd sized groups would help - although the group size of 3 would be tough to get rid of.

I definitely think we should give this a try. I'm open to messing around with the Group system over the next couple of weeks and see what combos work best(yea know science).

Edited by Asaru, 03 September 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[Jman5]

Maerawn, on 03 September 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Russ it should be an option for more experienced pilots. and the pilot should have to elect to be included in the group queue after having played a certain number of matchs so you dont have a noob wondering into the group queue solo

The way I see it, it should be based on matching teams well. You wouldn't want to put some high rated solo guy into a group game of casual players and vice versa.

I do agree that it would probably be a good idea to be an optional check mark.

Edited by Jman5, 03 September 2015 - 03:46 PM.

[Pjwned]

Russ Bullock, on 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just a thought that is just a MAYBE atm.

What if we kept all group sizes, allowed a few solo players.

Good, good...

Quote

Then we make game mode random in group queue. If we could do that and limit group queue creation at least some what more, if not 1/1/1/1 than perhaps 2's as some have suggested.

Does it really have to be random? Can you not just add a 3rd option for "not preferred" in game mode choices so that people can weigh down modes they don't like as much but would still play for a good match? This would give the matchmaker more flexibility than it has now while still letting people choose to avoid modes they don't want to play, which I'm sure PGI remembers how important that is to a number of people.

I guess random modes in only group queue would be less of a problem than the last time game mode choice was practically removed, but it seems pretty ridiculous to leap from the current implementation to NO CHOICE AT ALL DEAL WITH IT (in the group queue).

Quote

Yes perhaps removing all odd sized groups would help - although the group size of 3 would be tough to get rid of.

That just seems like more of a pain in the ass to deal with than it's worth.

Edited by Pjwned, 03 September 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[Triordinant]

Maerawn, on 03 September 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

And like i said let 2-3 mans the option to play in the solo queue so people introducing friends to the game arnt playing against 12 mans

We fought for years before we finally got a solo-only queue where no groups of any size are allowed. It's currently the best performing queue in all of MWO. Most of us would quit if that was taken away.

The best possible solution is 3 queues: solo, casual groups (2-3 man) and Units (4+ man).