1142 replies to this topic

[Thumper3]

Psychorat, on 25 February 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

What I see both in solo play or group play, it is like tossing a coin:

-first possible outcome: Win 12:2 or 12:4...good to great score each and stomp the other team. Other players on our side where usefull/worked together/direwolf on our side did not hide behind a rock when a locust used machine gun on it and instead exploded it with an alpha strike...

-second possible outcome: Loose 2:12 or 4:12 ... lame score... died stupidly because everyone hid behind a rock or ran in circle trying to run away when a locust sprayed machine gun on them leaving big fatlas and king crab alone for the picking by other team... the rest of the story should be predictable...

Very odd, not at all my experience in either que.

I'm Tier 3 still as well, and the vast majority of games in both ques are either very close wins or loses (9-12, 12-9, 11-12, etc) with a pure stomp being as rare as a unicorn and only a handful of 12-6/6-12 games.

I've been playing almost 3 years now and while I was vocal and skeptical of the PSR system when announced. Especially since developing it delayed Phase 3 for CW. However, I have to admit I noticed a change and it was a change for the better.

No system will ever be perfect, but PSR was a big improvement.

[Vonbach]

End the 12 man pubstomp fest. It needs to die or the game will die.

[Biclor Moban]

After the Tier system was introduced I was very unhappy with the way matches went down, really lopsided. After about 2 -3 weeks that seemed to smooth out. I progressed to from Tier5 to Tier 3 and It continued to be balanced got about 1/4 to 1/3 up the Tier 3 scale Suddenly maybe 3 weeks ago the games got all lopsided again what is going on?

[C E Dwyer]

A lot of the failure of the MM isn't the M.M its the people in it.

Give you a quick example of what happened today.

A T1 player in this thread complaining about how bad the M.M is and having to carry people, was in my team today, playing a hunch back, in public queue.

Guy rushes forward in frozen city to the crest by the tunnel, doesn't wait for the slows to catch up, charges over the crest, alpha's once from his damage score and dies in a hail of focused fire.

The M.M simply cannot deal with people being idiots, doing suicide rushes no matter what the team is, the MM assumes each person is bringing their best game, so when people don't try, its going to fail

[Mole]

My only complaint about the matchmaker currently is the fact that if I want to play with just like one or two of my buddies I stand a pretty good chance of getting thrown into a match where my team is composed of small groups like mine and the enemy is a 12-man premade all on teamspeak and in their metamechs. Obviously the 12-man is going to usually stomp mostly anything that isn't another 12-man. I've honestly just stopped playing in small groups simply because of this reason. There is no fun to be had in trying to play with one or two of your friends and just getting creamed over and over again by some 12-man premade. My suggestion? Maybe there's some sort of fallacy in my logic here, but what if we made it to where matchmaker only put 12-mans vs. 12-mans and groups of any other size get thrown into the smaller group queue? I don't know if there are enough 12-mans going at any given time in this game to support that kind of matchmaking but when I am playing in group queue it sure feels like there are. On the subject of solo queue, the only thing I have to say is that solo queue feels good right now. I don't have to wait long for matches, regardless of what weight class I am trying to play, and the match quality seems pretty good too. You get your occasional roll, but it doesn't happen with anywhere near the kind of frequency that it used to happen before PSR was implemented. I don't feel like there is anything about solo queue that needs to be changed. Funny thing, I noticed, actually. I tend to get on those horrid losing streaks when I am playing a mech that I am bad in and not carrying my weight on the team. When I am playing well, and contributing at least like, say, 300 damage to my team, my team does phenomenally better and we win far more often. Too many people want to complain about their team sucking because matchmaker and not hold their own poor performance accountable for their bad experience. I'm not saying that it's ALWAYS your fault, because I've been in matches where I got 7 solo kills and 1000+ damage and my team still lost. Not much you can do about those. But you don't always lose because your team was just a bunch of terribads.

[Thumper3]

Mole, on 04 March 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

My only complaint about the matchmaker currently is the fact that if I want to play with just like one or two of my buddies I stand a pretty good chance of getting thrown into a match where my team is composed of small groups like mine and the enemy is a 12-man premade all on teamspeak and in their metamechs. Obviously the 12-man is going to usually stomp mostly anything that isn't another 12-man. I've honestly just stopped playing in small groups simply because of this reason. There is no fun to be had in trying to play with one or two of your friends and just getting creamed over and over again by some 12-man premade.

I play outside my unit with some RL friends on occasion, just the 3 of us. In the last 3 weeks I can count on one hand how many times we went up against a full 12 on the other side. Even 10 mans are unicorns, with most being small groups or the occasional 6-8 man, and it goes both ways with those larger groups of 5 and 6 being on our side as well.

It's unfortunatle that some people like yourself seem to see them more often, but it's important to remember that this does not represent the majority.

Mole, on 04 March 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

My suggestion? Maybe there's some sort of fallacy in my logic here, but what if we made it to where matchmaker only put 12-mans vs. 12-mans and groups of any other size get thrown into the smaller group queue?

That's how it used to work, because people would complain about the same thing you are. So they split the ques just as you are suggesting.

Trouble is, large numbers of people don't want to join units. You can see it in tons of threads, people constantly push back against joining units, they just want to PUG......and complain when other people play as a team in a team based game. Well, 12 mans are what units run. So there came a time when 12 mans would sit in the que waiting for a match for over 20 minutes. Certain nights there just weren't enough. At these dark times some less scrupulous units would then drop in smaller groups to try to "sync drop", some would just suicide if they didn't sync up.

So they deicded to change it to SOLO and GROUP ques, if you're in a group, no matter how small, you fight other groups.

CW helped because most 12 mans are usually running in CW unless it's a ceasefire or maybe they are just practicing or some other reason.

Basically what people want is MM to be 'perfect', they don't want to lose and they certainly don't want to lose because they were disadvantaged (either for real or just in their head). However that's impossible. The only way for MM to be perfect with a perfect match everytime would be if we ONLY had 12 mans. When you want to be able to play in 2s, 3s, 5s, 7s, 8s, etc.......and have the tonnage restrictions so a team can't bring 12 Assaults.......and you want to be able to play with a reasonable wait.......the MM is going to have to make some compromises. It has to deal with the players, groups, and mechs that there are at any given time.

Plus, why oh WHY is the boogy man of TS still brought up as this massive boon that co-ordinated teams have? The game has VOIP, there is no reason why any group of 12 of any makeup isn't working together on comms as a TEAM. Sure, a dedicated 12 man will have the benefit of familiarity of the other pilots and builds, they will work more seamlessly together and have tried and true tactics. But that's to be expected in a complex, team based game such as this, and I have seen random players beat dedicated 12 mans.

Edited by Thumper3, 04 March 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[Mole]

Thumper3, on 04 March 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

Plus, why oh WHY is the boogy man of TS still brought up as this massive boon that co-ordinated teams have? The game has VOIP, there is no reason why any group of 12 of any makeup isn't working together on comms as a TEAM. Sure, a dedicated 12 man will have the benefit of familiarity of the other pilots and builds, they will work more seamlessly together and have tried and true tactics. But that's to be expected in a complex, team based game such as this, and I have seen random players beat dedicated 12 mans.

Is that a serious question? You do realize that a whole bunch of our singleminded PUG brothers and sisters have their VOIP switched off, right? And that an even larger number of them do have VOIP on but just don't care to use it? When you have a 12-man on TS everyone on there is there because they want to communicate and be a team. Every person on that TS is active and contributing to their team's intel. In a PUG, you're lucky if you get more than two people with an active mic and even luckier if you get 5 people on your team to listen to the guy with the mic.

[Thumper3]

Mole, on 04 March 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Is that a serious question? You do realize that a whole bunch of our singleminded PUG brothers and sisters have their VOIP switched off, right? And that an even larger number of them do have VOIP on but just don't care to use it? When you have a 12-man on TS everyone on there is there because they want to communicate and be a team.

Of course it's a serious question, maybe a rheotrical one but a serious one people should exaimne. And yes, I can see the icon's for who has VOIP turned on and who has it off, and it is mostly on from what I have seen. Which means yes, they are ignoring it. And when it's on and no one talks, it's no different from turning it off.

The question is QUITE serious, because when people are complaining about voice comms being OP and that's the reason they lose......and yet they willfully refuse to use the voice comms they are given.....one has to throw up their hands and ignore their cries.

It's like meeting a man on the street who complains about being hungry, handing him a package of lunch meat and having him look at you and whine "You're not going to open it and feed it to me?". We all have voice comms, use it or don't.....but don't complain that those who use it win.

Sure, everyone on a TS channel is there to communicate and work as a team......so should every PUG. It's a team game, there are 11 other pilots out there, if someone doesn't want to play as a team.......this is the wrong game for them, sorry.

_{edited for spelling}

Edited by Thumper3, 04 March 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[Mole]

Thumper3, on 04 March 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

Sure, everyone on a TS channel is there to communicate and work as a team......so should every PUG. It's a team game, there are 11 other pilots out there, if someone doesn't want to play as a team.......this is the wrong game for them, sorry.

Well good, I agree. Now go tell them that, for goodness sake, because I would love to coordinate with them.

[Simbacca]

Problem is MM is linked to match score. And there are so many ways to add to match score (for the XP to lvl up pilot and the C-Bills) that have no bearing on skill what-so-ever. Things like scouting and spotting come to mind. I am a solid T3 lvl (even though I have played A LOT) - due to team carrying I was carried into T2 and been stuck there - with MM expecting me to carry teams. And part of the reason why I was carried up, was I completely avoided skirmish mode (when we could unselect game modes) - which also tended to have very different type of players compared to conquest mode.

[jaxjace]

Almost 50 pages in and we cant figure this out.

[mad kat]

Biclor Moban, on 29 February 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

After the Tier system was introduced I was very unhappy with the way matches went down, really lopsided. After about 2 -3 weeks that seemed to smooth out. I progressed to from Tier5 to Tier 3 and It continued to be balanced got about 1/4 to 1/3 up the Tier 3 scale Suddenly maybe 3 weeks ago the games got all lopsided again what is going on?

I found something similar when the tiers introduced i was straight into T3 which i thought was a little low initially but then thinking about it i hardly ever drive meta mechs and just have fun messing around with builds and driving locusts so it probably was right. I then Pushed for T2 and after 7 attempts to get into it, every time i moved over the threshold we lost, it was almost guaranteed. Anyway I'm now stuck in this tier and the games are crap and so imbalanced (close games are almost none existent) I want to be back in T3. Over the last week I have barely killed a thing and levelling a crap mech (currently a vindicator) seems to make things far worse. By far the majority of PUG queue games are stomps and even now i seem to find people rambo'ing far more than any other time and the teams just split up too much until the inevitable.

But i have found a build that works well for it and when i play in group queue its as if the problem has mostly vanished still had mostly losses last night but the games were much closer. Yet even with the working and competitive build back in pug queue the story of oblivion continues. Kinda spoils any enjoyment really when you have a 20% chance of winning.

[Psychorat]

mad kat, on 07 March 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

I then Pushed for T2 and after 7 attempts to get into it, every time i moved over the threshold we lost, it was almost guaranteed. Anyway I'm now stuck in this tier and the games are crap and so imbalanced (close games are almost none existent) I want to be back in T3.

I'm pretty in the same situation, got tier 3 pretty fast while still levelling my first 4 mechas. While I do good with my few elites 'mechs, its a pain to gain experience on new aquisitions and 'mechs sizes I never played before. Got my first assault 'mech to try and lvlup after getting to tier 3 and man my ratio (match/kills) did take a huge drop (from 1.6 to near 1.1 with my tier lvl still increasing... witch is stupid...) loosing 80% of my matches and feeling like a jerk to the rest of the team (no assault doesn't play like light mechs ;P).

My best guess would be to adjust the tier gain and losses so it is possible to lose tier rating at the same rate or faster than we gain it... that way if someone is really not fit to an higher tier it would stabilise at the lower one and stay there. At this point it is almost impossible to loose tier rating in a significant way.

A second step would be to have a different tier rating for each 'mechs we own. While I might be a tier 2 light/medium 'mech pilot, I may be a tier 4-5 heavy and assault pilot... so when I get better with a specific 'mech I get to higher tiers with it, while enabling me to try and lvlup new 'mechs without getting owned each time.

My guess is that would solves most of the problems we face in matchmaking.

(and it is weird that when 1 light mech do all the capping winning the match for the other, he get less xp than another mech with more damage done and no capping at all...forcing all types of matches to play like a skirmish in order to gain some xp and c-bills.)

Edited by Psychorat, 07 March 2016 - 07:35 AM.

[Mole]

I remember when PSR got introduced it threw me into Tier 4 for no apparent reason and some of the players in my unit who are roughly of the same skill level as me into tier 1. There seemed to be no rhyme nor reason to what PSR you got initially assigned. I climbed right out of Tier 4, then promptly climbed right out of Tier 3, and now I'm climbing out of Tier 2. I don't want to act like I'm hot **** but I clearly belong in Tier 1. The point of this little rant; PSR is whack.

[Jon Gotham]

Vonbach, on 28 February 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

End the anti social/anti teamwork fest. It needs to die or the game will die.

Fixed.

[Mole]

Jon Gotham, on 08 March 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Fixed.

I've played many co-op teamwork games and all of them are plagued with this problem. Nobody wants to communicate unless they are in a premade group with their friends. There simply is no fixing this. Sorry.

[Wintersdark]

Mole, on 08 March 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

I remember when PSR got introduced it threw me into Tier 4 for no apparent reason and some of the players in my unit who are roughly of the same skill level as me into tier 1. There seemed to be no rhyme nor reason to what PSR you got initially assigned. I climbed right out of Tier 4, then promptly climbed right out of Tier 3, and now I'm climbing out of Tier 2. I don't want to act like I'm hot **** but I clearly belong in Tier 1.

whattier you were seeded in was based wholly on historical match data, and how much you'd played during the collection period was critical to that. People who hadn't played much inside that period where then seeded wierdly.

However, your whole rant above doesn't lead to you're conclusion below:

Quote

The point of this little rant; PSR is whack.

If anything, you should feel a little embarrassed, because your story above says it IS working just fine - it's been continually moving you towards where you should be. That's the system working. Seeding was limited by the data at hand, but the seeding quality doesn't reflect on the system whatsoever.

Now, the system DOES have problems, but none are noted in your post, only a poor grasp of logic.

[Psychorat]

Wintersdark, on 08 March 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

whattier you were seeded in was based wholly on historical match data, and how much you'd played during the collection period was critical to that. People who hadn't played much inside that period where then seeded wierdly.

However, your whole rant above doesn't lead to you're conclusion below:


If anything, you should feel a little embarrassed, because your story above says it IS working just fine - it's been continually moving you towards where you should be. That's the system working. Seeding was limited by the data at hand, but the seeding quality doesn't reflect on the system whatsoever.

Now, the system DOES have problems, but none are noted in your post, only a poor grasp of logic.

But it is almost impossible to adjust backward in the psr rating (from tier 1 to 2 to 3...) so in the end, everyone will be in tier 1 anyway... personnally, I like tier 3, and with some mechs I do begin to have a hard time here. but i'm still moving toward tier 2. Guess within a month or 2 max, i'll be in tier 2 and since I'm more into playing what is fun than what I should I'll have a really hard time there and will get owned every match with no way to get back.

So either make it harder to get in higher tier, or make the penalty higher...

and again, different psr ratings for each of our mechs should be great...

Beyond that, I believe the matchmaking works great, quite fast, groups with groups and all. Maybe have an option to put groups of 2 and 3 with the solo... and 4 and over with the groups matchmaking. But with the real skill of everyone correctly determined (and not simply ever increasing over time) there might be no need for any changes.

Edited by Psychorat, 10 March 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[Crockdaddy]

Vonbach, on 28 February 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

End the 12 man pubstomp fest. It needs to die or the game will die.

Are you serious? How dumb can you possibly be. In GROUP queue you FACE GROUPS. DERP. I weep for you. I hope you get more free trophies in your life.

For the record, running a full 12 in group queue can be rather rough with the tonnage restrictions. You get no assaults and often facing 4/5/ assaults. Not to MENTION your are grouped up with other GROUPS. Seriously try coordinating a little it isn't hard to do.

Besides I RARELY see 12 man groups running the the public queue.

[General Solo]

Psychorat, on 10 March 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

But it is almost impossible to adjust backward in the psr rating .............

A locust with a flamer and 4 machine guns will fix your problem

Swap the flamer for a med laser and it becomes a lil op.

The problem is how to drop psr without screwing over the 11 other guys.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 11 March 2016 - 07:33 PM.