1142 replies to this topic

[Hydrocarbon]

HARD restrictions like restricting number per weight class is horrible, and make matchups very difficult. It was still possible to get 6+ assaults with the old system.

Restricting the number of like-chassis is far more forgiving & prevents the main issue with "boating" a particular OP mech. Max 3 cheetahs, 2 dires, etc.

Even better is assigning psuedo-tonnage to mechs, such as treating a Stormcrow more like a 75 ton mech and an Orion more like a 55 ton mech. A Dire would be 120t and an Atlass 80t, etc. In a perfect world it would assign tonnage based on how you play with that mech and/or weight class, so terribads that take a King Crab with lurms would only add 50 tons to the mix.

[Void Angel]

LiGhtningFF13, on 31 October 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

In my case unfortunately not. I often got discos on my side. Thats also a sad part.

That's not normal - disconnects are the exception, not the rule.

[mad kat]

All i can say is the new psr is utter rubbish the previous matchmaker that had worked for what three years was much better.

This is all too common and regular now.

[Yozaa]

PSR seems about right to me

[Yozaa]

teamwork is OP is that bad?
PGI needs to make a teamwork tutorial me thinks
For example why focus fire, local numerical superiority and sharing damage work etc
The skill gap and low population are the problem, catch 22
cuz if the tiers were deeper there would be
no problem

Edited by Yozaa, 16 November 2015 - 01:30 AM.

[Void Angel]

mad kat, on 15 November 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

All i can say is the new psr is utter rubbish the previous matchmaker that had worked for what three years was much better.

What nonsense. The old Elo system wasn't working - that's why they made PSR in the first place! PSR's tier system fixes a few clear problems with the old system: like brand new players dropping against veterans, or long queue times for top (and bottom) ranked players. You're fooling yourself and scapegoating PSR - while there was some disruption, it's no different than an Elo reset after a major rebalance. It's inherent in the changing of a system, not a flaw in the system itself. No amount of random screenshotting or rose-lensed nostalgia makes PSR itself bad. At a minimum, it's no worse than Elo.

Edited by Void Angel, 16 November 2015 - 05:30 AM.

[mad kat]

Void Angel, on 16 November 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

What nonsense. The old Elo system wasn't working - that's why they made PSR in the first place! PSR's tier system fixes a few clear problems with the old system: like brand new players dropping against veterans, or long queue times for top (and bottom) ranked players. You're fooling yourself and scapegoating PSR - while there was some disruption, it's no different than an Elo reset after a major rebalance. It's inherent in the changing of a system, not a flaw in the system itself. No amount of random screenshotting or rose-lensed nostalgia makes PSR itself bad. At a minimum, it's no worse than Elo.

I disagree a lot of the 'fun' of this game vanished the moment PSR was introduced by and large games have become shorter and far more predictable early on. I do feel like i'm up against a general range of more skilled players now so you may argue working as intended, maybe that's my teir but all i see now is try-hards in meta mechs and cowards yet teams with all the co-ordination of a pissed heiffer.

Either way games were more enjoyable on the old system as it seemed less harsh and unforgiving in the solo queue all i see now are tryhards driving meta mechs and likewise the range of mechs being fielded is equally predictable.

This new System has actually forced me into my lights especially Locusts to actually get somewhere and have fun.

[Void Angel]

All of that is completely non-falsifiable opinion on your part - and even as such, you're confusing the dusruption of changing a system with a problem in the system itself. You're not even consistent with your internal reasoning; either you've got better players in your matches - and thus more coordination - or you're dealing with players who act like cowards and coordinate with the intelligence of an... angry cow? Anyway, you're committing at least two serious errors in reasoning here - post hoc, for example.

[L Y N X]

Speaking from my own experience with 10's of thousands of matches on the old ELO system that tried to balance win to losses, and now hundreds of matches in the new PSR system, I find that after starting in upper tier 3 and now in upper tier 2, that my matches are generally more competitive and that both teams are generally speaking more often made up of experienced player and some times even experienced player execute what could only be described as noobish behavior, but in general, I find the matches more competitive and a lot closer in results. Shorter in duration usually. I also like the new weight limits for the team queues. I just wish the CW element would evolve more rapidly than it has...

I think a better name for the new system would be if PGI replaced SKILL with EXPERIENCE, for I do not think the PSR represents a player's skill, but because of the game mechanics of the PSR system, I think it would be more APTLY named PLAYER EXPERIENCE RATING (PXR). All players are capable of reaching PSR 1, some quicker than others based on skill, playstyle, competitiveness, and motivation, but combined it represents a players experience more than it does skill.

Edited by 7ynx, 16 November 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Have to agree here to some statements. MWO needs better tutorial guides. Not only how to handle a mech and it's weapons. You also need to teach them to work in a group, like tactical maneuvers or focusing fire on certain targets etc.

[mad kat]

Void Angel, on 16 November 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

All of that is completely non-falsifiable opinion on your part - and even as such, you're confusing the dusruption of changing a system with a problem in the system itself. You're not even consistent with your internal reasoning; either you've got better players in your matches - and thus more coordination - or you're dealing with players who act like cowards and coordinate with the intelligence of an... angry cow? Anyway, you're committing at least two serious errors in reasoning here - post hoc, for example.

Yes. That's kinda my point the outcome of games now usually swings to the extremes hence the stomps above which are now far more common than on the old system and almost the norm. Consequently your either on a team with skilled players who work together, communicate and know what they're doing or your on with a bunch of casuals playing after they've staggered in from the pub who ignore all the other blue arrows on screen and get obliterated in minutes.

What i'm trying to say is balance has all but disappeared now i personally get very few games that are actually close in score or last a good proportion of the time limit as i did previously. Now whether or not that's as a result of change of system as you say or whether its a result of an ELO reset and adjustment is difficult to say but the fact remains games are now far more predictable and lop sided and most of the time the kill/score difference is significantly bigger on the new system.

[Void Angel]

You haven't understood me. My problem with your original post was that you made two contradictory claims: on the one hand, you're playing with better players; yet on the other hand, you're playing with bad, cowardly players who have the tactical intelligence of farm animals.

You're not understanding the issue here at all: the choice isn't whether the things you personally feel you are seeing resulted from a flaw in the system compared to Elo (there isn't one; tier 1 players not fighting newbies isn't a flaw, and that's basically the only difference) or is simply the disruption from changing systems - the answer is "no." The things you perceive as happening in your games are the result of meta changes that have been going on for some time. The change in system probably encouraged players to go toward meta builds during the seeding process, but it hasn't kept them there.

In other words, regardless of the subjectivity of what you perceive in your match results, the PSR system cannot be the culprit - there's no mechanism! The changes to the system simply aren't that great: essentially the new system allows players to rise more on individual performance (geared toward teamwork) instead of being shackled to the team's performance as a whole. You still tend to lose PSR when you lose, and you gain when you win.

The problems you're describing, however, predate the PSR system. It's the same long-range, pinpoint-damage meta that's been problematic all through the development of this game. The PSR system may have brought that to the fore (if so, giving players a viewable Elo Tier would have done the same,) but it did not create it. Players have learned that the best (only) weapons to compete with are the long-range Gauss/vomit meta, and the hide-n-snipe, refuse-to-leave-cover mentality that generates is independent of any rating system beyond the end-of-match results.

Edited by Void Angel, 17 November 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[L Y N X]

Void he gave his opinion, you can disagree with it, but you cannot change it unless he allows it changed... Try out Stephen Covey training sometime... Seek first to understand and then to be understood. The other way does not accomplish much.
Cheers,
Lynx

Edited by 7ynx, 17 November 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[Roadbuster]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 September 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Quality of the average match in solo queue is still p!ss poor. You still see one team with 2-3 guys doing all the work carrying 9 scrubs who barely know how to walk, while another team has 10-12 "average" players and proceeds to steamroll the former. Is that what you understand as a "quality balanced match"?

As much as it hurts me to say this, but the above statement is the truth about what's going on.

If you are an above average player (W/L ratio higher than 1,0?), it seems that the matchmaker tries to drop your W/L to the "perfect balance value" of 1,0 by forcing you to play with people who clearly don't play in the same league.

Ok, everyone has good and bad matches, and it's no problem to make up for some mistakes of teammates if people are roughly equally skilled.
But with the way PSR works (too much emphasis on W/L and not on real individual player skill), it happens that players who should, and WANT to play at a lower tier, suddenly climb up and either get beaten or carried without getting the chance of PLAYING the game.

It's a situation where highly skilled players get tired of carrying and losing matches because of "unbalanced" matchmaking, and lesser skilled players get tired of getting destroyed very quick or just following the team without doing much.
In short. It doesn't help anyone.


That being said, I'm sure that more restrictions would improve matchmaking. But at the same time, restrictions would put players in a spot where they have to decide which people they want to play with, which would be very bad.
Having to play another mech to be able to play with friends, while annoying, would be less of a problem imho.

I don't know how group matchmaking works right now, but big groups of 4-12 players, should have at least an equally sized and skilled group matched against them.
It's no fun to drop as duo with a non-communicating patchwork team, against a competitive 12-man.

TL.DR.
PSR is mixing up tiers because the factor "individual skill" is very small compared to the factor "win/loss".
This, and the difference between dropping in a small group or big group, leads to unballanced matches.

[Bolter01]

Whats going on with smaller 'groups'?

I have played as a two man 'group' for the past year and now it seems near impossible to get a match..?!?
I have no desire to group up with other members, I/ we (teir 3/4) simply enjoy to play together in PUG matches.

So whats changed and will it be possible to enter matches promptly as two man group?

[Simbacca]

Roadbuster, on 19 November 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:

TL.DR.
PSR is mixing up tiers because the factor "individual skill" is very small compared to the factor "win/loss".
This, and the difference between dropping in a small group or big group, leads to unballanced matches.

My problem has been I have literally been carried by various teams to where I am now (plus I played a lot, I and I mean a lot of matches). Time and again, Match Maker now expects me to carry said team when that is not my ability.

All I know is, even though I have done the worst on the winning team the PSR always goes up. On losing if I break that 400 damage level, even though I was the worst on the team PSR stays the same.

The faulty assumption being made is increased play will always lead to increased skill. However, in my case (and no doubt various other players) have reached their preferred (after all we do play other games) or max skill level.

Edited by Simbacca, 29 November 2015 - 02:49 PM.

[Chainwax]

As a former member of an elite group, restricting weight/chassis doesn't do very much. We'd all run silly lineups like all hunchbacks or all cicadas and still hit 10-20 wins per loss. Sometimes half of us would be trying out some stupid setup and we'd still win 90% of our games.

Now I either play with 2-4 friends or I join big groups of casuals. I'm not near the tryhard or the jerk to say "hey, we got 3 people in here who get excited when they break 100 damage in a match, how about kicking them so we don't get stomped by 12 stacks?"

Having a setting to restrict match making to 4 man premades or 8 man premades would be amazing. It'd be worth waiting an additional few minutes. When im playing with 1-3 friends we're discussing whether to just afk or suicide whenever we see a 12 stack of elites on the other team because honestly we have less than a 1% chance to win.

Also I would personally love to solo queue into the group queue. I'm Tier 3 (if that matters) and I'm not really enjoying solo queue as much as I should because this is basically the breakdown of solo queue play:

Everyone run to center of map and ball up. Wait for the "solo yolo's" from each team to get themselves killed. One team will have about a 4 kill advantage after this and push to win.

In team games people run in alone 90% less because they have to wait for their friends to leave the game anyway. Also people push, flank, and otherwise engage the enemy much quicker.

I'm both surprised and excited to see dev's contemplating restricting 12 man pub stomps. In free-to-play games usually 10% of players account for 90% of the income, so there's always at least a little catering to the try-hard top tier units. Also to note that I've had some very fun games with a 4 stack from an elite unit on my team or the other.

The worst option is to let things remain as is and let the pubstomps continue. The second worst option is to restrict friends from playing together. The best would be let people decide if they'd rather wait a little longer in queue or risk wasting 10 minutes getting destroyed/talked **** to by a tryhard unit.

Oh and also I have a large group of steam friends that don't play this game and I don't attempt to recruit because I really doubt they'd get past the learning curve before quitting due to pubstomps.

Edited by Omgawd, 09 December 2015 - 03:12 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Generally good, but I think we will need that Solaris arena mode soon, to keep the new Steam population happy.

[DoRkcHoPs]

Solo Queue:

Though you say the differential is only 145. I feel like solo drops are always always always one sided. One way or another it always ends up being 12-3 or 12-6 and only very rarely is there a match where its 12-11. I think the biggest problem is the assaults spawn furthest away from any objective and either get flanked and torn up by the lights, mediums, faster heavies or get to the fight so late that it doesn't even matter anymore. For instance assaults always (ALWAYS) spawn the furthest away in Alpine so by the time they travel the 2000m to the fight its either already over because the other team had faster assaults or they get ganged up on by lights circling around.

Solo Queue Adjustment:
Weight class alone shouldn't be a determining factor firepower should also be considered.


Group Queue:
This one is impossible to balance and I feel like it is currently at a decent place except the wait time but there is one improvement that would benefit both group and solo queue that would actually make the wait time seem way shorter.


Partial Group/Solo Queue Pain easement:
Add a lobby screen. Once you click play you should enter a lobby and watch as groups fill up be allowed to chat between everyone etc. This would 100% improve the queue wait. Right now you click play and you sit there looking at a screen that you can do absolutely nothing with. People in your unit can be chatting and you cannot do anything about it and you cant carry over the group chat until the match begins. 6 minutes of looking at Searching feels like 20minutes. 6 minutes in a lobby feels like 1 minute.

[Xelos]

I bought founders pack when game came out and upon seeing how large groups could fight mainly single players I quit the game. I came back to game recently testing it out as I enjoyed the MW universe and customization. I was having fun duoing with a buddy for awhile until we had a few matches where the enemy had 9+ players in a group and we had a few duos and mainly singles. Looks like I'll be back in a few months to check if this has been changed.

Edited by Xelos, 13 December 2015 - 10:46 AM.