57 replies to this topic

[Zolaz]

When is PGI going to do some changes to CW to make it fun again. After the last round of changes from Tuk, CW has become a ghost town. Does PGI just not recognize it? Does PGI have too many irons in the fire that one of their interns cant make some more changes to CW?

I dont know what is going on with CW and PGI, but it looks like nothing. CW is unfun and unrewarding even compared to PUG and group queue. Where is my PGI team with a "Mission Accomplished" banner behind them?

[Kira Onime]

CW Beta3 said to start around October.

[J0anna]

One of the fundamental changes PGI needs to make, is they need to change their line of thinking. They want CW to be "end game" or "hard core mode". To be successful in CW, you need more patience (wait longer for matches), more organization (arranging drop decks, coordinating drops) and need to spend time practicing what works and what doesn't. Certainly more effort than just dropping solo. Yet despite all this, and despite the fact that most other games make "end game" or "hard core mode" more rewarding for their players (giving them something to work towards), PGI deliberately decided to make CW less profitable than dropping in solo or group que.......

[Lily from animove]

Moenrg, on 04 September 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

One of the fundamental changes PGI needs to make, is they need to change their line of thinking. They want CW to be "end game" or "hard core mode". To be successful in CW, you need more patience (wait longer for matches), more organization (arranging drop decks, coordinating drops) and need to spend time practicing what works and what doesn't. Certainly more effort than just dropping solo. Yet despite all this, and despite the fact that most other games make "end game" or "hard core mode" more rewarding for their players (giving them something to work towards), PGI deliberately decided to make CW less profitable than dropping in solo or group que.......

I think what PGI missed to do properly is to advertise the benefits of ranking up in a faction. Most people probably don't know that there are free mc and mechbays to get from faction loyality levels.

[Lostdragon]

Moenrg, on 04 September 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

One of the fundamental changes PGI needs to make, is they need to change their line of thinking. They want CW to be "end game" or "hard core mode". To be successful in CW, you need more patience (wait longer for matches), more organization (arranging drop decks, coordinating drops) and need to spend time practicing what works and what doesn't. Certainly more effort than just dropping solo. Yet despite all this, and despite the fact that most other games make "end game" or "hard core mode" more rewarding for their players (giving them something to work towards), PGI deliberately decided to make CW less profitable than dropping in solo or group que.......

One of the things they talked about way back in the day was having the chance to get special salvage tied to a specific manufacturer, basically a weapon or other piece of equipment with quirks. I think that was a cool idea and would have liked to see it implemented as part of the CW reward structure. Then I would have a reason to play CW. As it is I have more fun in more matches while earning more cbills in the solo queue.

[BARBAR0SSA]

This is pretty much hands down the reason I've cancelled any package orders I've had. There's nothing to do in MWO, the new maps are really nice and glad they are doing that and learning. Hopefully them hinting at the tutorial being examples of future AI and content leads to some good stuff for CW.

Like exiting mechs and stealing an enemies mech...that would make light mechs kinda fun in CW if all 4 of your mechs were dropped off in your base at the start and you had to keep an eye on them along with defend.

[Khobai]

These are the changes id like to see to CW:

1) get rid of large groups entirely. Make max group size 4 with 1/1/1/1 enforced. Max one group per team. PGI has already suggested doing this because balancing large groups is pretty much impossible and any game with a large group in it deteriorates into a pugstomp.

2) integrate ALL current gamemodes and maps into CW. Assault, conquest, and skirmish queues should just be fully integrated into CW and should no longer be seperate queues. All games played should contribute to CW. And by reducing the number of queues you reduce the wait times considerably too.

3) assault, skirmish, conquest would be like "recon" gamemodes for unlocking planets for your faction to attack. Once a planet is unlocked it could progress to the next stage (see below)

4) add a new game mode: dropship defense. when attackers first land on a planet they need to defend their dropship in order to progress to the invasion stage. If the attackers fail to defend their dropship then they must repeat this gamemode until they successfully defend their dropship. If they succeed then the next game played in the same slot becomes an invasion game and winning an invasion game would gain control of that slot of the planet.

5) add actual role warfare to the game so lights and mediums have more important roles to play in CW. The easiest way to do this is pilot skill trees: have at least three pilot skill trees and players have to choose one of them before each match (the three trees could be like: recon/pursuit, strike/assault, command/support)


These changes would accomplish THREE major things. First it would make the game more accessible to casuals and solo players by getting rid of pugstomping. It would also shorten queue times considerably. Secondly it would add much more variation to the gamemodes in CW making it way less repetitive. Youd have 6 potential gamemodes instead of only 2 gamemodes. Lastly it would add actual role warfare to the game which has been needed for a long time to help lights and mediums.

Edited by Khobai, 04 September 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Odium]

They have to make it easier for casuals to play CW or it will not last.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I don't play CW because the payouts are bad for such a long wait time.

I feel like they've abandoned CW.

[Spheroid]

planet flipping is too hard now. Unless you have two 12 mans you are not taking a planet in one cycle.

Flipping needs to be easier, become multi-cycle or some other mechanic. Winning a planet feels good for an evening's worth of work. That is largely absent now for many factions.

They need to allow ghost drops again in the old style so that faction population can matter in war. A.I. can plug the player gap since it supposedly exists now.

Edited by Spheroid, 04 September 2015 - 08:44 AM.

[MechaBattler]

They want CW to be the hardcore end game. But it's more exclusive that way. Meaning less players queue for it. Whatever players do queue up, are divided up into 6 factions on the IS side and 4 on the Clan side. That doesn't really make a lot of sense if you're going to make it "hardcore" and more exclusive.

[TLBFestus]

Khobai, on 04 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

These are the changes id like to see to CW:

1) get rid of large groups entirely. Make max group size 4 with 1/1/1/1 enforced. Max one group per team. PGI has already suggested doing this because balancing large groups is pretty much impossible and any game with a large group in it deteriorates into a pugstomp.

I agree with this, with one specific provision. You can set up groups of ANY size in private matches. Surely all the hardcore, try-hard,leet, L2P, GG out, meta players have premium time accounts don't they?

Let them fight in their highly organized groups against other highly organized groups and find a way for it to impact CW. Seriously, that's the way to go. They don't want us PUGs defiling their battlefields, even though they need a large, healthy solo population, they shouldn't have to actually associate with us, and quite frankly many of us feel the same way in return.

[Cyberiad]

The biggest issue I find with CW is the ridiculously long wait times. This could be solved even with low populations numbers by having CW matches that are ongoing 24/7. When you want to play a CW match, it simply puts you into one of these matches. Planetside 2 is a good example of this.

[Johnny Z]

The fewer attack lanes mentioned will improve things in a few ways. There are other easy improvements like removing the planet finder list so that players can actually look at the nice map again.

There are other additions to this game like premium/high c-bill content that are needed, galaxy map logistics, high end unit content. All large subjects and work together to make each other better.

[Kodyn]

Not white-knighting, but I would like to point out that we do have the new Comstar mini-events, and Paul is clearly very actively working on and thinking of ways to revitalize CW, right now.

They are far from ignoring it.

[Lyoto Machida]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 04 September 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

I don't play CW because the payouts are bad for such a long wait time.

I feel like they've abandoned CW.

RAISE THE DAMN CW REWARDS!!!

[Leone]

I pretty much only play CW because I find it more enjoyable. It is true, with the new map layouts separating the team's drops further matches take longer, but the new payment system also reduced cbill rewards, so it's not like solo queue makes any more money than CW.

~Leone

[IraqiWalker]

Moenrg, on 04 September 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

One of the fundamental changes PGI needs to make, is they need to change their line of thinking. They want CW to be "end game" or "hard core mode". To be successful in CW, you need more patience (wait longer for matches), more organization (arranging drop decks, coordinating drops) and need to spend time practicing what works and what doesn't. Certainly more effort than just dropping solo. Yet despite all this, and despite the fact that most other games make "end game" or "hard core mode" more rewarding for their players (giving them something to work towards), PGI deliberately decided to make CW less profitable than dropping in solo or group que.......

Another part of that "end game" set up, that they flubbed from day 1 is gating.

As it is, and was first introduced, there is no minimum requirement to jump into CW. You can get a poor scrub who has never played a single minute of the game to sign up, and jump into a CW match immediately, in crappy trial mechs.

We had been complaining for ages that the NPE was the rough equivalent of throwing children into a wolf pit, and then they made CW, where Elo did not exist, and there is no MM, meaning that top tier teams can face bottom tier players. Which made it worse, and caused a lot of people to be turned off CW.

Every other game that has an end game mode like this, has gating. They need it here, something like a minimum of 100 matches, and all 4 mechs in the drop deck must have all their basic efficiencies unlocked.

Khobai, on 04 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

These are the changes id like to see to CW:

1) get rid of large groups entirely. Make max group size 4 with 1/1/1/1 enforced. Max one group per team. PGI has already suggested doing this because balancing large groups is pretty much impossible and any game with a large group in it deteriorates into a pugstomp.

Khobai, I generally like your posts, but you are wrong on all parts of the spectrum with that point. There is literally no difference between me dropping in a 12 man, or queuing up with 3x4mans. We're still going to work, and operate as a 12 man. Not to mention that CW is the mode where team work, and organization are supposed to count. Meaning that even those dropping solo, need to be able to work with a team, and not play like the anti-social idiots we know and loathe, in the solo queue.

Khobai, on 04 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

2) integrate ALL current gamemodes and maps into CW. Assault, conquest, and skirmish queues should just be fully integrated into CW and should no longer be seperate queues. All games played should contribute to CW. And by reducing the number of queues you reduce the wait times considerably too.

That increases the number of queues, instead of reduce it. Remember, you have those queues, PER planet, PER mode. Unless you want the inconsequential matches of the public queue to somehow affect CW, without people actually queuing up for a planet. Which is not a good thing. Ever.

Khobai, on 04 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

3) assault, skirmish, conquest would be like "recon" gamemodes for unlocking planets for your faction to attack. Once a planet is unlocked it could progress to the next stage (see below)

4) add a new game mode: dropship defense. when attackers first land on a planet they need to defend their dropship in order to progress to the invasion stage. If the attackers fail to defend their dropship then they must repeat this gamemode until they successfully defend their dropship. If they succeed then the next game played in the same slot becomes an invasion game and winning an invasion game would gain control of that slot of the planet.

I'm all for adding more modes, and team dynamics. However, unlocking more planets is not a good idea. It will exacerbate the problem of population shifts. A faction with a larger population than another, will be able to gobble it up even faster than they can do now. Need I remind you that in CW 1 with the progress set to 1 planet a day, Davion practically devoured Liao, and the clans still carved their way to Terra? Simply because of population. If we had the 3 planets a day rate, there would not have been a Capellan Confederation by week 3 of CW, if not sooner.

Khobai, on 04 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

5) add actual role warfare to the game so lights and mediums have more important roles to play in CW. The easiest way to do this is pilot skill trees: have at least three pilot skill trees and players have to choose one of them before each match (the three trees could be like: recon/pursuit, strike/assault, command/support)

I'm not sure what the trees have to do with the role a mech is already designed to play, but hey, Role Warfare, I'm all for more of that.

TLBFestus, on 04 September 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

I agree with this, with one specific provision. You can set up groups of ANY size in private matches. Surely all the hardcore, try-hard,leet, L2P, GG out, meta players have premium time accounts don't they?

Let them fight in their highly organized groups against other highly organized groups and find a way for it to impact CW. Seriously, that's the way to go. They don't want us PUGs defiling their battlefields, even though they need a large, healthy solo population, they shouldn't have to actually associate with us, and quite frankly many of us feel the same way in return.

While that attitude has been expressed by some group players. That's not the case with the majority of us, and you can't have people stop playing the game, because you refuse to organize.

Seriously, what's the excuse now? We have LFG, we have VoIP, We have faction chat. We literally have every tool available to us short of a big red button that kills the enemy team before they drop.

Most of the unit players don't hate solo players being on the field with them, or however you put it.

However, we should all hate the anti-social, special snowflake, rambo morons, who decide to run off on their own, ignore any request to work together, and cost their team the match.

When I can hop onto the TS3 server of a faction I don't even play as, and get together a 12 man group of pugs to organize, well enough that we actually beat a 12 man on our second match with them, you have no excuse complaining about organized units, playing in a mode designed specifically for organized play.

[Khobai]

IraqiWalker, on 04 September 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

There is literally no difference between me dropping in a 12 man, or queuing up with 3x4mans.

thered be a max of one group of upto four players per team. sync dropping multiple groups in the same game would be impossible. And by combining all the queues into CW there would presumably be enough players that it would be very difficult to drop a group of four and a bunch of solo players at the same time and have them end up in the same game.

Quote

That increases the number of queues, instead of reduce it. Remember, you have those queues, PER planet, PER mode. Unless you want the inconsequential matches of the public queue to somehow affect CW, without people actually queuing up for a planet. Which is not a good thing. Ever.

No it would reduce the total number of queues. Youd be removing the following 6 queues: solo assault, solo conquest, solo skirmish and group assault, group conquest, and group skirmish. The only queues youd have left would be CW queues.

The benefit of making the max group size 4 with a max of one group per game is that you dont have to have seperate queues for groups anymore. CW drops would just consist of primarily solo players with a max of one group of upto 4 players per team.

Less queues means less player segregation and less wait time. It also means more players involved in CW and hopefully each faction will have a minimally viable population then.

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However, unlocking more planets is not a good idea.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by unlocking planets. Basically the way it works now when you capture planet A you can then capture any planets that planet A is linked to. With my idea, it would work the same exact way, except before you can attack any of the planets that planet A is linked to, youd first have to engage in a serious of "recon" missions to unlock the link. The recon missions would be standard assault, conquest, skirmish gamemodes.

So when you capture planet A, and planet A is linked to planets B and C, instead of automatically being linked to those planets, you'd first have to engage in recon missions on either planet B or C to establish a link to planet A before you can start the process capture them.

This would limit attack routes more and force factions to plan out their attack routes better.

Quote

I'm not sure what the trees have to do with the role a mech is already designed to play, but hey, Role Warfare, I'm all for more of that.

Pilot trees would help add new roles to the game besides just doing damage. Roles like scouting, command, etc... Right now the only real role we have is damage.

Quote

Meaning that even those dropping solo, need to be able to work with a team, and not play like the anti-social idiots we know and loathe, in the solo queue.

A lot of those problems are due to a lack of proper command tools. PGI mentioned in the past the idea of having a command wheel which would allow a commander to quickly issue orders to friendly mechs on their teams. But also they mentioned adding hotkey macros to the game so you could quickly communicate vital information to your teammates and have it automatically input variables like your target or your current grid location.

Plus one of the aforementioned pilot skill trees would be a command skill tree whos entire role would be to help coordinate your team with special command equipment and modules.

Edited by Khobai, 04 September 2015 - 03:47 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Kodyn, on 04 September 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

..... and Paul is clearly very actively working on and thinking of ways to revitalize CW, right now.

I nominate THIS for the most frightening statement of the year.