57 replies to this topic

[fat4eyes]

Lily from animove, on 04 September 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

I think what PGI missed to do properly is to advertise the benefits of ranking up in a faction. Most people probably don't know that there are free mc and mechbays to get from faction loyality levels.

You get just about the same amount of stuff just doing the event challenges most of the time. And you don't have to wait 15 minutes for every match.

[Yokaiko]

Kilo 40, on 05 September 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

where did I say there was a solo mode?

as for your point, I know what your point is, the problem is that it's just not true.

It was a better, not to mention higher populated game before PGI caved to the solo whiners, I've always played both solo and teamed. The "constant stomps" were mostly screamers on the forums, I NEVER saw them in game, not dropping solo and not dropping teamed.

The population never recovered from the last time PGI tried to make this game World of Stompy Tanks" like I said they HAVE tried this, and it failed dramatically.

fat4eyes, on 05 September 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

You get just about the same amount of stuff just doing the event challenges most of the time. And you don't have to wait 15 minutes for every match.

If you buy all of the mech packs, last one you had to have R3 on preorder to get the grab bags. Which was all the same to me I was on international travel the entire time anyway.

However, Rank 6 isn't hard to get to, and that is two free mechbays.

[Kilo 40]

Yokaiko, on 05 September 2015 - 10:55 PM, said:

It was a better, not to mention higher populated game before PGI caved to the solo whiners

better for who? for groups sure. too bad that are only about 10% of the player population. as for your claim that the game had a higher population then, show your math.

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I've always played both solo and teamed. The "constant stomps" were mostly screamers on the forums, I NEVER saw them in game, not dropping solo and not dropping teamed.

so first you claim that group players are "better" than solos, but now your saying there was never groups stomping pugs. so you're either a liar, or have amnesia. or perhaps you have an agenda. maybe there is a reason you are desperate to keep large groups in the game. I mean, if I had an artificially inflated PSR/ELO I'd probably be desperate to keep pug stomps going too.

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The population never recovered from the last time PGI tried to make this game World of Stompy Tanks" like I said they HAVE tried this,

again...show your math.

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and it failed dramatically.

it failed because russ caved to a few very vocal players who harassed him day and night on twitter. and wouldn't you know it, those vocal players who got what they wanted don't even play anymore.

[bar10jim]

Khobai, on 04 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

2) integrate ALL current gamemodes and maps into CW. Assault, conquest, and skirmish queues should just be fully integrated into CW and should no longer be seperate queues. All games played should contribute to CW. And by reducing the number of queues you reduce the wait times considerably too.

This will never be implented, as all matches, by definition, would have to be Clan vs IS. An imbalance in the queues would cause one side or the other to have unacceptable wait times. Not to mention that trying to level up an IS mech would be extremely difficult going against strictly clan mechs.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Phase 3 drops later in the year. Russ said in the last town hall that it kept getting delayed because he kept tacking on features to end up making CW better.

Here's hoping it turns CW from a lifeless husk to a fully functioning adult.

[Yokaiko]

Kilo 40, on 05 September 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

better for who? for groups sure. too bad that are only about 10% of the player population. as for your claim that the game had a higher population then, show your math.

Ten % AFTER they spent a year actively punishing Units for groups, the justification at the time was 81% of players WERE forming groups.

Kilo 40, on 05 September 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

so first you claim that group players are "better" than solos, but now your saying there was never groups stomping pugs. so you're either a liar, or have amnesia. or perhaps you have an agenda. maybe there is a reason you are desperate to keep large groups in the game. I mean, if I had an artificially inflated PSR/ELO I'd probably be desperate to keep pug stomps going too.

What makes you think that I have an "artificially inflated Elo" my Elo was basically set the first weekend they had it, remember they did a solo only tournament? I was top twenty in three weight classes for two days until I decided it wasn't worth the sleep deprivation. Since then I didn't play for over a year and didn't come back until CW came out, so if you see me in the pub queue it because I'm leveling a mech, I haven't played with more than a 4 man in the group queue in I don't know how long, definitely over a year.

Kilo 40, on 05 September 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

again...show your math.

Ok so the Tukyaad event, 17,000 players, there were over 70,000 founders.....those are PAYING players.

Otherwise PGI doesn't release player number, because I'd wager their concurrency numbers are horrid

Kilo 40, on 05 September 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

it failed because russ caved to a few very vocal players who harassed him day and night on twitter. and wouldn't you know it, those vocal players who got what they wanted don't even play anymore.

It failed because it sucked, and even then the solo whiners STILL screamed and moaned about getting "pubstomped" for every loss, we used to laugh about it, because we had a 4 man ON THEIR TEAM but it was still the big bad 4 man on the enemy that caused the loss, not the guy with XL LRM Atlas that managed all of 80 damage or the dude with a gauss raven (remember them)

So yeah, Russ ....in fact PGI in general....deserve EVERY beating they take, they haven't done a very good job, there just isn't much better.

Edited by Yokaiko, 05 September 2015 - 11:26 PM.

[Kilo 40]

Yokaiko, on 05 September 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

81% of players WERE forming groups.

It's like you like in an alternate reality

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What makes you think that I have an "artificially inflated Elo"

I didn't say you did. I just wondered aloud about why some people are desperate fro large groups to not go away, and gave one possible reason for it.

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Ok so the Tukyaad event, 17,000 players, there were over 70,000 founders.....those are PAYING players.

I didn't play the Tukyaad event. Yet I still play regularly. many people avoid tournaments/events all together. pointing to the number of people who played one weekend out of the year vs the number of founders is just....well it's stupid, and shows nothing.

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Otherwise PGI doesn't release player number, because I'd wager their concurrency numbers are horrid

my wager is that you have no clue what the numbers are, but you want to be horrid becaue you think it would prove your point.

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It failed because it sucked

again....it didn't fail. it was killed off prematurely in order to silence a vocal minority of player who were trolling and harassing russ daily over it. the fact that you insist on ignoring that fact while calling all pugger "whiners" is just laughable.

[Yokaiko]

Kilo 40, on 05 September 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

again....it didn't fail. it was killed off prematurely in order to silence a vocal minority of player who were trolling and harassing russ daily over it. the fact that you insist on ignoring that fact while calling all pugger "whiners" is just laughable.

No actually, I didn't, I pug far far more often than I team up, in fact, since my unit is currently Wolf (which annoys me to no end) I was dropping solo in CW all morning 50% win ratio, EVEN after running into a 228 9-10 man four games in a row. Never saw a twelve man, and twice its was 5-6 man teams + pugs on both sides.

Who I decry are the solo whiners that 1) Refuse to so much as turn their VioP on, much less join a team, no matter how easy PGI makes it. 2) scream and cry and howl that TEAMS ARE RUINING THE GAME.

Its crap, there is no solo, its NEVER taken more than a couple minutes to team up, now with LFG tool AND in game VoIP we are STILL having this discussion, which is mindboggling.

[Kilo 40]

at this point I'm just going to assume you're drunk and move on. good day.

[Yokaiko]

Kilo 40, on 06 September 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

at this point I'm just going to assume you're drunk and move on. good day.

I'm drunk because I don't agree with you. Got it.

[IraqiWalker]

Khobai, on 05 September 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

The fact CW has no matchmaker is part of the whole problem. Its why you see roflstomps happen so often in CW. The only way to ensure CW has proper matchmaking is to disallow large groups.

You're flat out wrong there. Especially considering that most of the stomps in CW, happen with the groups within the range you want to implement. Most groups in CW are in the 4-6 range.

Cw should NEVER not have large groups. It's the whole point of CW, and units. Look at Warthunder, and World of Tanks. Both games you cited. Warthunder has zero competitive scene, and most players drop solo, or in 2 man teams. The games are still not balanced. Because there is no elo to save bad pilots from running into good ones. The matchmaker works on the tier of your plane.

In WoT, only the public queue has restricted group sizes. While competitive play has no restriction. Competitive play is also done with teams at max player count. Not 3 players per team.

You want balance in CW? Put a proper tutorial, and gating. However, the real way to balance CW, and in fact, this game, is to change the player base. I can honestly say that about 40% of the player base needs to grow up, and learn to work with a team. I can't count the number of times where I run into players who stubbornly refuse to follow orders, because "I do what I want", or bring terrible builds, because "F*** meta". You don't like meta? Fine, at least bring a decent build.

What's worse is that their egos are so massive, they think they're doing something good when they shoot themselves, and their teammates in the foot. Then proceed to lose to a half-as**d team, and cry "big groups are the problem". No, the real problem is a player base full of child-like mentality.


Maybe I'm getting jaded, but honestly, CW is supposed to be a game mode where the stakes are high, where teammwork is important, and where groups count for something. You can't go into the mode designed with group play in mind, and tell the groups to get out.

With the way CW is envisioned, there can't be a matchmaker, because it's a first come first serve system. You can't have a matchmaker implemented, when they queues are controlled by the players, instead of automated. So there can't be a matchmaker in a system where we queue up for the planets ourselves.

Plus, limiting the group sizes has been proven to not balance anything at all. All it does is drive more of the player base away from the game. As I mentioned earlier. You can't stop me from synch dropping with 11 of my unit mates. We'll not even group up. Just drop solo together, on the same planet.


In fact, I have mentioned this several times in the forums. I ask PGI to make CW solo only, with no premades, for at least 4 days. Let's see if there's any real change in what happens. Completely remove groups from the equation. I can guarantee that nothing will change, and it will still be the same.

Because the real problem, and cause for stomps, and unfair matches, is the player base, not the game mechanics.

Khobai, on 05 September 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

I see nothing wrong with that. In fact one of the other things Russ has discussed is reducing max unit size to 50-100 players. So units that can have 40+ people on at once can no longer completely dominate CW.

Besides if the primary motivation for why your unit's members play is to form large groups and pugstomp then were better off without them anyway.

Again you're wrong. The motivation isn't to pugstomp, but to play a coordinated game. People who don't want to coordinate, really shouldn't be welcome in this game. we're all better off without those special snowflake rambo idiots. Not to mention that the problem isn't the Unit's total size, or how many active players they field. It's the fact that right now, with CW having no way of balancing out numbers, the FACTION with the most players, wins. Period. So limiting unit size is not only a bad move. It still changes nothing.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 06 September 2015 - 06:43 AM.

[Talorien]

Khobai, on 04 September 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

2) integrate ALL current gamemodes and maps into CW. Assault, conquest, and skirmish queues should just be fully integrated into CW and should no longer be seperate queues. All games played should contribute to CW.

Amen!

Since the group queue MM is already struggling, it makes perfect sense to merge the two.

Edited by Talorien, 06 September 2015 - 06:57 AM.

[Khobai]

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Again you're wrong. The motivation isn't to pugstomp, but to play a coordinated game. People who don't want to coordinate, really shouldn't be welcome in this game.

So basically youre saying solo pugs, which make up the vast majority of players in the game, shouldnt be welcome?

You pretty much just proved my whole point about why players like you are detrimental to the game...

If you had your way then there would be no game because the majority of players would be driven off and the small elitest portion left would be unable to support the game.

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Again you're wrong. The motivation isn't to pugstomp, but to play a coordinated game.

I already said that adding new command tools that make coordinating with pugs easier should be a priority.

You shouldnt have to play with people you know in order to coordinate. You should be able to coordinate with pugs.

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Cw should NEVER not have large groups. It's the whole point of CW, and units.

Except CW would be completely dead if only large groups played it. You are living in a fantasy world. The bleak reality is there arnt enough large groups to support the amount of players needed to run as many factions as there are. Hell even with the pugs a lot of the factions are grossly underpopulated...

The only way CW can survive is if solo players participate. It was a mistake to cater CW to large units because its pugs that keep CW going, not large units. To encourage more solo players to play CW they need to get rid of the pugstomping by large groups and apply matchmaker to CW to make the matches more fair.

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In fact, I have mentioned this several times in the forums. I ask PGI to make CW solo only, with no premades, for at least 4 days. Let's see if there's any real change in what happens. Completely remove
groups from the equation. I can guarantee that nothing will change, and it will still be the same.

Of course it would change. If you got rid of groups you could apply matchmaker to CW. Assuming the matchmaker actually works, the teams would become more balanced. Large groups are the whole reason CW cant have a matchmaker in the first place. Hence large groups are the problem.

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Plus, limiting the group sizes has been proven to not balance anything at all.

Only because we didnt have a properly working matchmaker before. Limiting group size without a working matchmaker isnt going to do anything on its own. You still need the matchmaker to balance the teams.

Edited by Khobai, 06 September 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Odium]

IraqiWalker, on 06 September 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

With the way CW is envisioned, there can't be a matchmaker, because it's a first come first serve system. You can't have a matchmaker implemented, when they queues are controlled by the players, instead of automated. So there can't be a matchmaker in a system where we queue up for the planets ourselves.

Then they need to do away with the pick you planet crap.

Everybody needs to fight everybody (clan vs clan, IS vs IS, clan vs IS) and you should not be able to pick who and where you fight.

I understand what they were going for but by letting people pick fights it is really lame. Some factions just pick on weaker ones and some just avoid the stronger ones.

CW should function more like normal drops just with the same CW fights we have now and match similar group sizes and elo vs each other.

[Kjudoon]

The uncomfortable penny of truth drops. A bad solution to a worse problem. Planetary buckets are a real problem because player base is too small and fragmented to handle what we have.

Or what needs to be in order to create cw in a form worth playing.

[Kjudoon]

Sudden epiphany that may have some relevance to it. I know it is going somewhat on the rumble strips of what cw was intended as a free for all but it might.... MIGHT help.

Give factions 3 fronts to pick from. These fronts use psr ratings and create a low, average, high skill battlefront. The planet would vary. In otherwords the player doesnt pick the planet the faction does because n it sends the player to the planet under attack in their skill level. Sometimes it will be clans sometimes IS depending on the population.

Now put down the pitchforks. This is a stopgap solution designed to give newer and pug players a SAFER environment to experience CW and hopefully find it to their taste. Something not present now. I know you group pros like your little thunderdome and the empty stands but wouldnt you prefer a farm league?

Again... This is about cultivating new talent and grow the population.

[WANTED]

Until the system is fleshed out more, I fully support channeling all players at one or two planet targets. The community is not large enough yet to support what is currently in game.

[Odium]

WANTED, on 06 September 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Until the system is fleshed out more, I fully support channeling all players at one or two planet targets. The community is not large enough yet to support what is currently in game.

This