38 replies to this topic

[D A T A]

Well guys, i am a great fan of CW, and probably one of the players with most LP earnt in the whole world. I love it so much that i used to spend hours planning which drop deck to use on which map, clan and IS.

Well, your idea to give IS 260 tons is so riddicolous and out of any logic, so stupid (and if i write what i should i get banned) that i refuse to play CW if this madness remains online........you managed to lose the support of one of the biggest CW fans around. And if you managed to make me dislike CW (and i thought it was impossible) imagine how many players you are losing.

even 240 vs 240

CLAN DROP DECK IS UNDERPOWERED

i know that 99% of mwo players do not agree......but hey, 99% of mwo players have no idea on how to play CW.

This is what you do when an excellent player uses OP IS mechs.










this happens because clan laser duration an heat output is OVERNERFED

1) timber and crow nerfs must be removed

2) cerml must lose 0.2 duration OR gain 50mt range OR lose 1 heat

3) cerll must gain 100 mt range and lose 1 heat
(wtf? IS erll on raven 4x, awesome, blr 1s, tdr5ss, on1p, ctf1x, enf 4r has more range, less heat, less duration than clan erll............how did you manage to make IS lasers better than clan ones?)

4) clpl must lose 1 heat


Bang Bus BLR1g xl395 3lpl+4ml with 10 ad 20% quirks feels OP

BJ1x with 6ml+2mpl feels like a 2 ac20 jager that runs at 116 kph and weights 45 tons: it is OP

IS erll that reach 911 meters and have burn time of 1second feels OP (BLR 1s)

Jager 3uac5 that shoots like a 6 uac5 direwolf feels OP

Thunderbolts that can tank as stalkers and shoot 3lpl non stop feel OP

Wolverine with 4 ll or 3ll+2ml that shoots as much as a stalker feels OP

Edited by IL MECHWARRIOR, 06 September 2015 - 03:35 AM.

[plaguebreath]

Come on they will fix it when they put out of beta MWO, wait a minute ...... well at the moment it's more important the 1/1/1/1 groups because no one want to play cw with you, You not left any enemy to kill for us ! Seriously talking I agree on the remove nerf stuff if they want to make little competitive this damn cw.

[Kodyn]

I'm hoping this thread is sarcastic, because not a single mech you mentioned besides the Thud could ever be considered OP...

You do realize that most of them run IS XLs, which are a pretty easy death for a good shot, which most clan teams contain in droves...

You do realize that the IS has just as few really viable choices for CW as clans, if not less? You do realize that clan durability is the real gamechanger here, not the weapons? Yeah, IS have some good weapons systems right now, but that's ok, because aside from a few mechs that can run STD and still field good damage, we're mostly made of paper compared to clan mechs.

Been playing CW all night, and any clan team that can focus fire and has at least a halfway decent DC can wreck an IS deck that isn't nothing but Thuds and STKs. If we as IS want to guarantee the most even matches, we'd need to take nothing but those 2 mechs, plus Firestarters, otherwise, we're voluntarily gimping ourselves.

I'm not saying it's impossible for non meta IS decks to beat clans, but we pretty much have to rely on their DC making bad calls, their team being a pug mix, or just dumb luck.

I can't possibly take you seriously if you can deny all these things...if PGI released numbers showing that IS just dominated clans tonight with their MASSIVE drop decks of 260 tons, then you'd have ground to stand on, maybe, but from how the night's gone thus far, I think the chances of that are infinitesimal. The only way Davion is taking a planet away from Falcons tonight is ghost drops, because despite wins about 40% of the time, overall, we've been beaten back consistently, and have almost no hold on it.

You can go with the argument that all IS or all Davion pilots suck or something I guess, but then that just gives us an excuse for having a handicap...whether you want to blame the players, or the mechs, it all works out the same. In order for there to be balance, the IS and clans need to be treated differently.

[Nik Reaper]

So... OP you do realise that most of those mechs , like the thunderwub and the LL Wolverine and even the stalker to some extent only work the way they do due to quirks, the same quirks that are to be changed in ~3 weeks and, if PGI's postion at that time is the same as now, there will not be any more 40~50% buff to dps weapon quirks, so if you consider that yes IS will need the extra tonnage.

Till then? I guess they could scale it back to 250t and keep the clans 240t.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 05 September 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[Kaargh]

Quote

I'm hoping this thread is sarcastic, because not a single mech you mentioned besides the Thud could ever be considered OP...

So, well, what mech is op for u? Only to compare the situation.... Because tbr are op, and now u can carry 4, no xl, no heat. Wlv too, or Blr, at least. Jaeger... XL, yes, but 4 second to switch your ct from an armor to a t-bone (slurp!)...
So, tell us, we're listening... Balance is for weight, not for mwo.

Edited by Kaargh, 05 September 2015 - 01:59 AM.

[Better Call Saul]

He's posted proof of the ability of IS mechs to output far more damage over time than Clan Mechs.

That is the argument here, that a well thought out IS drop deck can produce farm more damage over time than Clans.

The responses thus far have no proof, just standard forum whinging with no credible backup.

[Sardauker Legion]

R U serious?

[Kodyn]

Better Call Saul, on 05 September 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

He's posted proof of the ability of IS mechs to output far more damage over time than Clan Mechs.

That is the argument here, that a well thought out IS drop deck can produce farm more damage over time than Clans.

The responses thus far have no proof, just standard forum whinging with no credible backup.

He's posted proof that he knows how to farm damage in some overquirked IS mechs. I've also seen clan players that have defeated me in CW with numbers in those ranges. What's his point?

I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's clearly pretty good, just that he has no clue about game balance in any way, shape, or form.

And I don't need to provide proof of my arguments lol, if they were so far off base, why do the devs keep constantly trying to find ways to balance clans vs IS? Until PGI produces data showing that the IS just dominate the clans in CW, there's no reason to doubt what I know to be true.

And as someone said, the IS overquirks, which are the ONLY thing making the mechs you mentioned even viable, nevermind op, are very likely to be removed, or toned down by a lot. This conversation isn't about quirks, it's about clan vs IS weight balance.

[BSK]

Congratulations Il Mechwarrior, these damage outputs were of course only possible due to your motivating words for your fellow matchmates. Your unmatched skills in coordinating even first time cw players, your bravery standing always in the first row and catching shots and as a whole your charismatic genious is like a lighthouse for all mechwarriors ..

[Ghogiel]

Nothing new in this thread anyway, fact is it's far easier to break 4k with IS in CW than it is in Clan. There is no argument about that, been like that forever.

Low Elo screbs embarrassing themselves trying to comment about balance and how they know the game better than IL hahah.

People who can't consistantly replicate performance like that and get carried all day and daily should listen and learn.

Edited by Ghogiel, 05 September 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[Nyuuu]

Glad that I am not the only one noticing that, thought I was about to go crazy.

Was playing nothing but clan for the first 6 or so months of CW, constantly exposed to the "clan op crowd" before I first switched to IS.
And damn, the dps you get is just hilarious compared to clan mechs, in addition to the much reduced exposure on many IS mechs to get full alphas. Surgically cutting apart hostiles at 550m with the wvn 6k while hardly overheating is something nothing on the clan side can even closely replicate.

Kodyn, on 05 September 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

You do realize that the IS has just as few really viable choices for CW as clans, if not less?

Less viable choices on IS compared to clans? wut?
To go with the truly all around good ones not considering niches:
Clan: Timberwolf, Eben Jaguar, Hellbringer, Stormcrow, Arctic Cheetah, maybe the Warhawk
IS: Stalker, Battlemaster, Banshee, Thunderbolt, Wolverine, Blackjack, Firestarter, Raven, maybe the Dragon
And now with even more options for IS to add those up...

Btw insane round there Mechwarrior, think that is the third 5k game I have seen so far since CW release.

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 04 September 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

May I ask what your Dropdeck was?

[SixstringSamurai]

Kodyn, on 05 September 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

He's posted proof that he knows how to farm damage in some overquirked IS mechs. I've also seen clan players that have defeated me in CW with numbers in those ranges. What's his point?

I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's clearly pretty good, just that he has no clue about game balance in any way, shape, or form.

And I don't need to provide proof of my arguments lol, if they were so far off base, why do the devs keep constantly trying to find ways to balance clans vs IS? Until PGI produces data showing that the IS just dominate the clans in CW, there's no reason to doubt what I know to be true.

And as someone said, the IS overquirks, which are the ONLY thing making the mechs you mentioned even viable, nevermind op, are very likely to be removed, or toned down by a lot. This conversation isn't about quirks, it's about clan vs IS weight balance.

Did you even look at the kills and assists? I don't think you did. If he was farming damage one of those numbers would be a lot lower.

[Chados]

This has to be a troll. In the Marik event we were seeing IS weapons of all classes far outranged by Clan lasers, and they were on defense to boot, piling advantage on advantage. Clan weaponry is lighter and more powerful than every one of their IS equivalents and Clan mechs take more punishment and stay in the fight longer, mech for mech. Their XLs don't blow your mech when you take a hit to the side torso. In the lore the IS came with more to balance the fact that Clan tech is better. There's a reason for the old joke about a Steiner recon lance being four Atlases. A bigger IS weight limit gives the IS a chance to compete, at least.

[Tarl Cabot]

Looking at the damage output listed, IL Mechwarrior carried hard in those games. And if he or someone else was commanding and majority of the unit were listening and following directions, just dang.

Just to add, isn't the major difference between drops, be it solo, group or CW, is communication, or the lack there of that has a greater bearing on the match outcome?

Basically, remove IL Mechwarrior and the Clans would likely have prevailed, as he had the most damage and the most kill shots. And to generate that type of damage he was going for the side torsos and/or arms as those are the only locations Clans utilizing ammo based weapons can store the ammo, and even though case prevented it from transferring the rest of the armor and internal structure in that location was destroyed.

The Clans simply failed to prioritize their kill list, or simply failed to realize who should be the primary target.

IL Mechwarrior, as previously requested, what was in your deck and how did you play each mech vs how the rest of the team played?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 September 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[D A T A]

of course you can ask
the order in which you chose mechs is important

hellebore springs attack is

wolverine6k xl280 4ll (range cooldown)
jagermech dd xl 235 3 uac5 345 ammo (range cooldown)
jagermech dd same build
wolverine 6k xl300 3ll 2 ml (cooldown range)


grim portico defense (and defense only)

blr 1g xl395 3lpl+4ml (range range)
tdr 5ss std 300 7 mpl (range cooldown)
BJ1x xl295 6ml+2mpl (range range)
BJ1x same build


vitric forge
2 wvr 6k 3ll 2ml
2 jager dd 3uac5

Emerald
tdr 9se 3lpl std 275
jager dd
jager dd
bj1x


my playstyle is just go ahead, Always shoot, the more you wait the more you lose opportutity to farm scrubs, that's why i hate to regroup and wait, i just go and shoot all CT.
enemies tried to push, but i maged to hold them pretty well.....as soon as they tried something they got rekt, and scared...than some pugs stole my kills
unfortunatelly my 190 ping cripples my performance, otherwise i would do way more kills, as i do in eu server.....btw 22 kills 4300 damage seems good to me

ah btw if you need to see how OP inner sphere is at range, i have a screen in which i do 3500 damage WITH ONLY 1 MECH ON BOREAL VAULT

blr 1s xl400 4 erll (911 range)

if someone asks, i post it

Edited by IL MECHWARRIOR, 05 September 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Fire for Effect]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 04 September 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

Well guys, i am a great fan of CW, and probably one of the players with most LP earnt in the whole world. I love it so much that i used to spend hours planning which drop deck to use on which map, clan and IS.

Well, your idea to give IS 260 tons is so riddicolous and out of any logic, so stupid (and if i write what i should i get banned) that i refuse to play CW until this madness in online........you managed to lose the support of one of the biggest CW fans around. And if you managed to make me dislike CW (and i thought it was impossible) imagine how many players you are losing.

even 240 vs 240

CLAN DROP DECK IS UNDERPOWERED

nope aint the case how do I know?
1) pretty much anyone would take clan mechs if able to choose...
2) look at the map...

case closed

[Nik Reaper]

Right, but without the range and heat generation quirks in the 15~25% the only thing IS can have is more weight so more armor and a few big weapons more, the sensor changes don't really seem to matter much as most competant players don't need the red box and fire in the center mass at long ranges.

[Idealsuspect]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 05 September 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

of course you can ask
the order in which you chose mechs is important

Dont worry most of IS pilots are newbies or trial pilots also thats why CW are quite close when pugs meet pugs ^^

But yea IS dropdeck are more efficient FOR PLAYERS ABLE TO BUILD I MEAN WITH THEIRS OWN BRAINS ( it mean 30% of mwo players base ) also IS quirks are valid just enjoy and clan have always hald team with ECM, IS team from far not also even too..

I know you want MWO became a balanced game for pro gamers but you have to understand that MWO will never be a game with PGM specially with steam release....
One ecm should make pugs lose or win yea its like they are totoally blind...

Edited by Idealsuspect, 05 September 2015 - 12:05 PM.

[VorpalAnvil]

The average player of this game is pretty bad, and the average IS player is even worse.

[Aresye]

Better Call Saul, on 05 September 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

He's posted proof of the ability of IS mechs to output far more damage over time than Clan Mechs.

That is the argument here, that a well thought out IS drop deck can produce farm more damage over time than Clans.

The responses thus far have no proof, just standard forum whinging with no credible backup.

So far none of the top players I know have ever gotten above 5k damage in Clan mechs.

I get it, they have IS XL engines and other things to (somewhat) balance their quirks out, but if there's one thing I absolutely hope for in this upcoming balance overhaul, I hope it's that laser duration is consistent between both sides.

Here's the problem. When PGI initially wanted to balance Clans, they wanted to do it in a way that required more skill to use. That was said by Paul way before Clans being released, and was reaffirmed by Paul in a Devlog just prior to the Clan Invasion. Regardless of how you feel about skill disparity, that WAS the goal for balancing the Clans and IS, which ended up being a huge mistake because (surprise), while average to below average players might be balanced out between each other, good players were incredibly OP because they could fully take advantage of their better aim to get full damage. Now we see an opposite effect, where the IS was quirked in order to perform similarly to Clan mechs, but in a way that required LESS skill to use. Now you see what happens when a solid player such as the OP switches to IS.

Perhaps most players don't see stuff like this, but here's an example that's personally happened to me on more than a few occasions:

- I'm cored in a Clan mech battling a cored IS mech.
- Both our cores are cherry red.
- The quirked IS mech is behind cover.
- I have my crosshair set waiting for them to poke out again.
- IS player pokes out.
- I fire first dead center on the IS mech's CT.
- WHILE my lasers burn, the IS mech returns fire to my CT.
- I get killed first, immediately interrupting my laser burn, and the IS player lives.

I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter bull%#&!